The ONE question that Mueller simply cannot answer.

[Moderate Right]

Of course they dont, thats what the have been told. Just like you were told that Right-wingers dont care Russia is attempting to undermine the United States. Sure you made that observation, but do you see what Im getting at here? How much of what we know and believe is a part of that attempt to undermine America? It is sounding like this was a big operation.

It is the left who have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker, allowing Russia to undermine our elections. The left are Putin's puppets and lap dogs, who lap up every crumb the Russians throw at them.

 

[Moderate Right]

Russia was investing more than a million dollars a month into the scheme.

And you can't prove one little tidbit that it actually changed the election results. But, it did undermine our elections because the left are foaming at the mouth because their horrible candidate lost.

 

[Moderate Right]

Pieces coming together, FBI says no influence of election, get out your crayons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not so sure they are up to using crayons yet. They are unable to color inside the lines.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Rosenstein said it didn't affect the outcome of the election.

That is unknowable and unprovable. I would avoid asserting that Russian interference did or didn't do something regarding the 2016 election outcome.

Let's just figure out what actions they took and try to prevent them from doing it again. Is that reasonable? That they did interfere isn't debatable - it's a fact.

 

[Moderate Right]

Yes it is Russians NOT influencing our elections that has us all upset. No one can know how many votes their propaganda campaign changed but we do know they were not doing it for fun.

Can you please tell us how the Russians actually influenced our elections. Every single source, up to and including Mueller, has determined that the Russians did not change the election results. In effect, they wasted millions of dollars accomplishing only turning the left into a huge pack of rabid dogs.

 

[Moderate Right]

How DOES one establish the effectiveness of a propaganda campaign?

How do you PROVE someone was psychologically manipulated? How would THEY know?

There must be some effectiveness or it wouldn't be a ten billion a year industry. Companies and political operations wouldn't keep practitioners on staff. Every political speech wouldn't be written using these techniques.

The industry uses polling, focus groups, etc to determine the effectiveness of their messaging campaigns.

They never promise hard numbers. Only predictable, repeatable percentages of a target demographic. Based on design and saturation of the messaging.

The fact its virtually impossible to prove, without some non-existant technology, means no crime can be charged.

Not that it didn't happen.

And don't forget.

The Russians only exploited the conditioning we have already been subjected to by domestic practitioners.

They did NOT lay the groundwork.

Mueller's investigation has shown that there is no evidence that the election results were changed. And, the fact is, Hillary and the DNC were crooked so if Russia did change the election results we owe them a debt of gratitude for letting us know how crooked Hillary and the DNC were.

 

[Grand Mal]

LOL. Yeah. Yeah. The investigation isn't over yet. It's right around the corner. Be patient. I'm curious if the left will ever drop that nonsense in 2024 or if they will still be saying the same thing, "Be patient. It's right around the corner". The left learned absolutely nothing from the Benghazi hearings where the right kept on saying the same thing.

Unlike the Benghazi investigations, this one is having results. And it's only just started.

 

[smallvoice]

Evidence of changed votes would be a good start.

Is THAT what Mueller's investigation announced? Wow, I missed that. In fact, It sounded more like he said the opposite, or at least that he didn't find any evidence.

 

[Moderate Right]

We could talk about trumps mental decline.

Please show proof of a mental decline. You guys on the left think that everyone on the right has "mental decline". Just because you don't agree with the other side's politics doesn't mean they suffer from mental decline.

 

[Greenbeard]

And, the fact is, Hillary and the DNC were crooked so if Russia did change the election results we owe them a debt of gratitude for letting us know how crooked Hillary and the DNC were.

We owe a foreign adversary "a debt of gratitude" for swinging our election. The modern right in a nutshell.

Genuinely curious whether any GOPers are still loyal to the United States at this point.

 

[Moderate Right]

When a President is elected solely by only 80,000 votes in 3 Blue States while losing the popular vote by over 3 million it is not hard to believe something went wrong with the system. Then you have the Russians helping Trump and Trump denying the facts while acting in every way like Putin's patsie. It is bound to be disconcerting don't you think?

Kool aid jug is getting down to the more concentrated liquid. Both Mueller and Rosenstein have said there is absolutely no proof that anything Russia did changed the election results.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I suppose it would be best for me to simply read this analysis once it is published. I have no training in the political sciences, so I know I'm speaking from a position from ignorance.


But even though I'm speaking from a position of ignorance, it seems to me that since the Russian campaign was a complex web of various activities it would be very difficult to accurately control for other factors in determining the specific amount of influence the overall campaign hand. They put out memes, fake news articles, deliberately biased opinion pieces based on actual news, etc. They had and have troll farms also making comments in various websites' comments sections and forums, and more. Given that it was an ongoing multi-pronged effort during an active campaign season, it seems like it'd be pretty hard to pin down the impact of various things they did.

(Unlike, say, the effect of a certain candidate's performance or presentation during a debate, or perhaps a particular response to one question, on poll numbers before/after that debate).

Have you ever been polled? That's how they figure it out. Beginning with an extremely effective device called an "exit poll", where people tend to be very honest and generously answer questions. There is a joke in data analysis classes: "if he's wearing red socks and brown shoes he's a democrat, but if he parts his hair on the right he's a swing voter."

We just had an election and the left wing NDP beat out the 16 year rule of the Liberals and formed a coalition with the Green Party....an unheard of proposition in this resource rich province. The polls now explain the results. Generally the voter was pissed off at the Liberals as life had gotten financially difficult for a lot of people while the Liberals bragged and bragged about a surplus budget, the fourth in a row...but the "liberal" vote had no where to go, so what did show up split their vote between the Greens and NDP.

The thing is, it takes a long time to draw up the poll, carefully review it for triggers one way or the other, then find enough people in the right categories in the geographic area and lay it on top of a map of incomes and you can get damn specific.

My guess is there WAS an effect, but because of the deceitful means of the influence its not showing up on polls, people may have been tipped over the edge by ONE fake item. Unless there is a full forensic the real "truth" will never come out.

 

[Moderate Right]

More correctly, how much of what we know and believe was manufactured somewhere HERE in the US and then exploited by the Russian operation.

The divide and animosity existed long before the Russian operation, brought to us by the persuasion industry, paid for by partisan political operations and special interests here in the US.

The russians just exploited this situation, they didn't lay the groundwork.

But they did use the same techniques and methods.

We would do ourselves a favor by looking at this industry and how it affects us as a nation.

Well, one thing we do know for sure is that Hillary and the DNC colluded with foreign governments to get dirt on Trump. The "dirt" on Trump is actually unproven while the dirt on Hillary (Wikileaks email hacks) were never denied by the left so, therefore, they must be true.

 

[iguanaman]

Kool aid jug is getting down to the more concentrated liquid. Both Mueller and Rosenstein have said there is absolutely no proof that anything Russia did changed the election results.

LOL There is no proof that the election results were not changed either. You cannot prove how propaganda may have changed votes.

 

[Moderate Right]

I have a better new dream.

Unwitting participants is exactly the same thing as useful idiots.

I'll take the trump team being useful idiots.

That would be winning!

You have been losing for about seven years now. I know it gets tiring.

 

[iguanaman]

Mueller's investigation has shown that there is no evidence that the election results were changed. And, the fact is, Hillary and the DNC were crooked so if Russia did change the election results we owe them a debt of gratitude for letting us know how crooked Hillary and the DNC were.

So you want to thank Putin and his hackers for breaking our laws to help Trump? How sweet...Trump feels the same way I'm sure. Who will tell us how crooked Trump was to use their help and lie about it?

 

[Moderate Right]

True but one of the reasons it undermines the faith in the electoral process is that I think it would be impossible to prove if it had an effect or not. How does one determine what may or may not swing somebody sitting on the fence or what may dishearten somebody just enough to not show up to vote? It wouldn’t have to affect a sizable portion of the population, just some key swing areas.

I’m not saying I believe it affected the outcome but it could have and that is why it undermines confidence. So I think it is important for us to take proactive measures to stop foreigners from spending money to affect our elections. Personally I want money out of politics altogether but until that happens we can at least enforce the law that prohibits foreigners from spending money on them. So I applaud the indictments as a start.

The thing is, the content of the hacked Wikileaks emails shows how crooked Hillary and the DNC were. That's something the left has never been able to overcome, constantly arguing that if the emails hadn't been hacked and released, voters would have never known how crooked Hillary the DNC were.

 

[Moderate Right]

Well then, then it has to be law!

No one has done any kind of forensic review. But then, in Trump world, saying so makes it so.

In the anti-Trump world, saying there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians makes it so, no matter how much Mueller and Rosenstein say that there was no collusion.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

It is the left who have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker, allowing Russia to undermine our elections. The left are Putin's puppets and lap dogs, who lap up every crumb the Russians throw at them.

That is the type of behavior that the Russians were looking for. Good job!

 

[Moderate Right]

Nobody ever claimed votes were changed.

The Russians were trying to change VOTERS.

How successfull they were may be unknowable.

But that was their intent.

So, what's the big deal then? If no votes were changed then Russia wasted their efforts and their money.

 

[Moderate Right]

Well said. Since partisanship is so important these days, our elected officials way too busy being Republicans and Democrats with no time to be Americans, perhaps the Russians have already won. They're probably laughing and having a grand old time watching all the shenanigans going on about the election these days. Just as they hoped and planned.

Yes. It is the left who have fallen through Russia's trap door.

 

[Moderate Right]

And he said that as nobody other than the most dishonest hatemonger/partisan would say that it did. One thing is absolutely certain, anybody else who was a front runner in that election would have also received the same kinds of attacks from the Russian et al whether that was Sanders or any Republican including Trump. There was no way in hell Putin wanted Trump to be President more than anybody else.

The objective was to create chaos and confusion in the process and it succeeded beyond belief with the appointment of Mueller and the Russian dossier and the focus on whether Trump colluded with the Russians for the past year. I spend a bit of time on Facebook and Twitter almost every day, and I am absolutely certain that there was as much negative garbage out there about Trump as was out there about Hillary.

So at least we know, from Mueller's indictment, that the Russians were putting out ads mostly negative re Hillary. That lets the GOP at least somewhat off the hook yes? But who was putting out the garbage on Trump? Nobody to let the Democrats off the hook there.

One thing that nobody has really ever considered is the possibility that Russia was doing all this thinking that Hillary was going to win and hoping that it would be the right and Trump's base who turned totally rabid at their election loss and would be doing all the very same things that the rabid left is doing now.

 

[Moderate Right]

Unlike the Benghazi investigations, this one is having results. And it's only just started.

The Benghazi investigation led to the email investigation which would have led to results. Let's not forget that Hillary people were given immunity deals and that several others pleaded the fifth, leaving almost no one left to actually indict except for Hillary herself, who had the deck stacked in her favor, with a biased FBI and culminating in Loretta Lynch's meeting with Bill Clinton to talk about "golf and grandkids".

 

[Moderate Right]

We owe a foreign adversary "a debt of gratitude" for swinging our election. The modern right in a nutshell.

Genuinely curious whether any GOPers are still loyal to the United States at this point.

I'm not understanding how they are an adversary if they helped voters realize how crooked Hillary and the DNC were. They did voters a favor.

 

[Fearandloathing]

In the anti-Trump world, saying there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians makes it so, no matter how much Mueller and Rosenstein say that there was no collusion.

This is why I ignore you.

Nothing but spewed, two bit, memes and talking points; the usual smear tactics. "there was no collusion!" "there was no collusion!" "there was no collusion!" hurled at me two and three times daily and I've never said anything about "collusion" I don't care about "collusion" and, truth be known, I don't care what happens there. Other than NAFTA there is no impact on my life. I'm only here for the entertainment value.

And, please, I don't "hate" Trump. It's impossible to hate someone you feel sorry for. He must have an incredibly horrid life having to lie about himself, his integrity, accomplishments and sexual practices at every turn. When it's not pity, it's three stooges humor