The Religious Left

[SCitizen]

Should the State provide to all who want, all who need or just all.

The state should provide to all who need. Most people who seem lazy, are in reality disabled.

 

[SCitizen]

Jews do not believe that Jesus was a Messiah even though he was one of the most influential Jews. The same can be said about Karl Marx. But his idea that all people are entitled to food, housing, and medical care is 100% right. Socialism practiced in Scandinavia is the best system.

Many on the Left are closer to Communism then to Socialism. I agree with the Right on Freedom of Speech.

 

[_Sal]

Religion and spirituality have nothing to do with one another, never have; this is especially true for the male domionator god religions vomited up in the middle east. This is not to say that no one who calls him/herself religious can be spiritual however.

some people who are religious are spiritual...they are not mutually exclusive

therefore to say they have nothing to do with one another and never have would be incorrect

the historical Jesus was very spiritual, he founded a religion

 

[SCitizen]

I no longer claim to be Christian but I am a strong "believer"

Thank you. Belief in G-d is the main of the Seven Laws given to all people.

 

[_Sal]

Thank you. Belief in G-d is the main of the Seven Laws given to all people.

I agree

even when I lost faith in my church, I never lost faith in god, nor have I ever lost sight of god

I also have no problem with people who follow religion or even religious orders, many people need rules and directive...if that makes one a better human being, I support that

I also think there is much good in many of the teachings in most religions and we can all learn much from reading them "ecumenicalism" has value

 

[_Sal]

Thank you. Belief in G-d is the main of the Seven Laws given to all people.

interesting

thanks for these

The seven Noahide laws as traditionally enumerated are the following:[7]

Do not deny God.
Do not blaspheme God.
Do not murder.
Do not engage in illicit sexual relations.
Do not steal.
Do not eat from a live animal.
Establish courts/legal system to ensure obedience to said laws.

:thumbs:

 

[Fenton Lum]

some people who are religious are spiritual...they are not mutually exclusive

therefore to say they have nothing to do with one another and never have would be incorrect

the historical Jesus was very spiritual, he founded a religion

As I said, This is not to say that no one who calls him/herself religious can be spiritual however. Pretty clear? Perhaps not, try this; This is not to say that anyone one who calls him/herself religious cannot be spiritual however.

No. Jesus did not establish anything. Others saw the utility in establishing an authoritarian religious system based upon the spirituality of Jesus who didn't buy into any of the established religions of the day, but was influenced by the middle east male dominator god perceptual reality he was surrounded by.

But as belief systems go, no, the religious perceptual reality which is about guilt, sin, and blame has nothing to do with a spiritual perceptual reality which is about responsibility because you are connected to everything as opposed to presiding over everything for your god.

Christianity is an authoritarian belief system. This notion is that human beings are damaged goods merely for arriving (original sin); quite the psychological mind****. So therefore you must submit to this male dominator god. Gotta fear your god, gotta fear your Lucifer; fear, guilt, sin, blame. Humanity went off the rails once it began to envision the creator in human form. And we know this because it had to be spread through violence. On the North American continent this began when the euros made landfall and is within the genetic memory of the tribes it rolled over, but this perceptual reality rolled over the tribes of Europe first and was a very brutal and bloody business there, as it was here. “A war waged for the souls of the godless heathens.” Male dominator god religious perceptual realities provide license for the “real” god’s followers to exercise dominion over all living things, including other human beings. The Papal Bulls of the 1500s called for the ethnic cleaning of the Americas. That's why yuou will still here our exercises in the middle east referred to as a "clash of cultures", two male dominator god religions warring over whose god is "real".

 

[SCitizen]

I also think there is much good in many of the teachings in most religions and we can all learn much from reading them "ecumenicalism" has value

Definitely. As a Jew, I believe that non-Jews of Christian and Muslim faith will gain share in the World to Come by fulfilling the Seven Laws of Noah.

 

[_Sal]

As I said, This is not to say that no one who calls him/herself religious can be spiritual however. Pretty clear.

No. Jesus did not establish anything. Others saw the utility in establishing an authoritarian religious system based upon the spirituality of Jesus who didn't buy into any of the extablished religions of the day, but was influenced by the middle east male dominator god perceptuality he was surrounded by.

upon this rock I found my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it :shrug:

Mathew

 

[_Sal]

Definitely. As a Jew, I believe that non-Jews of Christian and Muslim faith will gain share in the World to Come by fulfilling the Seven Laws of Noah.

those laws are pretty basic to a decent human being

so you believe in an after life?

 

[SCitizen]

those laws are pretty basic to a decent human being

Many cultures before Monotheism did not subscribe to some Laws.

so you believe in an after life?

Definitely. As a Jew I follow a more comprehensive set of Laws -- including abstaining from electricity and Internet every Sabbath.

But I follow about 10% of the ritual Laws.

 

[_Sal]

But as belief systems go, no, the religious perceptual reality which is about guilt, sin, and blame has nothing to do with a spiritual perceptual reality which is about responsibility.

agreed

Christianity is an authoritarian belief system. This notion is that human beings are damaged goods merely for arriving (original sin); quite the psychological mind****. So therefore you must submit to this male dominator god. Gotta fear your god, gotta fear your Lucifer; fear, guilt, sin, blame. Humanity went off the rails once it began to envision the creator in human form. And we know this because it had to be spread through violence. On the North American continent this began when the euros made landfall and is within the genetic memory of the tribes it rolled over, but this perceptual reality rolled over the tribes of Europe first and was a very brutal and bloody business there, as it was here. “A war waged for the souls of the godless heathens.” Male dominator god religious perceptual realities provide license for the “real” god’s followers dominion over all living things, including other human beings. The Papal Bulls of the 1500s called for the ethnic cleaning of the Americas.

yes, I agree here too

 

[_Sal]

Many cultures before Monotheism did not subscribe to some Laws.



Definitely. As a Jew I follow a more comprehensive set of Laws -- including abstaining from electricity and Internet every Sabbath. But I follow about 10% of the Laws.

so you are a kosher Jew?

 

[SCitizen]

so you are a kosher Jew?

I am Conservadox -- I eat only kosher food, but my dishes are not kosher. I do not work or use Internet or Electricity on Sabbath or holidays.

 

[_Sal]

I am Conservadox -- I eat only kosher food, but my dishes are not kosher. I do not work or use Internet or Electricity on Sabbath or holidays.

thanks for sharing that, I appreciate it

would you mind explaining the reasoning behind the Sabbath's non use of Internet or electricity

 

[SCitizen]

would you mind explaining the reasoning behind the Sabbath's non use of Internet or electricity

Sabbath is a commemoration of Creation of The World. Sadly I am not an expert in Talmud -- thus I am not knowledgeable about the spiritual harm created by non-observance of Sabbath by a Jew.

 

[_Sal]

Sabbath is a commemoration of Creation of The World. Sadly I am not an expert in Talmud -- thus I am not knowledgeable about the spiritual harm created by non-observance of Sabbath by a Jew.

fair enough, but I appreciate the information shared

:thumbs:

 

[cpwill]

baking a caking (providing a service) is not the same as speaking one's belief

are words and action the same...no

yes

On the contrary, our actions often flow from or are restricted by our beliefs.

For example, observant Muslims will avoid pork products. It's against the teachings of their faith. It would be a violation of their First Amendment Rights to require Islamic Grocers to handle and sell pork products.

 

[_Sal]

On the contrary, our actions often flow from or are restricted by our beliefs.

For example, observant Muslims will avoid pork products. It's against the teachings of their faith. It would be a violation of their First Amendment Rights to require Islamic Grocers to handle and sell pork products.

no, there is no contrary.....our actions are a choice we decide to enact due to our thought process

providing a service is entirely different from our speech...you have the right to say whatever you think,

you do not have the right to act upon it without experiencing a consequence

 

[cpwill]

no, there is no contrary.....our actions are a choice we decide to enact due to our thought process

providing a service is entirely different from our speech...you have the right to say whatever you think,

you do not have the right to act upon it without experiencing a consequence

Thoughts flow from beliefs, and we absolutely have the right not to engage in trade that violates our beliefs. We even have a whole Amendment protecting individual autonomy in that area. We can no more rightfully compel a Muslim to sell pork than we can compel a woman to sell her body.

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[_Sal]

Thoughts flow from beliefs, and we absolutely have the right not to engage in trade that violates our beliefs. We even have a whole Amendment protecting individual autonomy in that area. We can no more rightfully compel a Muslim to sell pork than we can compel a woman to sell her body.

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so if I am black and the stores in my town don't want to serve me, then I have to drive however many miles it takes or move and you think that right should be protected?

 

[iguanaman]

IMO, there is a large divide between those who believe their good deeds matter and those who believe faith alone gets them the ticket to heaven. The former still hold to the writings, such as: love thy neighbor, feed the hungry, care for the sick, and worship quietly and in private. The latter rather stick their faith in everyone's face, crap on the poor, deny food to the hungry, ignore the sick, and do harm to any neighbor who dares toe a different line than them.

The religious right has been co-opted by the Republicans using the abortion and LGBT issues. They have been trained in partisan behavior and brainwashed by false memes to become weapon for the right. Religion really has nothing to do with the "power" of evangelicals, it is all in their votes. They are the only major demographic that is not disproportionately affluent where the GOP has a large majority. In other words they are mostly poor people that vote against their own best interests which makes them golden for the right wing.

 

[Whythink]

Thoughts flow from beliefs, and we absolutely have the right not to engage in trade that violates our beliefs. We even have a whole Amendment protecting individual autonomy in that area. We can no more rightfully compel a Muslim to sell pork than we can compel a woman to sell her body.

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You should not use religion as an excuse to discriminate.

I agree if you are consistent. The day a person refuses a couple for having the same address prior to marriage, or being married for a second time or someone because when quizzed, they admit to using the phrase GD.

Then I might defend religious liberty.

Until then, people need to stop cowardly hiding their bigotry and fear behind their bible. It is pathetic.

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[calamity]

The religious right has been co-opted by the Republicans using the abortion and LGBT issues. They have been trained in partisan behavior and brainwashed by false memes to become weapon for the right. Religion really has nothing to do with the "power" of evangelicals, it is all in their votes. They are the only major demographic that is not disproportionately affluent where the GOP has a large majority. In other words they are mostly poor people that vote against their own best interests which makes them golden for the right wing.

Yeah. I'm sure Jesus never said love thy neighbor except if he supports gay rights, abortion, birth control, and state sponsored programs which feed the poor and care for the sick.

 

[cpwill]

You should not use religion as an excuse to discriminate.

You have the right to adhere to your religious beliefs, so long as they do not take from others rights, without limitation. Someone else's opinion of the rightness of your exercise therein is irrelevant.

I agree if you are consistent. The day a person refuses a couple for having the same address prior to marriage, or being married for a second time or someone because when quizzed, they admit to using the phrase GD.

Then I might defend religious liberty.

Until then, people need to stop cowardly hiding their bigotry and fear behind their bible. It is pathetic.

:shrug: simply because you don't understand the belief system doesn't give you the right to stomp on those who adhere to it.

In the meantime, if you won't defend the rights of others, why should you exercise any?

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