Transgender Victoria Secret Model - Breaking Down Barriers

[dixon01767]

Did you bother to read this?

Yes. Did you have a relevant point or have you moved on to another point you are trying to make? Because nothing youve presented supports your assertion that someone with Autogynephilia isnt transgendered or have gender dysphoria. Because so far everything YOU have presented supports my assertion and refutes yours.

 

[maquiscat]

Yes. Did you have a relevant point or have you moved on to another point you are trying to make? Because nothing youve presented supports your assertion that someone with Autogynephilia isnt transgendered or have gender dysphoria. Because so far everything YOU have presented supports my assertion and refutes yours.

The very definition of autogynophilia renders it not the same as transgender. If autogynophilia is where a male gets sexually aroused at the thought of having or in having a female body, then their gender is still male even if they do full SRS. The argument can be made that they are transsexual after having gone through the surgery, but not transgendered. Nor would their condition cause GD, as that is the dysphoria of not having the body and inner self match. A man with autogynophilia would have a desire to have the female body, not a disassociative state due to mismatch.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

 

[dixon01767]

The very definition of autogynophilia renders it not the same as transgender. If autogynophilia is where a male gets sexually aroused at the thought of having or in having a female body, then their gender is still male even if they do full SRS. The argument can be made that they are transsexual after having gone through the surgery, but not transgendered. Nor would their condition cause GD, as that is the dysphoria of not having the body and inner self match. A man with autogynophilia would have a desire to have the female body, not a disassociative state due to mismatch.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

Nonsense. If that were true that would mean medical doctors are prescribing radical sex change surgery to enhance their sexual arousal. They are not, they claim it is to treat the mental disorder of gender dysphoria. Otherwise the surgery would be prescribed.

 

[Lisa]

The very definition of autogynophilia renders it not the same as transgender. If autogynophilia is where a male gets sexually aroused at the thought of having or in having a female body, then their gender is still male even if they do full SRS. The argument can be made that they are transsexual after having gone through the surgery, but not transgendered. Nor would their condition cause GD, as that is the dysphoria of not having the body and inner self match. A man with autogynophilia would have a desire to have the female body, not a disassociative state due to mismatch.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

You explained it as well, if not better than I could have. Thank you.

 

[Lisa]

Nonsense. If that were true that would mean medical doctors are prescribing radical sex-change surgery to enhance their sexual arousal. They are not, they claim it is to treat the mental disorder of gender dysphoria. Otherwise, the surgery would be prescribed.

People who are transgendered are not the same as those who are claimed to meet the diagnosis of autogynephilia. You seem to believe the terms are interchangeable.

 

[maquiscat]

Nonsense. If that were true that would mean medical doctors are prescribing radical sex change surgery to enhance their sexual arousal. They are not, they claim it is to treat the mental disorder of gender dysphoria. Otherwise the surgery would be prescribed.

Have we not already mentioned that there are medical professionals who don't exactly have the patient's best interests in mind? Not to mention, per bodily autonomy, do whatever the hell you want with your body. When we look at all the piercing and gageing, and body mods and plastic surgery we already do, is hormones and SRS really all that much of a stretch?

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

 

[SDET]

It sounds like a plane crash to me.

You need to check your science my friend. Not everything is Column A or Column B. There's a wide range of people who would be classify as the intersex category, whether it be from hormone levels, genitalia, or sex chromosome code. When we talk about trans folks, we're talking about people whose brains and sex organs are on different planes.

 

[dixon01767]

People who are transgendered are not the same as those who are claimed to meet the diagnosis of autogynephilia. You seem to believe the terms are interchangeable.

Autogynephilia it a specific type of transgenderism. Different from the typical case of transgenderism.

 

[dixon01767]

Have we not already mentioned that there are medical professionals who don't exactly have the patient's best interests in mind? Not to mention, per bodily autonomy, do whatever the hell you want with your body. When we look at all the piercing and gageing, and body mods and plastic surgery we already do, is hormones and SRS really all that much of a stretch?

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

"piercing and gageing, and body mods and plastic surgery" arent medical treatments paid for under medical insurance. They are elective cosmetic procedures.

 

[maquiscat]

Autogynephilia it a specific type of transgenderism. Different from the typical case of transgenderism.

No it's not. You are pulling from older initial definitions that have since been refined. An autogynophiliac man is still a man who is stimulated by having a woman's body. IOW, he doesn't feel like a woman trapped in a man's body, he wants to be a man in a woman's body. The opposite of what transgenderism is. Once operated on, he would then be a transsexual under the current definitions.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

 

[maquiscat]

"piercing and gageing, and body mods and plastic surgery" arent medical treatments paid for under medical insurance. They are elective cosmetic procedures.

And that is a different topic and issue all together.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

 

[dixon01767]

No it's not. You are pulling from older initial definitions that have since been refined. An autogynophiliac man is still a man who is stimulated by having a woman's body. IOW, he doesn't feel like a woman trapped in a man's body, he wants to be a man in a woman's body. The opposite of what transgenderism is. Once operated on, he would then be a transsexual under the current definitions.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

You have your opinions and the medical experst have theirs.

Blanchard's transsexualism typology, also Blanchard autogynephilia theory and Blanchard's taxonomy, is a psychological typology of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism created by Ray Blanchard through the 1980s and 1990s, building on the work of his colleague, Kurt Freund. Blanchard divided trans women into two groups: one is "homosexual transsexuals" (what are now otherwise termed heterosexual trans women) who, Blanchard says, seek sex reassignment surgery because they are feminine in both behavior and appearance, and to romantically and sexually attract (ideally heterosexual) men; and the other is "autogynephilic transsexuals" who, according to Blanchard, are sexually aroused at the idea of having a female body. Blanchard's model is unusual in that neither group is considered "false transsexuals"; both autogynephilic and homosexual transsexuals are thought to benefit from transition
This distinction is a recurring theme in scholarly literature on transsexualism.[1]

Supporters of the theory include sexual behavior scientists J. Michael Bailey, James Cantor, Alice Dreger, and some openly transgender health care providers, Anne Lawrence and Maxine Peterson, and others who point out significant differences between the two proposed groups, including sexuality, age of transition, ethnicity, IQ, fetishism, and quality of adjustment.
Blanchard's transsexualism typology - Wikipedia

 

[dixon01767]

And that is a different topic and issue all together.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

No its not. It is the same. As long as the science of psychology is recognized as the expert on the topic. They make up the words and they get to define their meaning. Seems you think your personal preferences should control. I personally think the science of biology should be the experts on defining what is a man and a woman, but in our society, somewhere along the way weve decided that is the science of psychology makes that determination. That science which defines and treats mental disorders of the mind.

 

[American]

Victoria's Secret reportedly hires first transgender model - INSIDER

Maybe some people will start to rethink their preconceived notions about "transgender" after seeing this?

Why, because VS hired the most attractive Transgender they could find?

 

[Peter King]

What's to rethink, DNA is DNA

But if a transgender has all the right parts and looks as beautiful as any other model, who cares?

 

[Lisa]

You have your opinions and the medical experts have theirs.

Blanchard's transsexualism typology, also Blanchard autogynephilia theory and Blanchard's taxonomy, is a psychological typology of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism created by Ray Blanchard through the 1980s and 1990s, building on the work of his colleague, Kurt Freund. Blanchard divided trans women into two groups: one is "homosexual transsexuals" (what are now otherwise termed heterosexual trans women) who, Blanchard says, seek sex reassignment surgery because they are feminine in both behavior and appearance, and to romantically and sexually attract (ideally heterosexual) men; and the other is "autogynephilic transsexuals" who, according to Blanchard, are sexually aroused at the idea of having a female body. Blanchard's model is unusual in that neither group is considered "false transsexuals"; both autogynephilic and homosexual transsexuals are thought to benefit from transition
This distinction is a recurring theme in the scholarly literature on transsexualism.[1]

Supporters of the theory include sexual behavior scientists J. Michael Bailey, James Cantor, Alice Dreger, and some openly transgender health care providers, Anne Lawrence and Maxine Peterson, and others who point out significant differences between the two proposed groups, including sexuality, age of transition, ethnicity, IQ, fetishism, and quality of adjustment.
Blanchard's transsexualism typology - Wikipedia

You are confused.

A transfemale who is a lesbian in her identified gender role is not an example of autogynephilia. There are also trans females who are bisexual and there are celibate trans people and they are also not examples of autogynephilia.
People who are diagnosed as autogynephilia are not transgendered.

 

[Lisa]

"piercing and gageing, and body mods and plastic surgery" arent medical treatments paid for under medical insurance. They are elective cosmetic procedures.

They are not elective procedures because if the situation is properly and effectively treated with hormones and then reassignment surgery these people develop very deep depression anxiety and other mental health disorders. Why do you think that you, who doesn't have a clue about the condition, can make medical treatment decsions for others?

BTW what piercing and gaging are you referring to? They are paid for by medical insurance because this is a medical treatment that is approved by the medical establishment.

 

[dixon01767]

You are confused.

A transfemale who is a lesbian in her identified gender role is not an example of autogynephilia......

No one claimed it was so not sure of the relevance of your point or what i am supposedly confused about. Seems as though you are the one confused as to what I have stated.

 

[dixon01767]

They are not elective procedures because if the situation is properly and effectively treated with hormones and then reassignment surgery these people develop very deep depression anxiety and other mental health disorders. Why do you think that you, who doesn't have a clue about the condition, can make medical treatment decsions for others?

BTW what piercing and gaging are you referring to? They are paid for by medical insurance because this is a medical treatment that is approved by the medical establishment.

The "piercing and gageing, and body mods and plastic surgery" refers to Maquiscats post

Not to mention, per bodily autonomy, do whatever the hell you want with your body. When we look at all the piercing and gageing, and body mods and plastic surgery we already do, is hormones and SRS really all that much of a stretch?

All refering to elective surgeries that are not covered under medical insurance because they are not for medical purposes.

 

[Peter King]

If a transgender model looks like this



and like this



Well, than I say let them model for Victoria Secret

 

[maquiscat]

You are confused.

A transfemale who is a lesbian in her identified gender role is not an example of autogynephilia. There are also trans females who are bisexual and there are celibate trans people and they are also not examples of autogynephilia.
People who are diagnosed as autogynephilia are not transgendered.

I have to correct you on this, Lisa. You are mistaking his point, of which I don't agree, but regardless I will try not to misrepresent. Dixon, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Boiled down, he is claiming all autogynophiliacs are transgenders, but not all transgenders are autogynophiliacs. Similar to how, when I talk about poly, I have noted that all polygyny is polygamy, but not all polygamy is polygyny, as an example.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

 

[Lisa]

I have to correct you on this, Lisa. You are mistaking his point, of which I don't agree, but regardless I will try not to misrepresent. Dixon, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Boiled down, he is claiming all autogynephilia are transgenders, but not all transgenders are autogynephilia. Similar to how, when I talk about poly, I have noted that all polygyny is polygamy, but not all polygamy is polygyny, as an example.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

Autogynephilia is different than transgender. It is closer to transvestitism. They are males(usually) who have a sexual fetish of being female because of the erotism. It is not because they have a psychological gender identity that is at odds with their biological gender.
To bring up autogynephilia in a discussion of transgender is an attempt to stroke confusion and create a strawman.

 

[Lisa]

The "piercing and gageing, and body mods and plastic surgery" refers to Maquiscats post



All referring to elective surgeries that are not covered under medical insurance because they are not for medical purposes.

I have my ears pierced, so how can that be part of transition care?

What electric surgeries are you referring to? The GRS for trans females and bilateral mastetomy and hysterectomy/GRS for males are not elective.

 

[maquiscat]

Autogynephilia is different than transgender. It is closer to transvestitism. They are males(usually) who have a sexual fetish of being female because of the erotism. It is not because they have a psychological gender identity that is at odds with their biological gender.
To bring up autogynephilia in a discussion of transgender is an attempt to stroke confusion and create a strawman.

I understand and agree with you, and I'm not making any counter argument on those points. But you did counter Dixon as if he was claiming all transgenderism was autogynophilia. I am pointing out that isn't what he is arguing. You are, inadvertently, making strawman arguments.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk

 

[Angel]

Whatever happened to common sense?