• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Time for Liberals to Shrug?

Ok, give me an example of the bolded.. I'll wait. :)

Tim-

For instance, homosexuality is considered a sin in most abrahamic religions. If I was hateful or intolerant of say Muslim or Christian religion because of their views on homosexuality, then I would be a bigot.
 
For instance, homosexuality is considered a sin in most abrahamic religions. If I was hateful or intolerant of say Muslim or Christian religion because of their views on homosexuality, then I would be a bigot.

Again, not to keep belaboring the point, but words do matter, and so does context. Say I didn't care that homosexuals were sinners in the eyes of any religion, but also felt that homosexuals had a right to the same liberty that any other person enjoys, and that is why I "hated" religious organizations, would that make me a bigot, in your example? Conversely, if I was a religious person, and hated homosexuals because I felt they were all sinners, because my religion says to do so, THAT would make me a bigot, however, if I were a religious person and disagreed with giving homosexuals rights, such as marriage, and adoption, BUT I did so not because of my religious beliefs, but perhaps based on the available scientific evidence, that would NOT make me a bigot..


Tim-
 
The level of intolerance you showed in your original post is text book bigotry, you are simply labeling anyone that disagrees with you as a bigot in order to excuse your bigotry. Just because someone disagrees with you on the role or policies the government should adopt does not automatically make them a bigot.

Donald Trump is an overt racist and misogynist. There are literally KKK members and Nazis parading through the streets cheering on this president because they love what he's doing so much. Trump literally admitted to sexually assaulting women and has been accused of it by more than 20 women.

If you voted for Donald Trump you are supporting bigotry. There is no debate about that. There is no denying that reality. There is no pretending that racists and sexists are fringe pieces of the Republican party. It is unmistakenly the vast majority of Republicans who are either overt racists and sexists themselves or at a minimum could care less about it.

When you have open Nazis and white supremacists winning Republican primaries you don't get to pretend it's just the fringe. It's the entire party now and there's no escaping it. If you're a Trump supporter you are a bigot. End of Discussion.
 
Again, not to keep belaboring the point, but words do matter, and so does context. Say I didn't care that homosexuals were sinners in the eyes of any religion, but also felt that homosexuals had a right to the same liberty that any other person enjoys, and that is why I "hated" religious organizations, would that make me a bigot, in your example? Conversely, if I was a religious person, and hated homosexuals because I felt they were all sinners, because my religion says to do so, THAT would make me a bigot, however, if I were a religious person and disagreed with giving homosexuals rights, such as marriage, and adoption, BUT I did so not because of my religious beliefs, but perhaps based on the available scientific evidence, that would NOT make me a bigot..


Tim-

If you are hating religious organizations for disagreeing with you, then yes by definition you are a bigot. Just as any religious person that uses their text to justify their hatred of homosexuals is a bigot.

The last example is not of you being intolerant which is why you would not be a bigot.
 
No, I think the other poster nailed you pretty good on this one. Just so you know, bigotry is holding an opinion, good or bad, for something, in spite of factual evidence to the contrary.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Wow!!!! I think you need to go retake 2nd grade.

When there is factual evidence that disproves a belief that belief can no longer be considered an opinion. It's just wrong. It's a fallacy. You see if you told me that you thought the world was flat that's not an opinion. You're wrong because there is factual evidence that proves you wrong.

The inability to demonstrate that something is wrong is what makes something an opinion. If you can demonstrate that it is wrong then it is no longer an opinion.

This is disjointed, can you elaborate on why you included this, it doesn't seem to have any relevant context to your above comments?
It's very simple. Prejudice implies that you're pre-judging a person without the necessary information you would need to determine their character. If you're basing your judgment on skin color, sex, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, or any criteria that is a direct result of the circumstances which you were born into alone then you are prejudice. The circumstances of your birth tell us nothing about you. That is what our founding fathers were talking about when they said that "All men are created equal."

But voting for Donald Trump is a disgusting choice that you made despite mountains of information being available to you that should have indicated he is a horrible human being. This fact tells a ton of information about you and your character. It tells us that you are either a massive idiot or a disgusting **** head. We can determine that with 100% certainty based upon that choice.

And that's how bigots ALWAYS justify their opinions, in fact, it is exactly how they reconcile their opinions intrinsically, and extrinsically. true story bro! :)

Because bigots think that things like skin color, sex, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, and other trivial personal preferences are relevant ways to judge a person. They are not, that's what makes it wrong to do so. However, political choices are very different. When you make a choice to vote for an evil person who has demonstrated overt bigotry, racism, sexism, xenophobia it tells us a lot about your character and what type of person you are. That is valid information from which we can use to judge you.

If Bigotry is a bad thing then it is perfectly acceptable to judge a bigot negatively. Trump and his supporters are without question bigots. There is no escaping that reality.
 
Trump and his supporters are without question bigots. There is no escaping that reality.

See ^^^ A bigot, right there ^^^..

The rest of your rant was also completely wrong, but I only needed to read what you really thought to decide on whether to engage any further, I choose not too.. Have fun with that TDS, brah.. ;)


Tim-
 
If you are hating religious organizations for disagreeing with you, then yes by definition you are a bigot.
We do not hate religions for disagreeing. We hate them for taking actions and passing laws that harm us. We hate them for the fallacious ways in which they justify their treatment of others.

Just as any religious person that uses their text to justify their hatred of homosexuals is a bigot.
Correct, but bigotry is bad, and bigots are bad people. It's okay to hate a bad person. Bad people deserve to be treated poorly. As a result, the hatred of religious extremists who practice and advocate bigotry is perfectly reasonable and is not in and of itself bigotry.
 
See ^^^ A bigot, right there ^^^.

Based upon your poor understanding of bigotry it doesn't seem like you think there is anything wrong with bigotry so there's no reason for me to have a problem with you calling me one even though you're wrong.
 
Donald Trump is an overt racist and misogynist. There are literally KKK members and Nazis parading through the streets cheering on this president because they love what he's doing so much. Trump literally admitted to sexually assaulting women and has been accused of it by more than 20 women.

If you voted for Donald Trump you are supporting bigotry. There is no debate about that. There is no denying that reality. There is no pretending that racists and sexists are fringe pieces of the Republican party. It is unmistakenly the vast majority of Republicans who are either overt racists and sexists themselves or at a minimum could care less about it.

When you have open Nazis and white supremacists winning Republican primaries you don't get to pretend it's just the fringe. It's the entire party now and there's no escaping it. If you're a Trump supporter you are a bigot. End of Discussion.

There are many that voted Trump simply because they didn't like Hillary. As I stated before you are merely labeling anyone that disagrees with you as a bigot in order to justify your own bigotry.
 
Typical of the left, you fail to grasp the OBVIOUS...such as your Obamacare RANT.


CHOOSING TO BUY insurance, whether it be an ACA plan or not, IS A FAR CRY FROM BEING FORCED TO, UNDER THREAT OF A DRACONIAN FINE.

Your premise is INVALID.

Much as we are forced to participate in Medicare, have auto insurance, etc. It's the real world.
 
Bigotry has nothing to do with what is factual.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

You can be a bigot and be 100% factually correct. It is mainly having a sense superiority of your own opinions.

False. When you are factually correct, and someone else is factually wrong then you are not expressing an opinion. Your belief is factual and therefore it is by definition superior to a belief that is wrong.

If you believe that the world is flat, and I know it is a sphere. I'm correct, and you are wrong. My belief is, in fact, superior to yours by definition.

If you believe that 2+2=5, and I know 2+2=4 then you are wrong. That is why the teacher will take points of your math quiz if you answer with a 5. My answer is, in fact, superior to yours. It is right, and you are wrong.
 
We do not hate religions for disagreeing. We hate them for taking actions and passing laws that harm us. We hate them for the fallacious ways in which they justify their treatment of others.


Correct, but bigotry is bad, and bigots are bad people. It's okay to hate a bad person. Bad people deserve to be treated poorly. As a result, the hatred of religious extremists who practice and advocate bigotry is perfectly reasonable and is not in and of itself bigotry.

So you hate democracy? Rather than hate them for passing laws make a case and win public opinion in your favor to repeal said laws. Hating them because they are passing laws you don't like is still hating them simply because you disagree.
 
False. When you are factually correct, and someone else is factually wrong then you are not expressing an opinion. Your belief is factual and therefore it is by definition superior to a belief that is wrong.

If you believe that the world is flat, and I know it is a sphere. I'm correct, and you are wrong. My belief is, in fact, superior to yours by definition.

If you believe that 2+2=5, and I know 2+2=4 then you are wrong. That is why the teacher will take points of your math quiz if you answer with a 5. My answer is, in fact, superior to yours. It is right, and you are wrong.

I agree with you on the premise that bigotry is based on opinion and that factual claims does not constitute bigotry as a fact isn't an opinion.
 
There are many that voted Trump simply because they didn't like Hillary.
First, that would explain not voting or voting third party not voting for Donald Trump.

Second, as I said, there are two explanations for voting for Donald Trump. One is that you're an idiot the other is that you are evil. People who voted Trump because they didn't like Hillary fall under the idiot category.

Third, In 1930s Germany there were a lot of Germans who supported Hitler not so much because they wanted to murder the Jews and liked Hitler they just didn't like Hitler's opponent. Those Germans were called Nazis. It didn't matter why they supported Hitler they still did it, and they're still responsible for the damage he did.

As I stated before you are merely labeling anyone that disagrees with you as a bigot in order to justify your own bigotry.

Regardless of why you thought it was a good idea to vote for Donald Trump, you are still a bad person, and it is perfectly acceptable to be pissed off at you for the damage you have caused to our country.

Conversely, if Hillary had won or when Obama had won and Republicans thought they were destroying the country and hated me for supporting him I would not classify them as bigots. Granted their hatred of Hillary and or Obama was almost certainly based upon bigotry, but if they were mad at me for the way I voted that in and of itself would not make them bigotted toward me.

Or for example... There are a lot of Republicans who hate Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, and Bernie Sanders. If they hated Joe Biden it would not be because they were bigoted towards Biden. They would be wrong, but they wouldn't be bigoted towards Biden. Now, they might hate Biden because they are bigotted towards Muslims and Women, and Joe Biden is not, but that would not make them bigotted towards Biden. They would be wrong, but not bigoted.
 
So you hate democracy? Rather than hate them for passing laws make a case and win public opinion
The reason we have this thing called the Bill of Rights and all these checks and balances is that our founding fathers understood that there were fundamental rights necessary for liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They also believed that "all men were created equal."

The modern Republican party under Trump fundamentally does not believe in these things and is doing everything in their power to cross that line where it is not simply a difference of opinion.

Furthermore, in case you missed it. 3 million more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than Trump. In the last 7 consecutive presidential elections, the Republican party has only managed to win the popular vote 1 time. I fully support Democracy, but this is not a democracy. We have made our case to sway public opinion, and we have won. It is only by rigging election and taking advantage of bad election laws that Republicans have been able to cling to power.

Tyranny of the Majority is bad, but what we have in this country today is Tyranny of the minority. We now have a situation in this country where the majority of Americans are at risk of having their basic human rights taken from them by a minority, and the supreme court which would normally protect us from that tyranny be enforcing the bill of rights has also been co-opted by a minority that will certainly allow it to happen.

Hating them because they are passing laws you don't like is still hating them simply because you disagree.
Again, these are not simply laws I don't like. We are not debating our favorite colors or our favorite pizza toppings here. They are attempting to undermine basic human rights. They are attempting to rob women of their right to make choices about their own bodies. They are stealing innocent children from their parents, locking them in cages, and injecting them with drugs to keep them from crying. That is morally impermissible. It's not just a matter of opinion or preference.

Not everything is a simple opinion just because you believe it. Sometimes people can be wrong. The Republican party is wrong. Morality is not a preference. Cruelty is not simply a matter of perspective.
 
Typical of the left, you fail to grasp the OBVIOUS...such as your Obamacare RANT.


CHOOSING TO BUY insurance, whether it be an ACA plan or not, IS A FAR CRY FROM BEING FORCED TO, UNDER THREAT OF A DRACONIAN FINE.

Your premise is INVALID.

Actually, it's the conserva-tards who miss the obvious. Allowing public health to be just another corporate profit engine is madness. Healthcare is a universal need in humans so why pretend it's something that ANYONE can do without? Thus, "universal" healthcare is an idea that should be universally obvious but the conversation, like so many, is corrupted by money and the pursuit thereof. I'll be the first to admit that what Obamacare was negotiated into becoming was not a lot better than the free for all it used to be, except for the fact that it covered millions who were, incredibly, unable to afford medical care previously as a function of corporate greed and the socialism phobia of right wing dip ****s.

I've said it before that the conservatives are overwhelmingly the "dreamers" in our country. Reality is not even on their radar. They imagine a paradigm that justifies and excuses their animal desires and then attempt to cement those fantasies in law. There is no introspection, just fantasy politics. The question "what kind of country do we want to be" is not often asked by righties or considered outside their fiscal, social and religious dogmas. Their vision for America is magical first and foremost. They imagine a place full of working contradictions, where religious fervor and racial segregation exist together without violence, where the market is "free" but they don't have slavery, where there is no socialism and the poor don't mind dying to make others rich. You know, an impossible reality.

There has been talk of an impending civil war in this country. If it ever happened, it would play out much like the first one, with conservative places having none of the intellectual tools to win it. Their only virtue would be the futile bravery that retards and the pious possess. They would have rich people on their side but they would be no more willing to let their own children die in war than they are now. The very OBVIOUS divisions in our current society would be magnified in theirs.

I agree, Mr. Wonka, let them have their states where there is no socialism, where zygotes have human rights and where the bible is their constitution. Let them suffer for their ignorance and let us succeed for our lack of it. There is no divine intervention for morons, they must learn the hard way and, in truth, learning is the only reason to allow others to suffer at all. In the end, we'll all be better off for it.
 
Donald Trump is an overt racist and misogynist. There are literally KKK members and Nazis parading through the streets cheering on this president because they love what he's doing so much. Trump literally admitted to sexually assaulting women and has been accused of it by more than 20 women.

If you voted for Donald Trump you are supporting bigotry. There is no debate about that. There is no denying that reality. There is no pretending that racists and sexists are fringe pieces of the Republican party. It is unmistakenly the vast majority of Republicans who are either overt racists and sexists themselves or at a minimum could care less about it.

When you have open Nazis and white supremacists winning Republican primaries you don't get to pretend it's just the fringe. It's the entire party now and there's no escaping it. If you're a Trump supporter you are a bigot. End of Discussion.

"Racism, of course, preceded the Democratic Party but the Democrats, in a
sense, invented political racism in the early nineteenth century in order to
defend slavery against Republican and abolitionist attack. The attack went
like this: all men are created equal, blacks are men, therefore, blacks should
not be enslaved. Republicans like Lincoln admitted that the founders had
temporarily permitted slavery because there was no other way to have a
union. Even so, Lincoln said of the right to life and liberty listed in the
Declaration of Independence that the founders “meant simply to declare the
right so that the enforcement of it might follow as fast as circumstances
should permit.”23
Progressive Democrats in the twentieth century would in fact attack the
founding fathers as misguided or their ideas as out of date. But in the
nineteenth century, Democrats took a different line. They denied that blacks
were men, which is to say, they denied the full humanity of black people. So
the Democratic defense went like this: all men are created equal, blacks are
subhuman, which is to say, not fully men, therefore, we are justified in
enslaving them.
So racism emerged within the Democratic Party as a rationalization for
slavery. Nowhere was that racism more clearly expressed than in the words
of that Jacksonian Democrat Roger Taney, chief justice of the Supreme
Court, in his notorious Dred Scott decision. Taney infamously stated that
blacks “have no rights which the white man was bound to respect.”24 This
same racist doctrine was the basis for the Northern Democrat Stephen
Douglas’s advocacy of popular sovereignty—let each state and territory
decide for itself whether it wants slavery—as well as the Southern Democrat
John C. Calhoun’s advocacy of slavery as a positive good.
Even after slavery ended, Democrats found racism to be very useful for
them. In fact, they relied on it more than ever. They constructed a whole
ideology and structure of white supremacy in order to establish their political
domination in the South."
"Now let’s watch the big lie operate from the other end. Here’s how the
Left lies about itself in order to camouflage its ideological and tactical
proximity to the Nazis. The Left says, the Nazis were the party of racism
while the Left is the party of anti-racism. The Nazis enslaved people while
the Left is the party of anti-slavery. The Nazis perpetrated genocide and
racial terrorism while the Left would never ever do that. The Nazis were
viciously intolerant of dissenting views while the Left is unbelievably
tolerant. In fact, in America it was the Democratic Party that was the party of
slavery, segregation, racism, and the Ku Klux Klan. It remains the party of
racial identity politics to this day, while the Republicans were founded as an
anti-slavery party, continue to favor a color-blind society, and are tolerant in
a polite, respectful, old-fashioned American way that politically correct
speech-banning progressives cannot stand."
The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left



In opposite land you would be exactly correct. I would ask why you tell such obvious whoppers but the strategy is transparent to those who are paying attention.
 
First, that would explain not voting or voting third party not voting for Donald Trump.

Second, as I said, there are two explanations for voting for Donald Trump. One is that you're an idiot the other is that you are evil. People who voted Trump because they didn't like Hillary fall under the idiot category.

Third, In 1930s Germany there were a lot of Germans who supported Hitler not so much because they wanted to murder the Jews and liked Hitler they just didn't like Hitler's opponent. Those Germans were called Nazis. It didn't matter why they supported Hitler they still did it, and they're still responsible for the damage he did.



Regardless of why you thought it was a good idea to vote for Donald Trump, you are still a bad person, and it is perfectly acceptable to be pissed off at you for the damage you have caused to our country.

Conversely, if Hillary had won or when Obama had won and Republicans thought they were destroying the country and hated me for supporting him I would not classify them as bigots. Granted their hatred of Hillary and or Obama was almost certainly based upon bigotry, but if they were mad at me for the way I voted that in and of itself would not make them bigotted toward me.

Or for example... There are a lot of Republicans who hate Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, and Bernie Sanders. If they hated Joe Biden it would not be because they were bigoted towards Biden. They would be wrong, but they wouldn't be bigoted towards Biden. Now, they might hate Biden because they are bigotted towards Muslims and Women, and Joe Biden is not, but that would not make them bigotted towards Biden. They would be wrong, but not bigoted.

The bolded is literally the text book definition of bigotry......

Also, I didn't vote nor support Trump.
 
Actually, the states with the highest poverty rate in the United States are as follows...

Mississippi, New Mexico, Lousiana, Alabama, Kentucky, Arkansas, Georgia, West Virginia, Tennesse, South Carolina, Texas, North Carolina, and Oklahoma.

With the exception of New Mexico, every other state on this list is a Red Republican state. California is 35th which isn't great, but it's still ahead of about half of all Republican States.

That and New York is dead last in private sector job growth.
 
You don't live here. The state is losing jobs and population because of the confiscatory taxation.

I don't need to live there. That's how facts and numbers work. They tell us objective truths regardless of what you are personally feeling.
 
To the lunatic Left, high taxation is a good thing.

So you admit that you were wrong, and now want to change the subject to something else? Thanks.

Any good society must re-invest in itself, It's children, it's infrastructure, it's security, it's energy needs... to not do so properly is suicidal. This is why states like Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, Arkansas, Oklahoma, West Virginia... are perennial bringing up the ass end of our economy and quality of life for its people.
 
So you admit that you were wrong, and now want to change the subject to something else? Thanks.

Any good society must re-invest in itself, It's children, it's infrastructure, it's security, it's energy needs... to not do so properly is suicidal. This is why states like Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, Arkansas, Oklahoma, West Virginia... are perennial bringing up the ass end of our economy and quality of life for its people.

I am not wrong. New York is one of the most business unfriendly states in the country. And yet you support taxing the rich into oblivion.
 
Back
Top Bottom