The Stupidity of AR-15 Bans

[TurtleDude]

A semi-automatic firearm with the highest capacity magazine and firing the highest velocity hard-cast bullets are the most effective. A mini-14 is an automatic firearm and not used in the mass shootings in discussion. No handgun that I no of has the mag capacity of an AW style rifle or bullet velocity.

wrong-mini 14 is semi automatic.

Glocks can be fitted with drum magazines that exceed most rifle magazines

hard cast bullets at rifle velocities quickly lead the barrel, especially if fired rapidly

bullet velocity, after a certain level, does not increase in lethality

You really demonstrate you haven't a clue about this subject

 

[Noodlegawd]

A semi-automatic firearm with the highest capacity magazine and firing the highest velocity hard-cast bullets are the most effective. A mini-14 is an automatic firearm and not used in the mass shootings in discussion. No handgun that I no of has the mag capacity of an AW style rifle or bullet velocity.

Wow, literally nothing in this comment is correct or relevant.

1. Whether a firearm is an "assault weapon" has nothing to do with the size of the magazine inserted into it, or the type of bullet that comes out of it.

2. The Mini-14 is not "an automatic firearm," and one was used in literally the worst mass shooting in modern history.

3. The word is "know," not "no."

4. There are very large capacity magazines for handguns.

5. There are indeed handguns that can fire rounds with muzzle velocities comparable to some rifles.

 

[bluesmoke]

Yes, I am saying, if you ban AR-15s and weapons like them it will have no effect on mass killings. The killer would just switch to a different weapon. I don't understand why that concept is so hard for people to grasp.

It also is not hard to grasp that use of a bomb is more complicated and adding the use of arson or an auto, all three are rarely used. It's easier to get a gun to where shooters more often go then is a car and in the absence of any gun killers more often turn towards sharp instruments than anything else, though with less availability of guns overall violence still goes down.

 

[daeler]

It also is not hard to grasp that use of a bomb is more complicated and adding the use of arson or an auto, all three are rarely used. It's easier to get a gun to where shooters more often go then is a car and in the absence of any gun killers more often turn towards sharp instruments than anything else, though with less availability of guns overall violence still goes down.

The only way banning guns would make any sense is if you ban them all. And the constitution prevents that.

People killed by rifles = less than 300 per year. But that is what you say is the most scary weapon.

 

[TurtleDude]

The only way banning guns would make any sense is if you ban them all. And the constitution prevents that.

People killed by rifles = less than 300 per year. But that is what you say is the most scary weapon.

He still hasn't addressed the fact that he made a statement that contained several glaring errors or outright lies. The hard cast bullets was a real gut buster.

 

[bluesmoke]

He thinks mass shooters are attracted to the scary features of certain guns, so presumably they wouldn't want to switch to a different weapon:



Brought to you by the Party of Science.

Regarding what “I think” in response to the poster you quoted, see my post #353.

With the same clip mag capabilities as an AR-15, anyone skilled can be just as effective with a semi-automatic rifle not having AW features like those banned by California. Mass shooters are more often choosing AW style rifles than ever before. Just like they are the most popular rifle among all gun owners in America. There’s a reason for that. It certainly isn’t for hunting, reasonably speaking. It isn’t for personal defense, as in CCW. AW rifles are listed in some “Best Home Defense” expert recommendations, though handguns and shotguns are the ones at the top and AW’s mentioned in case of multiple intruders. The great majority of break-ins are by a single intruder. Dogs and burglar-proofing the home prevents would work better in homes that only rely on guns to prevent the break-in from happening in the first place, which is why those measures are higher on the list of home protection than guns. So, why do shooters and gun owner buy AW style rifles, really?

 

[TurtleDude]

Regarding what “I think” in response to the poster you quoted, see my post #353.

With the same clip mag capabilities as an AR-15, anyone skilled can be just as effective with a semi-automatic rifle not having AW features like those banned by California. Mass shooters are more often choosing AW style rifles than ever before. Just like they are the most popular rifle among all gun owners in America. There’s a reason for that. It certainly isn’t for hunting, reasonably speaking. It isn’t for personal defense, as in CCW. AW rifles are listed in some “Best Home Defense” expert recommendations, though handguns and shotguns are the ones at the top and AW’s mentioned in case of multiple intruders. The great majority of break-ins are by a single intruder. Dogs and burglar-proofing the home prevents would work better in homes that only rely on guns to prevent the break-in from happening in the first place, which is why those measures are higher on the list of home protection than guns. So, why do shooters and gun owner buy AW style rifles, really?

Lots of reasons.

the AR 15 is one of the most useful all-around defensive weapons

If you have had military training, you know how to maintain an AR 15

Parts are readily available and due to the popularity-there are many good aftermarket accessories or improvements. There are at least a dozen companies making really good trigger units for AR 15s

It is easy to change out worn parts without being a gun smith

firearms that use military caliber ammunition are cheaper to feed

if there are massive instances of civil unrest, resupply of ammunition is easier when government agents are using a certain caliber. I read someplace that in Italy you can own military handguns and semi auto rifles but they are much easier to own if they are NOT military caliber because the government figures terrorists are going to try to get military weapons. So lots of Italians own AR 70 Beretta rifles in .222 and Beretta handguns in 9X21

 

[bluesmoke]

uh I can completely reload an eight round tube in under a few seconds. and I'd be carrying a couple 17 round handguns as backup. You see what you fail to understand is that active shooters PLAN when and WHERE they attack and what they are carrying. Gun bans don't stop those people, magazine limits don't limit what they carry. ALL MAGAZINE LIMITS DO, is handicap defenders

“uh I can completely reload an eight round tube in under a few seconds.”

Uh, in which case it’s fair to assume you could pop in a 30-round mag clip still quicker, eh?

“and I'd be carrying a couple 17 round handguns as backup.”

You should have said so to begin with. You already made your choice. Or did you think of it just in time and stop off at a gun store on your way to pick'm up.

“You see what you fail to understand is that active shooters PLAN when and WHERE they attack and what they are carrying.”

They do plan. You didn’t. You proved so by stating after the fact you need to add “a couple 17 round handguns as backup.” You’re out there now with a pump shotgun 8-round mag.

“Gun bans don't stop those people, magazine limits don't limit what they carry. ALL MAGAZINE LIMITS DO, is handicap defenders”

If mag limits handicap defenders, they handicap shooters. Duh. Of course, the shooters dumb enough to limit mag capacity to 8 rounds that have to be tube loaded are limiting themselves, most certainly, compared to popping in a 30-round mag clip.

 

[bluesmoke]

watch and learn.

Yeah. You can load two shot shells a time as quickly as you can a 30, 20 or 10-round mag clip into a rifle that's already in position to fire.

 

[bluesmoke]

You can buy extended drum mags for handguns. Those can hold up to 100 rounds. And does it really matter if the bullet is travelling at 1800 feet per second or 2300 feet per second?

At 3200 fps that goes through two people and into a third it is. But what you describe and most any semi weapon with a very high cap mag, easily reloaded, even a slow fps .45 will do an effective job.

 

[TurtleDude]

“uh I can completely reload an eight round tube in under a few seconds.”

Uh, in which case it’s fair to assume you could pop in a 30-round mag clip still quicker, eh?

“and I'd be carrying a couple 17 round handguns as backup.”

You should have said so to begin with. You already made your choice. Or did you think of it just in time and stop off at a gun store on your way to pick'm up.

“You see what you fail to understand is that active shooters PLAN when and WHERE they attack and what they are carrying.”

They do plan. You didn’t. You proved so by stating after the fact you need to add “a couple 17 round handguns as backup.” You’re out there now with a pump shotgun 8-round mag.

“Gun bans don't stop those people, magazine limits don't limit what they carry. ALL MAGAZINE LIMITS DO, is handicap defenders”

If mag limits handicap defenders, they handicap shooters. Duh. Of course, the shooters dumb enough to limit mag capacity to 8 rounds that have to be tube loaded are limiting themselves, most certainly, compared to popping in a 30-round mag clip.

time for an honest answer-for once

if normal capacity magazines are banned, who is more likely to be in a gun fight with a 10 round magazine

1) a criminal who already has violated several laws by merely having a firearm that he uses to assault a citizen

2) a citizen who is defending his home or business from a criminal attack

 

[TurtleDude]

Yeah. You can load two shot shells a time as quickly as you can a 30, 20 or 10-round mag clip into a rifle that's already in position to fire.

8 round shotgun, with #4 buckshot is how many lethal projectiles in 3 seconds (which is what I can leisurely fire 8 rounds off at)

vs a 20 round AR 15. well lets see. AR 15-20 lethal projectiles

#4 buck 33-41 projectiles X 8 rounds. Hmmmm

 

[dave8383]

time for an honest answer-for once

if normal capacity magazines are banned, who is more likely to be in a gun fight with a 10 round magazine

1) a criminal who already has violated several laws by merely having a firearm that he uses to assault a citizen

2) a citizen who is defending his home or business from a criminal attack

3) A cop

 

[dave8383]

8 round shotgun, with #4 buckshot is how many lethal projectiles in 3 seconds ............

Not necessarily. Depends on the distance, the spread of the projectiles at that distance, etc., etc. But it was a nice disingenuous effort.

 

[RF667799]

Not necessarily. Depends on the distance, the spread of the projectiles at that distance, etc., etc. But it was a nice disingenuous effort.

Lethality of an AR15 also involves variables. Therefore, an AR15 is not necessarily more lethal than a shotgun.

 

[TurtleDude]

3) A cop

so in your learned view- a magazine ban is most likely going to limit what a COP has?

 

[TurtleDude]

Not necessarily. Depends on the distance, the spread of the projectiles at that distance, etc., etc. But it was a nice disingenuous effort.

you're being untruthful. we are talking about active shootings where cowards attack unarmed people who are usually massed together.

 

[TurtleDude]

Lethality of an AR15 also involves variables. Therefore, an AR15 is not necessarily more lethal than a shotgun.

which is why men who were walking "point" in Nam or who are the first ones into buildings for entry teams is usually armed with a shotgun. and when we are talking active shooters attacking unarmed citizens in close quarters, a shotgun is far more lethal

 

[dave8383]

you're being untruthful. we are talking about active shootings where cowards attack unarmed people who are usually massed together.

Further, if the shooter is very close, firing a shotgun isn't very different from firing an AR because the pattern is small. But I understand your need to be less than honest.

 

[dave8383]

which is why men who were walking "point" in Nam ............................. usually armed with a shotgun. and when we are talking active shooters attacking unarmed citizens in close quarters, a shotgun is far more lethal

Usually? Really? I don't think so. Sometimes, yes, usually, no.

 

[bluesmoke]

This appears to be totally made up by you - can you cite any source for the "assault weapons" cannot be passed on to an heir or anyone else in CA?

You appear to be totally ignorant of CA law on this. You can read through all the ins and outs in the law, itself, and school your own self. You can own an AW the same as you can own a machine gun, etc., by special permit. They don't hand those out like candy, ya know.

Inheriting firearms, both within California and Interstate - Calguns Foundation Wiki

 

[ttwtt78640]

You appear to be totally ignorant of CA law on this. You can read through all the ins and outs in the law, itself, and school your own self. You can own an AW the same as you can own a machine gun, etc., by special permit. They don't hand those out like candy, ya know.

Inheriting firearms, both within California and Interstate - Calguns Foundation Wiki

The CA law simply says the grandfathered gun must be re-registered in the new CA owner''s name within 30 days of the transfer.

 

[bluesmoke]

wrong-mini 14 is semi automatic.

Glocks can be fitted with drum magazines that exceed most rifle magazines

hard cast bullets at rifle velocities quickly lead the barrel, especially if fired rapidly

bullet velocity, after a certain level, does not increase in lethality

You really demonstrate you haven't a clue about this subject

“wrong-mini 14 is semi automatic.”

I assumed the poster to mean whatever was most effective. The Ruger mini-14 comes in both a semi version and a 750 rpm fully auto assault rifle model. Since we were also talking AW’s. The semi mini-14 is not an actual AW nor AW style as it does not have any banned AW features, as in CA law, except the detachable clip. The fully auto version is an assault rifle. It just doesn't "look" like one.

“Glocks can be fitted with drum magazines that exceed most rifle magazines”

Yup. Up to 100-round twin-drum. As can any number of AW style rifles, like the AR-15. You can also get those twin drums for the Ruger Mini-14 and the M1A.

“hard cast bullets at rifle velocities quickly lead the barrel, especially if fired rapidly”

Properly lubed, they should not be a problem before the shooter is stopped.

“bullet velocity, after a certain level, does not increase in lethality”

Well, yeah. Both of two considerably different velocity bullets can go completely through the human body. A higher velocity bullet, though, can then possibly go through another and then into another. I mentioned the highest velocity, hardest-cast bullet for that one, though somewhat limited, advantage only.

“You really demonstrate you haven't a clue about this subject”

You really demonstrate you are desperate to prove me wrong on this subject which you pretend to know more about than you do.

 

[TurtleDude]

Further, if the shooter is very close, firing a shotgun isn't very different from firing an AR because the pattern is small. But I understand your need to be less than honest.

well we can dream up all sort of scenarios about where a shotgun is going to cause more damage versus an AR 15

but lets cut through your contrarian BS. Do you support private citizens being able to own AR 15s or do you support additional restrictions or even bans?

 

[bluesmoke]

Wow, literally nothing in this comment is correct or relevant.

1. Whether a firearm is an "assault weapon" has nothing to do with the size of the magazine inserted into it, or the type of bullet that comes out of it.

2. The Mini-14 is not "an automatic firearm," and one was used in literally the worst mass shooting in modern history.

3. The word is "know," not "no."

4. There are very large capacity magazines for handguns.

5. There are indeed handguns that can fire rounds with muzzle velocities comparable to some rifles.

“1. Whether a firearm is an "assault weapon" has nothing to do with the size of the magazine inserted into it, or the type of bullet that comes out of it.”

Yup. Did I say otherwise?

'2. The Mini-14 is not "an automatic firearm," and one was used in literally the worst mass shooting in modern history.'

My assumption was the poster meant what was the most effective, which would be the fully automatic version of the Ruger Mini-14, which is an assault rifle.

‘3. The word is "know," not "no." ‘

Thanks for the grammar corection.

“4. There are very large capacity magazines for handguns.”

Up to 100 round twin-drum which are after-market and not for what the gun is designed, which is for clip mags. Same with rifles, assault style or not. Like I said, that I “no” of for handguns. It would, though, seem rather clumsy extending out your arms holding 12 pounds out straight and steady to fire-away. Of course, you’re losing weight with every shot.

“5. There are indeed handguns that can fire rounds with muzzle velocities comparable to some rifles.”

Like what? A 5-shot revolver or a 4-round bolt action pistol?