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The Pope Said It Best

nota bene said:
You're referring to the "lavender mafia." And it's important to note that in his recent comments, Pope Francis was referring to gay clergy.
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The Catholic church has a long and dark history of pedophilia and child abuse..

I'm sure he won't want to upset the apple cart!!
 
Really? How long is that long and dark history of pedophilia and child abuse? No need for super-specifics; the century will do.
 
nota bene said:
No, I'm not from Mars. And I wasn't raised in a barn either.

You and I seem to have very different concepts of time and what "long" means.
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OK..what does ''long''mean to you??

Yesterday??..Today?? ..or 3 minutes ago??
 
The hint was in the word "century." I'll give you another: "centuries," as in many.
 
tosca1 said:
That's what I was trying to say...that,

.....You're in a Religion topic about the Pope's statement. What is the Pope?
You must realize that this thread will be heavy with Biblical references, and Christian-based opinion.

Non-believer's "interpretation" would be irrelevant if those views seek to negate what's written in the Scriptures, and try to argue the Bible to be non-credible.
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It is against the rules to do that in the Religion forum.
 
head of joaquin said:
Personal attacks instead of reasoned debate of the texts at issue?

That happens a lot with doctrinal Christians faced with their heretical interpretations of scripture.
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Telling someone that he's telling himself what he wants to hear - how is that a personal attack? That can be true. Some people repeat things not for the sake of convincing others but more so to convince themselves.
 
wolfie said:
The Catholic church has a long and dark history of pedophilia and child abuse..

I'm sure he won't want to upset the apple cart!!
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Homosexual "pedophilia" to be specific, in most cases because the victims were minors. But it's not really pedophilia.
It's homosexuality that was the problem.

When the National Review Board released its findings in 2004 regarding priestly sexual abuse, Robert S. Bennett, the noted attorney who headed the study said, "There are no doubt many outstanding priests of a homosexual orientation who live chaste, celibate lives, but any evaluation of the causes and context of the current crisis must be cognizant of the fact that more than 80 percent of the abuse at issue was of a homosexual nature." Were they wrong to draw this conclusion?

One of those who served on the National Review Board, Dr. Paul McHugh, is former psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins. He is on record saying, "This behavior was homosexual predation on American Catholic youth, yet it's not being discussed." And we know why: there are penalties for telling the truth.

Roderick MacLeish Jr. was the Boston lawyer who pressed the case against the Archdiocese of Boston; he examined all the files on this subject. As reported by Michael Paulson in the Boston Globe, MacLeish concluded that "90 percent of the nearly 400 sexual abuse victims he has represented are boys, and three quarters of them are post-pubescent." Once again, the issue is homosexuality, not pedophilia.
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http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/...hs_issue_is_homosexuality_not_pedophilia.html
 
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For those interested, here is the full report:

THE NATURE AND SCOPE OF SEXUAL ABUSE OF MINORS BY CATHOLIC PRIESTS AND DEACONS IN THE US 1950-2002

A RESEARCH STUDY CONDUCTED BY THE JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE
THE CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK
FOR THE UNITED STATES CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS, WASHINGTON D.C.


In June 2002 the full body of Catholic bishops of the United States in their General Meeting in Dallas
approved the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People. The Charter created a National
Review Board, which was assigned responsibility to commission a descriptive study, with the full cooperation
of the dioceses/eparchies, of the nature and scope of the problem of sexual abuse of minors by
clergy. The National Review Board engaged John Jay College of Criminal Justice of The City University
of New York to conduct research, summarize the collected data, and issue a summary report to the
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops of its findings. This report by the John Jay College is
authorized for publication by the undersigned.


http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...nd-Deacons-in-the-United-States-1950-2002.pdf
 
wolfie said:
The Catholic church has a long and dark history of pedophilia and child abuse..
I'm sure he won't want to upset the apple cart!!
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Call a spade a spade!

We're not helping our youths if we don't address the real problem.
 
wolfie said:
Where are you from..Mars??

A little light reading for ya!!

Catholic sex abuse cases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Your source referred to the study that I gave above. Your source says:

The Catholic sex abuse cases are a series of allegations, investigations, trials and convictions of child sexual abuse crimes committed by Catholic priests, nuns and members of Roman Catholic orders against children as young as three years old with the majority between the ages of 11 and 14.

------

The report stated there were approximately 10,667 reported victims (younger than 18 years) of clergy sexual abuse between 1950 and 2002:
Around 81% of these victims were male.

Female victims of sexual abuse by Catholic priests tended to be younger than the males. Data analyzed by John Jay researchers, shows that the number and proportion of sexual misconduct directed at girls under 8 years old was higher than that experienced by boys the same age.[60]

22.6% were age 10 or younger, 51% were between the ages of 11 and 14, and 27% were between the ages to 15 to 17 years.[61][62][63]
A substantial number (almost 2000) of very young children were victimized by priests during this time period.
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Catholic sex abuse cases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
head of joaquin said:
Yep, Jesus said that if you want the law and its condemnation (a curse Paul calls it), I'm not going to prevent you from condemning yourself. But if you want grace, I stand at the door and knock.

Sound like you've chosen the Law and its condemnation. Poor choice.



Romans 7:4 - Likewise, my
brethren, you have died to the law
through the body of Christ, so that
you may belong to another, to him
who has been raised from the dead
in order that we may bear fruit for
God.

Romans 7:6 - But now we are
discharged from the law, dead to
that which held us captive, so that
we serve not under the old written
code but in the new life of the Spirit.


Galatians 2:19 - For I through the
law died to the law, that I might live
to God.

Galatians 3:10 - For all who rely
on works of the law are under a
curse; for it is written, "Cursed be
every one who does not abide by all
things written in the book of the law,
and do them."

Galatians 3:23 - Now before
faith came, we were confined under
the law, kept under restraint until
faith should be revealed

Galatians 5:4 - You are severed
from Christ, you who would be
justified by the law; you have fallen
away from grace.

Galatians 5:18 - But if you are
led by the Spirit you are not under
the law.

Ephesians 2:15 - by abolishing
in his flesh the law of
commandments and ordinances,
that he might create in himself one
new man in place of the two, so
making peace,


James 1:25 - But he who looks
into the perfect law, the law of
liberty, and perseveres, being no
hearer that forgets but a doer that
acts, he shall be blessed in his
doing.

James 2:10 - For whoever keeps
the whole law but fails in one point
has become guilty of all of it.
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you idea you to use the bible for you own ends, will be your undoing.
 
I believe that it was Shakespeare who observed that even the devil can quote Scripture. ;)
 
As contentious as so many debates are here at DP, I hope we can all at least agree that Shakespeare was frequently "apt"!
 
CriticalThought said:
Homosexual Acts: sexual behavior between two people of the same sex.

Homosexuality: a sexual orientation designated by sexual attraction to the same sex.

They are not the same thing. Even the Pope figured that much out. He won't judge a man for being gay, but he thinks homosexual acts are inherently disordered. Nobody chooses who they are attracted to, but people do choose whether or not they act on those attractions.
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Um, that has always been my argument......
 
head of joaquin said:
You are making a category error. No act is a sin itself, not after the advent of Christ. It is intent that counts. Charity don't out of hate and spite is a sin. Theft done out of love is a virtue.

People who act out of love may make mistakes, but they don't sin.
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Not at all what Christ or the Bible taught.
 
CriticalThought said:
Sex outside of marriage is sin. Imagine if people in this country treated people who have premarital sex or people who cheat on their spouse the same way they treat gays. All this talk about "homosexuality is sin" and yet the same people have so little to say to their peers who they know are out cohabitating with a partner they are not married to or are having sex with multiple people as they date to find the "right one". A lot of planks in peoples' eyes, but the fixation seems to be in the specks in the eyes of their brethren. And unlike with homosexuality, Jesus sure did make the time to say a thing or two about adultery.
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You are assuming I and others don't address those issues as well.
 
ernst barkmann said:
you idea you to use the bible for you own ends, will be your undoing.
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You mean quoting it?

Yeah, that' a problem for fundis and their desire to cherry pick and gloss what the gospel and the epistle actually says.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Not at all what Christ or the Bible taught.
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And of course you can't rebut what I said by actually quoting what the gospel or the epistles say. That's part and parcel of doctrinal Christianity and its ignorance of the actual scriptures.
 
tosca1 said:
You can distinguish between sincere intent and rationalization? You must mean, you can only assume.....
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You know them by their fruit.

Anyway, I take it you're saying Paul was wrong and that it's impossible to tell if a person is greedy but you can tell if they're gay. I would think the opposite.

But didn't Jesus say something about this:

Matthew 6:19 - "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal,

Matthew 6:20 - but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal.

Matthew 6:21 - For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also

So are you saying Jesus was wrong, and those who lay up treasure don't have their heart on it. It always comes down to denying what Jesus actually say with the doctrinal types.
 
tosca1 said:
Homosexual "pedophilia" to be specific, in most cases because the victims were minors. But it's not really pedophilia.
It's homosexuality that was the problem.
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This sounds like you're saying that pedophilia is OK as long as its not homosexual pedophilia. I hope you're not really saying that.
 
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