Trudeau explains why he's banning assault guns

[Maccabee]

Have you done any such training when training to be a security guard?

No. However, I did went through police academy, and currently work for the department of corrections. The firearms course was rather basic and most departments around here only require requalifications once a year.

 

[Rich2018]

No. However, I did went through police academy, and currently work for the department of corrections. The firearms course was rather basic and most departments around here only require requalifications once a year.

Same in the army, we barely touch our guns more than once per year to practice.

 

[DebateChallenge]

You do ?

AFAIK, British driver's tests are the hardest around and have always been conducted on public roads, and not some country lane with no traffic either but through and around a busy town. These days they make you do a practical to like change a wheel or change the oil. If memory serves about 50% of people fail it the first time.
I have yet to meet a person who failed a US driving test

That's what they do in a NJ driving test except they don't have you do wheel or oil changes, and people do fail.

And that's why you sit at the light - because it's red (you would get a ticket for running a red light - but WHY is it red ?)

Because you're supposed to stop, that's what it means when its red. Why is it red? Because when its red for you its green for the road running perpendicular which means cars could be coming through the intersection and if the light was green for both roads that could result in an accident, we wouldn't want that would we? Or maybe you do want more automobile accidents if you want people to run red lights.

Do you think traffic lights should be replaced by round-abouts (where there's room to build them) ?

I never really thought about it.

Or do you think the imperial system (or whatever you want to call it) is better ?

It doesn't matter which system is better what matters is most people aren't going to change from a system they're used to to one they're not.

But do you think round-abouts are better ?
If so, why don't our local governments build them and improve the traffic flow? Are they incompetent, or is it yet another example of backward people, who're parochial and xenophobic regarding foreign ideas ?

As I said I never really thought about it. Maybe they are better, if they are in fact better sure, I wouldn't mind switching to them.

So what ?

You said its more dangerous to shoot out the window of an airplane than a bus. Im pointing out that you're more likely to shoot out a bus window than an airplane window since airplane windows are smaller.

I didn't know that, it seems that there's a training course for them

It's a really bad idea having guns on airplanes.
IMO, a lockable cabin door and toilet for the cabin crew are a better solution.

There is a training course for them and they also make bullets that are designed to not penetrate the fuselage of an airplane but are very effective at stopping attackers.
Lockable cabin doors and toilets for cabin crews are a good idea, in addition to guns.

 

[Rich2018]

That's what they do in a NJ driving test except they don't have you do wheel or oil changes, and people do fail.

Really, how many people fail ?
Does the state publish it's figures ?

Just that, I've never met anyone in all the states I've visited where someone's failed a driving test
In 2001, I had to drive twice round half a parking lot at the state police station on a Saturday morning. I could have almost passed with my eyes closed.

Because you're supposed to stop, that's what it means when its red. Why is it red?

I KNOW you're supposed to stop and just sit there if the light is red....and that's the point. You stop for no other reason than the light is red

I never really thought about it.

You and hundreds of millions of parochial, xenophobic, Americans

It doesn't matter which system is better...

It does to me

As I said I never really thought about it. Maybe they are better, if they are in fact better sure, I wouldn't mind switching to them.

Because they're better

You said its more dangerous to shoot out the window of an airplane than a bus. Im pointing out that you're more likely to shoot out a bus window than an airplane window since airplane windows are smaller.

It is and so what if they're smaller ?

There is a training course for them and they also make bullets that are designed to not penetrate the fuselage of an airplane but are very effective at stopping attackers.
Lockable cabin doors and toilets for cabin crews are a good idea, in addition to guns.

Can you kill anyone with those guns ?
If so they are bad


The cabin crew should lock themselves in the cabin for the flight's duration and not open the door even if the terrorists execute every single passenger.

 

[RF667799]

Really, how many people fail ?
Does the state publish it's figures ?

Just that, I've never met anyone in all the states I've visited where someone's failed a driving test
In 2001, I had to drive twice round half a parking lot at the state police station on a Saturday morning. I could have almost passed with my eyes closed.

I didn't have to take a road test in Germany to get a driver's license. Because I had one from the US already.

More than 4 in 10 people fail driving test - CBS News

A new survey of 500 drivers found that 44 percent couldn't get a passing score on a written driving test.

 

[RF667799]

But do you think round-abouts are better ?
If so, why don't our local governments build them and improve the traffic flow? Are they incompetent, or is it yet another example of backward people, who're parochial and xenophobic regarding foreign ideas ?

Why are they tearing out the roundabouts in Britain? | TreeHugger

In the USA the number of roundabouts has doubled in the last decade.
But in Britain, according to Ian Wylie in the Guardian, many are being torn out and replaced with (gasp) traffic lights.

'Traffic lights are so dictatorial' ... but are roundabouts on the way out? | Cities | The Guardian

The UK is quietly replacing roundabouts with traffic lights. The US is doing the exact opposite

 

[Rich2018]

No. However, I did went through police academy, and currently work for the department of corrections. The firearms course was rather basic and most departments around here only require requalifications once a year.

So maybe the average security guard is a better shot than the average policeman ?

 

[Maccabee]

So maybe the average security guard is a better shot than the average policeman ?

No. The average security officer is worse. They're only required to requalify once a year in my state. Not to mention the lack other supplimental training that police get while security have to pay for.

 

[Rich2018]

No. The average security officer is worse. They're only required to requalify once a year in my state. Not to mention the lack other supplimental training that police get while security have to pay for.

But don't policemen only have to pass a fitness test once a year ?

 

[Maccabee]

But don't policemen only have to pass a fitness test once a year ?

That depends on the department. Some don't even require a fitness test during the hiring process.

 

[Rich2018]

That depends on the department. Some don't even require a fitness test during the hiring process.

Really ?

And you wonder why America has so many bad cops.

You don't get too many instances of British policemen being arrested after killing someone



(cue certain posters to scour the internet look for examples of just that).

 

[DebateChallenge]

Really, how many people fail ?
Does the state publish it's figures ?

Just that, I've never met anyone in all the states I've visited where someone's failed a driving test
In 2001, I had to drive twice round half a parking lot at the state police station on a Saturday morning. I could have almost passed with my eyes closed.

I was going to post a link to a study that shows more than 4 out of 10 people in the USA fail their driving test but somebody beat me to it.

I KNOW you're supposed to stop and just sit there if the light is red....and that's the point. You stop for no other reason than the light is red

Maybe you don't want to get a ticket, that's a good reason to stop.

You and hundreds of millions of parochial, xenophobic, Americans

You sure like to stereotype.

It does to me

You vs over 300 million other American citizens, I would bet on them.

It is and so what if they're smaller ?

That means they're less likely to be shot out.

Can you kill anyone with those guns ?
If so they are bad

Just about anything can kill, even weapons that are designed not to kill have been known to kill.

The cabin crew should lock themselves in the cabin for the flight's duration and not open the door even if the terrorists execute every single passenger.

Then we should have sky marshals.

 

[Maccabee]

Really ?

And you wonder why America has so many bad cops.

You don't get too many instances of British policemen being arrested after killing someone



(cue certain posters to scour the internet look for examples of just that).

While being fat may play a role in the number of lethal force incidents, I'm not sure if it's as connected as you're making it out to be.

 

[Rich2018]

While being fat may play a role in the number of lethal force incidents, I'm not sure if it's as connected as you're making it out to be.

I didn't mean fitness in just a physical way but more of a military style "fitness report".

 

[Maccabee]

I didn't mean fitness in just a physical way but more of a military style "fitness report".

Oh in that case, you'd be hard pressed to find a department in my area that doesn't have a polygraph and/or psych eval.

 

[Rich2018]

I was going to post a link to a study that shows more than 4 out of 10 people in the USA fail their driving test but somebody beat me to it.

Times must have changed them, I struggle to believe ANYONE would fail the tests I took...or that my wife took

(and I didn't see any links of the driving test success rate in the USA - was it a national statistic ?)

Maybe you don't want to get a ticket, that's a good reason to stop.

As I said, you stop because the light is red, no other reason.

You sure like to stereotype.

No, it's called generalizing. You should learn the difference.

(cue a Webster on-line dictionary definition from a certain poster with nothing better to do)

You vs over 300 million other American citizens, I would bet on them.

So you're stereotyping Americans now as people who don't want a better system ?

That means they're less likely to be shot out.

Again, so what ?

(there's STILL a likelihood of them being shot out, to far greater consequences than say if a bus windows were to be)

Just about anything can kill, even weapons that are designed not to kill have been known to kill.

What "weapon" has been designed not to kill ?

Before you start a list, I don't consider a target pistol or a fencing foil to be "weapons"
Neither do I consider a can of MACE to be a weapon either. Now you can use a can as a weapon but then you can use a newspaper AS a weapon

Then we should have sky marshals.

Not needed, indeed a Sky Marshall makes a plane less safe.

If I had a choice of flying to the UK with a US carrier, with a Sky Marshal

Or a British carrier with NO Sky Marshal, I'd take the British carrier even if I had to pay more as a security premium.

 

[Rich2018]

Oh in that case, you'd be hard pressed to find a department in my area that doesn't have a polygraph and/or psych eval.

Yet so many US police get arrested for unnecessary use of force.

Don't you think there needs to be a federal standard ?

 

[DebateChallenge]

As I said, you stop because the light is red, no other reason.

I suppose if you don't consider not getting a ticket a reason.

 

[DebateChallenge]

What "weapon" has been designed not to kill ?

Tasers have been designed not to kill, although they have been known to kill.

Not needed, indeed a Sky Marshall makes a plane less safe.

If I had a choice of flying to the UK with a US carrier, with a Sky Marshal

Or a British carrier with NO Sky Marshal, I'd take the British carrier even if I had to pay more as a security premium.

YouTube

 

[iguanaman]

I prefer having a constitution where the whims of the stupid are not harnessed by pimps in office to pretend they are doing something.

The irony is that our own assault rifle ban significantly reduced the danger of mass shootings and we abandoned it purely because of politics.

Results: Assault rifles accounted for 430 or 85.8% of the total 501 mass-shooting fatalities reported (95% confidence interval, 82.8-88.9) in 44 mass-shooting incidents. Mass shootings in the United States accounted for an increasing proportion of all firearm-related homicides (coefficient for year, 0.7; p = 0.0003), with increment in year alone capturing over a third of the overall variance in the data (adjusted R = 0.3). In a linear regression model controlling for yearly trend, the federal ban period was associated with a statistically significant 9 fewer mass shooting related deaths per 10,000 firearm homicides (p = 0.03). Mass-shooting fatalities were 70% less likely to occur during the federal ban period (relative rate, 0.30; 95% confidence interval, 0.22-0.39).

Conclusion: Mass-shooting related homicides in the United States were reduced during the years of the federal assault weapons ban of 1994 to 2004.

Changes in US Mass Shooting Deaths Associated With the 1994-2004 Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Analysis of Open-Source Data - PubMed

 

[Maccabee]

Yet so many US police get arrested for unnecessary use of force.

Don't you think there needs to be a federal standard ?

There are over 900,000 sworn personnel in the US vs how many officers fired or disciplined or otherwise committed excessive force? I'm not saying that it's not a problem but I am saying that it's not as bad as bad as what is portrayed. To give an example, how many fender benders have made it to the news vs T-bones, head on collisions, and multi car pile ups?

 

[TurtleDude]

The irony is that our own assault rifle ban significantly reduced the danger of mass shootings and we abandoned it purely because of politics.




Changes in US Mass Shooting Deaths Associated With the 1994-2004 Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Analysis of Open-Source Data - PubMed

complete nonsense and it is unconstitutional after Heller

 

[Rich2018]

There are over 900,000 sworn personnel in the US vs how many officers fired or disciplined or otherwise committed excessive force? I'm not saying that it's not a problem but I am saying that it's not as bad as bad as what is portrayed. To give an example, how many fender benders have made it to the news vs T-bones, head on collisions, and multi car pile ups?

I think more officers are being fired/arrested now because of the new generations of phone that capture them breaking the law.

For example, do you think there'd be any arrests over the murder of the Brunswick jogger had it not been for the cell phone video ?

 

[Maccabee]

I think more officers are being fired/arrested now because of the new generations of phone that capture them breaking the law.

For example, do you think there'd be any arrests over the murder of the Brunswick jogger had it not been for the cell phone video ?

Fair point, however I'd still argue that even before cameras, the vast majority of officers didn't used excessive force.

 

[Rich2018]

Fair point, however I'd still argue that even before cameras, the vast majority of officers didn't used excessive force.

No, they didn't, but sadly there are more than a few policemen who love the power trip their badge gives them
Moreover, the law is weighted heavily in favor of the police but cell phones are changing that. Here's another example just from today:


"Shocking video has emerged showing a white Minneapolis police officer pinning a black man to the ground with his knees, moments before the suspect loses consciousness and dies.
The disturbing footage was taken by a bystander in south Minneapolis on Monday evening and has now sparked an FBI investigation into the man's death.
The Minneapolis Police Department confirmed the man died in a statement later that night, saying the arresting officers were responding to a 'forgery in progress.'
Police found the man, believed to be in his 40s, matching the suspect's description in his car..."


Minneapolis cop kneeled on neck of black man before he died | Daily Mail Online


Nideo footage will make the difference between a police cover up and whitewash (pun intended) and disciplinary action (hopefully an arrest and manslaughter charges).