Thoughts on the new army pistol to be

[apdst]

I'm sure people said the same thing about m16s. Time to join the 21st century. Blocks are combat proven. Police proven. Even the U.K. is issuing them. We aren't all using colt single action army revolvers for a reason...better stuff has come along. Even better than the 1911.

I doubt it, since it was 100 years since a rifle with an external hammer was in the system.

The Berretta is battle tested, too. So are the Colt 1911 and the Browning Hi-Power.

The Browning Hi-Power is the best semi-automatic pistol ever built.

 

[braindrain]

The pistol routinely gave me trouble on the range. It would take me all damn week to get Expert.

While I am not familiar with the Marine pistol qual I can tell you the Army one is a piss poor test to see if someone can actually use a pistol in an actual combat situation. It’s why we don’t even bother qualifying with a pistol. It’s simply a waste of time.

 

[Fraggle Rock]

Very small on my list. When my Kia has collision avoidance and the Navy is losing ships to boats colliding with them that are half the speed of molasses sliding down the wall; we have much bigger fish to fry.

 

[braindrain]

I'm sure people said the same thing about m16s. Time to join the 21st century. Blocks are combat proven. Police proven. Even the U.K. is issuing them. We aren't all using colt single action army revolvers for a reason...better stuff has come along. Even better than the 1911.

Not just proven by police forces but also a bunch of military units. A number of our SOF units as well as foreign militaries use Glocks. The Army has issues me a Glock for close to a decade now and it has served me very well through every combat deployment.

Some people just can’t accept the fact that just because a 1911 had certain features doesn’t mean that those things are needed. Some simply believe the 1911 is the end all be all of a pistol and the further we get from that the worst off we are.

 

[braindrain]

I doubt it, since it was 100 years since a rifle with an external hammer was in the system.

The Berretta is battle tested, too. So are the Colt 1911 and the Browning Hi-Power.

The Browning Hi-Power is the best semi-automatic pistol ever built.

And so is the Glock.

I would take a Glock or an M&P over a high power any day.

 

[apdst]

And so is the Glock.

I would take a Glock or an M&P over a high power any day.

If it had a manual sadety and an external hammer, it would be great.

 

[braindrain]

If it had a manual sadety and an external hammer, it would be great.

Yes let’s add two useless features to what is probably the most widely used pistol throughout the world. That is what we need in a combat pistol.

 

[apdst]

Yes let’s add two useless features to what is probably the most widely used pistol throughout the world. That is what we need in a combat pistol.

Safety features aren't useless.

 

[braindrain]

Safety features aren't useless.

Safety features that are unneeded are useless.

 

[apdst]

Safety features that are unneeded are useless.

From your perspective, maybe so. But a majority of the servicemen that will be issued these pistols aren't in an SF unit. They're 18-20 yeaes old and most of them never touched a firearm before they joined the service.

 

[braindrain]

From your perspective, maybe so. But a majority of the servicemen that will be issued these pistols aren't in an SF unit. They're 18-20 yeaes old and most of them never touched a firearm before they joined the service.

And neither have the tens of thousands of police that carry Glocks. These are the same Soldiers that have manned M2 machine guns for 100 years that till recently didn’t have safeties.

The vast majority of ADs that I have seen or heard about a manual saftey would not have made a difference. Virtually every single one I know about was a result of screwing around and pulling the trigger because they thought the weapon was unloaded and the dumbass was intentionally trying to dry fire the weapon or people getting careless while clearing their weapon and not removing the source of feed and shooting a round when they mechanically clear they weapon. Neither of which a saftey would help.
In fact I have never heard of a single AD that a saftey would have prevented. I am sure somewhere it has happened but it is no where near the majority. And for sure not happening enough to determine the needed features on a weapon.

 

[apdst]

And neither have the tens of thousands of police that carry Glocks. These are the same Soldiers that have manned M2 machine guns for 100 years that till recently didn’t have safeties.

The vast majority of ADs that I have seen or heard about a manual saftey would not have made a difference. Virtually every single one I know about was a result of screwing around and pulling the trigger because they thought the weapon was unloaded and the dumbass was intentionally trying to dry fire the weapon or people getting careless while clearing their weapon and not removing the source of feed and shooting a round when they mechanically clear they weapon. Neither of which a saftey would help.
In fact I have never heard of a single AD that a saftey would have prevented. I am sure somewhere it has happened but it is no where near the majority.

A soldier isn't carry an M-2 machinegun in a hip holster. He isn't going accidently pull the trigger. The weapons aren't always locked and loaded, only at certain times and when they are, they're pointed up and down range.

In fact I have never heard of a single AD that a saftey would have prevented. I am sure somewhere it has happened but it is no where near the majority.

Because, until now, the Army hasn't issued a personal weapon that didn't a manual safety and never has issued a pistol that didn't have a manual safety and/or an external hammer.

When the Army issues pistols w/o manual safeties, you'll start hearing about those accidental discharges.

 

[beerftw]

A soldier isn't carry an M-2 machinegun in a hip holster. He isn't going accidently pull the trigger. The weapons aren't always locked and loaded, only at certain times and when they are, they're pointed up and down range.



Because, until now, the Army hasn't issued a personal weapon that didn't a manual safety and never has issued a pistol that didn't have a manual safety and/or an external hammer.

When the Army issues pistols w/o manual safeties, you'll start hearing about those accidental discharges.

The manual safety is not the big concern with striker fired, ir is the trigger safety, due to the fact striker fire have a bad tendency to go off if bumped without a good safety, some companies developed fancy methods, most copied glocks 2 stage triggers, which was a simple and reliable solution that pretty much eliminated the issues with striker fired pistols, sig chose to use their own over engineered design instead of using cheap simple and tried and true glock style trigger safety.

 

[braindrain]

A soldier isn't carry an M-2 machinegun in a hip holster. He isn't going accidently pull the trigger. The weapons aren't always locked and loaded, only at certain times and when they are, they're pointed up and down range.



Because, until now, the Army hasn't issued a personal weapon that didn't a manual safety and never has issued a pistol that didn't have a manual safety and/or an external hammer.

When the Army issues pistols w/o manual safeties, you'll start hearing about those accidental discharges.

I can assure you that M2s that are mounted on trucks are not always pointed up and down range. But you are right that they are not in a holster like a pistol where the trigger is completely covered and the weapon is virtually impossible to fire. Don’t think that is helping your case here.

Actually the Army has been issuing pistols with out a saftey for quite a while now. As has 1000s of police depts. and other countries militaries. I can assure you that the vast majority of police have less weapons training then your average infantry soldier.

I would still like to hear your theory on how exactly all these ADs are going to happen. Explain the scenario where a soldier pulls back a 3.5 to 5 lbs trigger without realizing what he is doing.

 

[apdst]

I can assure you that M2s that are mounted on trucks are not always pointed up and down range. But you are right that they are not in a holster like a pistol where the trigger is completely covered and the weapon is virtually impossible to fire. Don’t think that is helping your case here.

Not 100% of the time, while they're hot, that's true, but more often than a pistol will be. If I saw one of my troops being careless with a hot M2, I'd rip some ass and probably find a new owner for that weapon.

Actually the Army has been issuing pistols with out a saftey for quite a while now. As has 1000s of police depts. and other countries militaries. I can assure you that the vast majority of police have less weapons training then your average infantry soldier.

Cops and soldiers operate in absolutely different environments. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I would still like to hear your theory on how exactly all these ADs are going to happen. Explain the scenario where a soldier pulls back a 3.5 to 5 lbs trigger without realizing what he is doing.

99.9% of all accidental discharges occur because a hot weapon didn't have the safety engaged.

 

[braindrain]

Not 100% of the time, while they're hot, that's true, but more often than a pistol will be. If I saw one of my troops being careless with a hot M2, I'd rip some ass and probably find a new owner for that weapon.



Cops and soldiers operate in absolutely different environments. You're comparing apples to oranges.



99.9% of all accidental discharges occur because a hot weapon didn't have the safety engaged.

So you wouldn’t rip some ass if you saw one of your soldiers being careless with his pistol. A pistol should be in its holster from the time it’s loaded until it is either being drawn to be fired or to be cleared so it spends more time in a safe unable to be fired condition ten am M2.

We were not talking about the environment you brought up how most soldiers have zero history using firearms. In that regard they are the same. And police will spend much more time unsupervised with their pistols then a soldier will. Not to many units allow their Soldiers to take their weapons home.

I noticed you didn’t answer my question. I think we both know why.

 

[apdst]

So you wouldn’t rip some ass if you saw one of your soldiers being careless with his pistol. A pistol should be in its holster from the time it’s loaded until it is either being drawn to be fired or to be cleared so it spends more time in a safe unable to be fired condition ten am M2.

We were not talking about the environment you brought up how most soldiers have zero history using firearms. In that regard they are the same. And police will spend much more time unsupervised with their pistols then a soldier will. Not to many units allow their Soldiers to take their weapons home.

I noticed you didn’t answer my question. I think we both know why.

You're still comparing apples to oranges.

Which question?

 

[braindrain]

You're still comparing apples to oranges.

Which question?

No it’s not. You just don’t like it because it shows how irrelevant your claim is.

When I asked you to explain the sensrio where all these ADs were going to happen.

 

[apdst]

No it’s not. You just don’t like it because it shows how irrelevant your claim is.

When I asked you to explain the sensrio where all these ADs were going to happen.

You might want to rethink comparing a cop to an infantryman. It doesn't help your credibility on this subject.

I already did: the absence of a manual safety.

 

[braindrain]

You might want to rethink comparing a cop to an infantryman. It doesn't help your credibility on this subject.

I already did: the absence of a manual safety.

Thank you for once again proving why you have the reputation you do on this site.


It’s hard to tell if your problem is simply dishonesty or your just not that bright.

 

[apdst]

Thank you for once again proving why you have the reputation you do on this site.


It’s hard to tell if your problem is simply dishonesty or your just not that bright.

Thank you for proving that you have no argument offer, since you resorted to insults.

 

[braindrain]

Thank you for proving that you have no argument offer, since you resorted to insults.

Is that why you couldn’t answer my question or had to pretend like you didn’t understand a comparison.

 

[apdst]

Is that why you couldn’t answer my question or had to pretend like you didn’t understand a comparison.

I did answer the question...twice. Don't get pissy because you don't like the answer.

 

[braindrain]

I did answer the question...twice. Don't get pissy because you don't like the answer.

No you didn’t. I know it your know it and everyone who reads this thread knows it.

It’s nonsense like this why everyone on this site thinks you are a joke.

 

[apdst]

No you didn’t. I know it your know it and everyone who reads this thread knows it.

It’s nonsense like this why everyone on this site thinks you are a joke.

Believe what ever bull**** your mind conjurs up.