The Real Reason for the MCU's success iis-- POLITICS!

[Ouroboros]

'Humor is the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down, but politics is what has given the Marvel Cinematic Universe lasting success.

Admittedly, it's the sort of loose politics that informs the films of Classic Hollywood, in which entertainment takes precedence over taking ethical positions. But when I compare most of the MCU productions-- starting with 2008's IRON MAN-- with the earlier Hollywood superhero movies, even the X-MEN films-- it's clear that the MCU guys know how to play to the American audience, piquing their political sensibilities without offending anyone too much.

Thus, BLACK PANTHER gets a lot of white viewers despite its one-sided attack on white colonialism, its silence on the role of North Africa in the role of promulgating slavery, and so on, because the MCU showrunners know how to press certain buttons and not others.

I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[KevinKohler]

Or it could just be that there are millions of 30-40 year old dads who read the comics in the 80s and 90s, which was the height marvel comics popularity...now getting to see those pages come to life on the big screen. As an added bonus, there is minimal vulgarity and blood, making it a fairly solid choice for us dads to bring our kids to see, as well. Except dead pool. Don't take your kids to see that.

 

[KevinKohler]

Take Harry Potter. Was the acting good? Nope. For the first 2 movies, it was atrocious. Story? Creative world, yes...but the plot is old and tired.

So what was it?

Simple. The books were hugely popular.

 

[CMPancake]

Oh Jesus Christ, I don't even know where to begin with all of this.

So Marvel comics back in their inception during the Stan Lee, Dikto era was used as a way to push forward new, progressive ideas on American politics. It doesn't take a Lit Major to see that the X-Men paralleled the civil rights movement (a parallel that only grows stronger during the Chris Claramont era of X-Men comics.) The Hulk, and Iron Man dealt with issues like McCarthyism, the Red Scare, and the evils of mega-corporations. Captain America himself was always portrayed as an American patriot who's ideals perfectly symbolize the American dream and how often that ideal clashes with the American government. So it is no surprise that when Hollywood set out to make movies starring these comic book heroes they did their research and added some sort of moral into the movie.

Secondly, morals and derived meaning from media isn't a new thing that those damn Hollywood Liberals are doing to corrupt the youth to snort condoms through their nose or whatever nonsense Conservatives have against Hollywood these days. Morals have been in stories and fables since the dawn of shared languages, movies, music, art, do not shape culture and ideals. They represent the culture.

Thirdly, Marvel and Disney as a whole are far from trying to make a political message through their movies. If they were, they wouldn't be so beholden to making their movies as appealing as possible to the Chinese market. Whatever money Marvel makes in US box offices pale in comparison to how much money they can make if their movie is greenlit by the Chinese government to play in their theaters. Because of that, Marvel/Disney movies will never truly portray the morals and meanings of some Marvel comics that they would want to. It's why the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 wasn't an evil Chinese man, it's why the original Sorcerer Supreme wasn't a Taiwanese, it's why you'll never see an openly homosexual Marvel character on the big screen.

 

[Ouroboros]

Oh Jesus Christ, I don't even know where to begin with all of this.

So Marvel comics back in their inception during the Stan Lee, Dikto era was used as a way to push forward new, progressive ideas on American politics. It doesn't take a Lit Major to see that the X-Men paralleled the civil rights movement (a parallel that only grows stronger during the Chris Claramont era of X-Men comics.) The Hulk, and Iron Man dealt with issues like McCarthyism, the Red Scare, and the evils of mega-corporations. Captain America himself was always portrayed as an American patriot who's ideals perfectly symbolize the American dream and how often that ideal clashes with the American government. So it is no surprise that when Hollywood set out to make movies starring these comic book heroes they did their research and added some sort of moral into the movie.

Secondly, morals and derived meaning from media isn't a new thing that those damn Hollywood Liberals are doing to corrupt the youth to snort condoms through their nose or whatever nonsense Conservatives have against Hollywood these days. Morals have been in stories and fables since the dawn of shared languages, movies, music, art, do not shape culture and ideals. They represent the culture.

Thirdly, Marvel and Disney as a whole are far from trying to make a political message through their movies. If they were, they wouldn't be so beholden to making their movies as appealing as possible to the Chinese market. Whatever money Marvel makes in US box offices pale in comparison to how much money they can make if their movie is greenlit by the Chinese government to play in their theaters. Because of that, Marvel/Disney movies will never truly portray the morals and meanings of some Marvel comics that they would want to. It's why the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 wasn't an evil Chinese man, it's why the original Sorcerer Supreme wasn't a Taiwanese, it's why you'll never see an openly homosexual Marvel character on the big screen.

Well, you're partly right that Marvel infuses its Silver Age comics with a lot more political content than most of the competing companies. However, it would be a mistake to say that they skewed liberal all the time, which is what I get from this post. Yes, X-MEN could be interpreted as a warning against right-leaning political extremism, particularly in the Sentinels stories, where a fanatic who fears the different-ness of mutants, unleashes his own robotic police force. However, Captain America was not particularly liberal throughout most of the 1960s. There's even a story in which Mao Tse-Tung sends an evil duplicate of Captain America to take the place of the hero. Iron Man and Thor both had adventures working against the Communist invaders of Vietnam, the FF fought Commies on the moon, and so on.

I never said that morals in movies was a new thing. In fact, I implied that what the MCU people are doing is right in line with Classic Hollywood. One can find some politics in both THE SEARCHERS and in WINTER SOLDIER, but neither of these are primarily political films. At the same time, WINTER SOLDIER raises a lot more questions about government power than any of the earlier X-MEN or SPIDER-MAN films from non-MCU studios.

I have no problem with the statement that the MCU filmmakers are also taking other countries into consideration. But this practice also goes back to Classic Hollywood. James Whale's last film for Hollywood was mercilessly chopped up to appease the Nazi regime because we weren't at war with them yet and business was just business.

 

[Ouroboros]

I started the thread talking about MCU, but I want to add that other shows follow the same agenda.

The current season of SUPERGIRL, for instance, is practically falling all over the liberal "refugee" position.

This season even reveals that the newly elected President of the U.S. (played by none other than Lynda Carter) is actually an alien masquerading as a human being, so as to create a blanket amnesty for alien refugees. And wouldja believe it: when the alien President is unmasked by evil "nativists," none of the good guys have the slightest problem with the alien Prez having misrepresented her nature to voters.

All's fair in love, war, and politics, I guess.

 

[Ouroboros]

One other detail I'll post about SUPERGIRL is that recent episodes did introduce a "bad liberal" who uses violence against jingoistic terrorists.

True, it's not meant too seriously when he introduces himself: "I'm the intolerant Left!"

 

[sangha]

Oh Jesus Christ, I don't even know where to begin with all of this.

So Marvel comics back in their inception during the Stan Lee, Dikto era was used as a way to push forward new, progressive ideas on American politics. It doesn't take a Lit Major to see that the X-Men paralleled the civil rights movement (a parallel that only grows stronger during the Chris Claramont era of X-Men comics.) The Hulk, and Iron Man dealt with issues like McCarthyism, the Red Scare, and the evils of mega-corporations. Captain America himself was always portrayed as an American patriot who's ideals perfectly symbolize the American dream and how often that ideal clashes with the American government. So it is no surprise that when Hollywood set out to make movies starring these comic book heroes they did their research and added some sort of moral into the movie.

Secondly, morals and derived meaning from media isn't a new thing that those damn Hollywood Liberals are doing to corrupt the youth to snort condoms through their nose or whatever nonsense Conservatives have against Hollywood these days. Morals have been in stories and fables since the dawn of shared languages, movies, music, art, do not shape culture and ideals. They represent the culture.

Thirdly, Marvel and Disney as a whole are far from trying to make a political message through their movies. If they were, they wouldn't be so beholden to making their movies as appealing as possible to the Chinese market. Whatever money Marvel makes in US box offices pale in comparison to how much money they can make if their movie is greenlit by the Chinese government to play in their theaters. Because of that, Marvel/Disney movies will never truly portray the morals and meanings of some Marvel comics that they would want to. It's why the Mandarin in Iron Man 3 wasn't an evil Chinese man, it's why the original Sorcerer Supreme wasn't a Taiwanese, it's why you'll never see an openly homosexual Marvel character on the big screen.

The text in red explains why the right hates Hollywood. It is not because Hollywood is pushing to change culture; It is because Hollywood represents culture

And the right does not

 

[Ouroboros]

The text in red explains why the right hates Hollywood. It is not because Hollywood is pushing to change culture; It is because Hollywood represents culture

And the right does not

But if (for sake of argument) one agrees that the MCU is piloted by Lefties, and if one agree with CMPancake that these particular Lefties are compromising their message to sell tickets in China, are the Lefties really being faithful to their social agenda? And how are their compromises different from comparable compromises by the Right?

 

[Keridan]

I love Marvel comics. I love the heroes and the stories. Or rather I did when everyone was still buying them because they pushed the agenda secondary to the story they wanted to tell. Unfortunately, they got into the same virtue signaling that a lot of arrogant entertainment providers do.

Unfortunately, the MCU has peaked. It will drop from here. They are ready to move beyond the great comics to the ones that tanked so badly MCU had to pull many of them.

When Marvel decided that "white man bad" and went on a rampage replacing all the popular heroes with some form of minority or female, they also felt the need to trash the original character in some way as they handed the mantle over to the new person. This didn't go down so well with folks who had enjoyed those characters and their honorable glory for years. Sales absolutely tanked on most of them. A couple times they started new series that did well and they also did no disrespect the the great Peter Parker when they introduced Miles Morales and so people accepted him.

Then MCU was there. All the original heroes. The stories and battles epic and the politics and social messages there, but second to the real story. It was glory days again. Add in some of the best actors possible for those roles and you had what my generation dreamed of.

Even Black Panther wasn't too bad. It was a bit preachy for my taste and over-hyped because it had all of 2 white guys. But it was just a good MCU story with good acting and a fun presentation with great effects.

Unfortunately, some of the best parts of the teams are leaving because they have been doing it so long (RDJ, Evans, possibly Hemsworth). And they picked one of the most boring and least interesting characters to step up and are trying to make her the most powerful creature ever. Brie Larson herself is a bit insane, but that's really secondary to how boring the character is in the comics. Her portrayal in the trailers so far reminds me very much of Kristin Stewart in Twilight, but even less emotion. They have also been hinting about some other ones, like Iron Heart that have not done so well.

The future doesn't look so bright for MCU. They are hinting at buying into the usual Hollywood virtue signaling, and that could mean we get the same preachy crap like ghostbusters and Oceans 8 that no one went to see.

Let's pray BP, Dr Strange, and a strained connection with Spider Man can hold it together.

 

[sangha]

But if (for sake of argument) one agrees that the MCU is piloted by Lefties, and if one agree with CMPancake that these particular Lefties are compromising their message to sell tickets in China, are the Lefties really being faithful to their social agenda?

Yes, because free speech

And how are their compromises different from comparable compromises by the Right?

I do not know of any comparable compromises from the right wrt MCU in China

 

[Ouroboros]

Yes, because free speech


I do not know of any comparable compromises from the right wrt MCU in China

I assume that when you draw comparisons between a left-leaning MCU and a right-leaning MCU, you're being facetious. I think this lack of veracity only weakens your original (and incorrect) point about the Left being the sole source of culture, but that's your business.

Should I assume that you deem it "free speech" whenever a network executive suggests something like, "Let's make that gay character less obviously gay, to please the straights?"

 

[pinqy]

Yes, because free speech


I do not know of any comparable compromises from the right wrt MCU in China

You mean besides the 2012 remake of Red Dawn, shed the invaders were changed at the last minute from Chinese to North Korean?

 

[Ouroboros]

Agreed on all your points, Keridan.

I'm wondering if the New Captain Marvel may prove to be a major, if not permanent, stumbling-block for the MCU. In most productions, the producers have been very careful to build up viewers' interest in new characters. This seems to be the first time they've just shoved a new character down the fans' throats without much preparation, which is the very thing so many fans faulted in DC's handling of its second-string characters.

I can understand the appeal of giving Marvel its own "Wonder Woman," but the fact is that the MCU's best works have built on characters who were established over decades and from whose stories MCU could pick what they wanted. Carol Danvers was never very well developed, either in her solo stories or in her team memberships, so that means that MCU may actually have to do something (gasp) original.

I've read some of the later iterations of the Danvers Ms. Marvel and I thought they were not bad. I also thought that the Muslim Ms. Marvel was a rare example of a "minority version" of a white hero that worked fairly well, though I admit I only read the first collection. I have not read any iterations of Danvers in her "Captain Marvel" persona, and I'm not encouraged by the rep of one of the prominent writers as a SJW type. But the biggest problem may be that it's not enough to simply give some woman super-powers and instantly give her the stature of "Marvel's Wonder Woman," just because the company wants to keep its hold on the trademarked name "Captain Marvel."

 

[sangha]

I assume that when you draw comparisons between a left-leaning MCU and a right-leaning MCU, you're being facetious. I think this lack of veracity only weakens your original (and incorrect) point about the Left being the sole source of culture, but that's your business.

Should I assume that you deem it "free speech" whenever a network executive suggests something like, "Let's make that gay character less obviously gay, to please the straights?"

I was not facetious, nor did I suggest the left was the sole source of culture. Merely the more dominant source in the US.

And the answer to your question is yes.