Theocracy is the best governance form

[Fledermaus]

The Crusades were justified defensive wars against Muslim aggression.

The inquisition was a noble attempt to protect the souls of the people by eliminating heresy

The Crusades would have been a "defensive war against Muslim aggression" were they targeted at the "Muslim Aggressors". That is like Russia defending against German aggression by attacking Austria instead of defending Stalingrad.

And that doesn't explain the Crusades against other Christians.

And let's not start on indulgences....

And the Inquisition was initially to prevent conversos (Jews turned to Christianity so they weren't evicted from Spain) from reverting to Judaism. Later it rooted out "heresy" in richer Catholics by accepting penance and a few Pesetas on the side.

 

[Rumpel]

Why former Christian countries can not launch Theocracy again?

Like Iran? :roll:

 

[Rumpel]

The Crusades were justified defensive wars against Muslim aggression.

Here I agree with you.

 

[bomberfox]

Israel is just an example of a state successfully implementing theocracy.
God shall run all Christian countries

Except Israel isnt a christian country lol

 

[bomberfox]

In the Last Days all Bible reading church going born again Christians shall be united.

1 Corinthians 1

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Theres that antisemitism of christendom.

 

[bomberfox]

As you posted this thread in the DP safety zone of "Theology" I'll leave this thread with one last comment.

Your posts on this topic are sadly ignorant at best, on heading full steam into pathetically moronic.

Happy New Year !!!

He doesnt even know why liberalism cannot be socialist or communist by nature. Liberals created capitalism and ensure its survival.

 

[vegas giants]

The Crusades were justified defensive wars against Muslim aggression.

The inquisition was a noble attempt to protect the souls of the people by eliminating heresy

Noble???? Holy cow

 

[bomberfox]

Better countries will run by the Holy Bible and clergy, as corrupted perverse liars and thieves who nudge us in the WWIII

The Germans were still heavily christian.

 

[Felis Leo]

You sound like a lib.

That is literally what Moonglow he said he was, Alfons.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The Germans were still heavily christian.

Not the people who actually directed and carried out the holocaust however

 

[Felis Leo]

Israel is just an example of a state successfully implementing theocracy.
God shall run all Christian countries

Israel is not a theocracy. The religious leaders of Israel, while legally recognized as the chief authority over Judaism and holding immense sway over society do not lord over society or have the ultimate say over the decisions that the government makes. To draw a comparison between Israel, which is a secular democracy with heavy religious influence versus Iran which is a theocracy, I shall demonstrate the differences: The Chief Rabbinate of Israel does not run the military. The Supreme Leader Grand Ayatollah of Iran Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei does. The Rabbinate does not appoint or approve judges or government ministers. The Supreme Leader of Iran does. The Rabbinate cannot set forth criteria as to who is allowed to run for elections. The Iranian Guardian Council does (and the Council is ultimately under the control of the Supreme Leader). The Rabbinate does not have an army of loyal secret police answerable only to the Rabbinate and meant to root out dissenters against the Rabbis within Israeli society. The Supreme Leader of Iran does.

Claiming that Israel is a theocracy because it is an officially Jewish nation is like claiming that the United Kingdom is a theocracy because it is an officially Christian nation. It is actually a better argument to claim the United Kingdom is a theocracy than Israel because the United Kingdom's head of state is also the head of the Church. The same cannot be said of Israel; the Prime Minister is not also the Chief Rabbi.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Israel is not a theocracy. The religious leaders of Israel, while legally recognized as the chief authority over Judaism and holding immense sway over society do not lord over society or have the ultimate say over the decisions that the government makes. To draw a comparison between Israel, which is a secular democracy with heavy religious influence versus Iran which is a theocracy, I shall demonstrate the differences: The Chief Rabbinate of Israel does not run the military. The Supreme Leader Grand Ayatollah of Iran Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei does. The Rabbinate does not appoint or approve judges or government ministers. The Supreme Leader of Iran does. The Rabbinate cannot set forth criteria as to who is allowed to run for elections. The Iranian Guardian Council does (and the Council is ultimately under the control of the Supreme Leader). The Rabbinate does not have an army of loyal secret police answerable only to the Rabbinate and meant to root out dissenters against the Rabbis within Israeli society. The Supreme Leader of Iran does.

Claiming that Israel is a theocracy because it is an officially Jewish nation is like claiming that the United Kingdom is a theocracy because it is an officially Christian nation. It is actually a better argument to claim the United Kingdom is a theocracy than Israel because the United Kingdom's head of state is also the head of the Church. The same cannot be said of Israel; the Prime Minister is not also the Chief Rabbi.

Also in the UK you cannot become the monarch if you are not protestant Christian.

It is possible in theory a non-Jew can become the prime minister of Israel.

Obviously that’s not a direct comparison as there is no religious restrictions on the prime minister in the UK and Israel is not a monarchy.

I think the best comparison would actually be pre-revolution france or pre-Republican Spain, in these Ancien regimes the Catholic Church had special legal right and equal representation in the estates to the nobility and the commoners, but didn’t directly govern these countries

 

[NWO_Spook]

The Crusades were justified defensive wars against Muslim aggression.

That was the justification, but what was the first act of aggression in the First Crusade? Tancred the Norman sacked Thrace-territory under Byzantine rule-the very same Byzantium that appealed for aid against the invasions in the first place. They weren't the 'right' type of Christians, so they didn't matter.

The Alexiad of Anna Komnena is an excellent primary source for the period, and it demonstrates how the Normans responded to Alexios's appeal in order to invade Byzantine territory as a strategy to finalise their campaign against the Romaioi in Epiros.

 

[bomberfox]

Not the people who actually directed and carried out the holocaust however

Sure they did. Christianity was pretty much the state religion. Although the nazi party was duplicitous as all hell with a confused norse mysticism and christianity, it was all carried out with a gott mitt uns on the buckle. Another fact is one of the primary drivers of antisemitism in both America and Germany was the originator of the war on christmas CT.

 

[AmNat]

Unimportant whom you voting for, finally you will be cheated.
You give your vote to professional corrupted liars, mostly good-for-nothing, deviant, poor educated.
Do you see any improvement after election day?
Mostly anything stays the same, except small amount of people getting richer ( of course politicians )
Except less child births, more poverty, more drug addicts, more divorces, more insanity happens not much.
The system is wrong and does not work.
In USA, EU, Russia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. so-called 'democracy' failed and gradually came to a dictatorship of small groups of puppeteers or dictators.

The only remaining way would be to transform modern societies to theocracies.
The system is meanwhile very successfully applied in Israel.
Just google 'Theocracy in Israel'

Why former Christian countries can not launch Theocracy again?

All societies have official belief systems. In America ours is liberalism.

What you want your society to profess should depend on what you think is true. So if you believe in Christianity (or any other religion), you should want society at large to profess it, rather than a false creed.

 

[vegas giants]

All societies have official belief systems. In America ours is liberalism.

What you want your society to profess should depend on what you think is true. So if you believe in Christianity (or any other religion), you should want society at large to profess it, rather than a false creed.

So every small interest group demands the country be run there way.....and we get the compromise of America

 

[Questerr]

The Crusades were justified defensive wars against Muslim aggression.

The inquisition was a noble attempt to protect the souls of the people by eliminating heresy

Does that "justified defensive" claim also justify the Albigensian Crusade, the various Northern Crusades, or the 4th Crusades assault on Byzantium?

It is interesting though that you believe brutally torturing and murdering people because they have different religious beliefs is "noble".

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Does that "justified defensive" claim also justify the Albigensian Crusade, the various Northern Crusades, or the 4th Crusades assault on Byzantium?

It is interesting though that you believe brutally torturing and murdering people because they have different religious beliefs is "noble".

Yes, yes, and no.

Well if heresy causes people to suffer eternally in hell then it’s not exactly wrong to try to make someone repent of their heresy.
Now torture doesn’t truly work for this, and we know that now, but in the context of a society without the scientific research showing the ineffectiveness of torture, and in an era where common belief in God was a major thread holding society together and heresy was basically treason against the legitimate order, it wasn’t exactly an evil, merely a misjudgment.

 

[Questerr]

Yes, yes, and no.

Well if heresy causes people to suffer eternally in hell then it’s not exactly wrong to try to make someone repent of their heresy.
Now torture doesn’t truly work for this, and we know that now, but in the context of a society without the scientific research showing the ineffectiveness of torture, and in an era where common belief in God was a major thread holding society together and heresy was basically treason against the legitimate order, it wasn’t exactly an evil, merely a misjudgment.

Except plenty of people even at the time knew torture didn't work and that it was evil. The kings and bishops didn't care. All they cared about was their power and wealth and ensuring they had the control to maintain those privileges.

And you seek to return to a state where a lord and his priests answer to no one save themselves.

BTW, explain how the Northern Crusades against Lithuanian Pagans or the Albigensian Crusade against Cathars in Southern France were "justified defensive war" because of Muslims.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Except plenty of people even at the time knew torture didn't work and that it was evil. The kings and bishops didn't care. All they cared about was their power and wealth and ensuring they had the control to maintain those privileges.

And you seek to return to a state where a lord and his priests answer to no one save themselves.

BTW, explain how the Northern Crusades against Lithuanian Pagans or the Albigensian Crusade against Cathars in Southern France were "justified defensive war" because of Muslims.

Well those were justified defensive wars against subversive ideology/ pagans.

But when people talk about the crusades, they’re not talking about the crusades against the Cathars or the pagans.

 

[Lisa]

Well those were justified defensive wars against subversive ideology/ pagans.

But when people talk about the crusades, they’re not talking about the crusades against the Cathars or the pagans.

If you think that theocracies are so great then why don't you move to Saudi, Iran or Pakistan and live under that form of government because it will be a great day when the religious belief of all sects is only taught in history books under the guise of myths and ancient mistakes.


Thomas Jefferson said the same thing about your religion.

“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding...

{Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823}”

I am fond of this quote,

attributed to Diderot - co-founder of the Encyclopédie and one of the most notable figures during the Enlightenment: Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

Thomas Paine was on the right track with this quote about education being preferable to religion.

“One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.”

― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

 

[NWO_Spook]

Unimportant whom you voting for, finally you will be cheated.
You give your vote to professional corrupted liars, mostly good-for-nothing, deviant, poor educated.
Do you see any improvement after election day?
Mostly anything stays the same, except small amount of people getting richer ( of course politicians )
Except less child births, more poverty, more drug addicts, more divorces, more insanity happens not much.
The system is wrong and does not work.
In USA, EU, Russia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. so-called 'democracy' failed and gradually came to a dictatorship of small groups of puppeteers or dictators.

The only remaining way would be to transform modern societies to theocracies.
The system is meanwhile very successfully applied in Israel.
Just google 'Theocracy in Israel'

Why former Christian countries can not launch Theocracy again?

Submit to a theocratic government? Never! I would fight to the death before I let my country devolve into such a mediaeval condition, and I'm sure millions of other rational beings feel the same way.

Humanity deserves better than submission to such specious nonsense.

 

[Questerr]

Well those were justified defensive wars against subversive ideology/ pagans.

But when people talk about the crusades, they’re not talking about the crusades against the Cathars or the pagans.

Advocating authoritarianism is subversive in a democracy. Would it be justified to wage a "defensive war" against you and your ilk?

Who exactly had the Cathars attacked? Or the Lithuanians? Both Crusades were offensive wars aimed at destroying people simply because they didn't believe the same things as Christians.

 

[Bum]

Unimportant whom you voting for, finally you will be cheated.
You give your vote to professional corrupted liars, mostly good-for-nothing, deviant, poor educated.
Do you see any improvement after election day?
Mostly anything stays the same, except small amount of people getting richer ( of course politicians )
Except less child births, more poverty, more drug addicts, more divorces, more insanity happens not much.
The system is wrong and does not work.
In USA, EU, Russia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. so-called 'democracy' failed and gradually came to a dictatorship of small groups of puppeteers or dictators.

The only remaining way would be to transform modern societies to theocracies.
The system is meanwhile very successfully applied in Israel.
Just google 'Theocracy in Israel'

Why former Christian countries can not launch Theocracy again?

Because going back to a form of government responsible for little things like the Inquisition, repression of rights based upon lack of belief, heresy laws , witch hunts, and charming folks like the Puritans is such a primitive, cave dwelling mindset?

 

[Daisy]

Because going back to a form of government responsible for little things like the Inquisition, repression of rights based upon lack of belief, heresy laws , witch hunts, and charming folks like the Puritans is such a primitive, cave dwelling mindset?

That is not what true Theocracy is...it is governed by Jehovah God and His son, Jesus Christ, with 144,000 ruling with him as kings and priests...we've never been under a true Theocracy since the garden of Eden...