The Myth of Yeshua Ben Jacob [W:314]

[Daisy]

I think you're delusional and irrational. One of us has evidence. Guess which one.

That would be me...you have proven how fake you are with your posts...

 

[Cephus]

That would be me...you have proven how fake you are with your posts...

:roll: The insane never know how insane they are. Luckily, everyone else knows. Keep on proving it to the world.

 

[Daisy]

:roll: The insane never know how insane they are. Luckily, everyone else knows. Keep on proving it to the world.

Irony at it's best...you're merely looking for an argument to fill your boring day...:2wave:

 

[zyzygy]

That would be me

When are you going to present some of this evidence?

 

[Cephus]

When are you going to present some of this evidence?

Never, of course.

 

[RAMOSS]

I never "proved" nor insinuate Carbon-14 testing is an invalid form of dating a sample taken from an object. You didn't watch any of the videos did you? The issue is that--and its accepted fact now because pieces of the samples were kept for any future testing, so they went back and looked at them under microscope--the samples were mixed woven with cotton (and the cotton was then dyed) from a repair made during the Middle Ages. Textile experts even confirmed from images submitted to them that it looked like a mixed weave from a repair. But then thy went under microscope.

The established protocol the team of scientist made (if I recall correctly from that priest in a video I posted) was that 7 samples were to be taken from 7 different locations of the Shroud. And taken under some sort of checks and balance observation the team of scientist made prior to even going to Italy. However, those scientist that were given the task of taking the sample did it when no one was around (insinuated by scientist Roy Rogers), and then took it from the worst possible location on the Shroud, the area that had received a repair during the Middle Ages.

There aren't any "debunks" of the Shroud. Excepted the Carbon-14 dating test but it is now accepted that the samples were contaminated with cotton threads from the Middle Ages.






Let me bring you up to speed to the 21st century. It's called use of video. Even with the typed word if you sit in modern massive sized lecture hall in a science course today you'll have to use modern technology, you'll be answering questions, quizzes in the lecture hall with use of a "clicker" or your cellphone or tablet. Information is no longer simply disseminated by the 19th century typed word on paper.

Here... an actual medical doctor giving a lecture on the Shroud. Your eyes and ears are engaged in the information he presents.

I have substantially looked at all the claims from the shroud believers, and frankly, each and every one has been answered , repeatedly, and shown their 'concerns' are a big fraud and mistake. A medical doctor is nt the same as a forensic scientist.

Each objection to the C-14 carbon dating has been countered and shown to be an invalid concern. Every concern from 'they did the areas that got repaired', to 'contamination' etc etc etc.

The extent that the shroud believers will twist things in attempting to justify their faith is astounding.

And, the claim that 'it has been accepted that the shroud had been contaiminated by cotton threads in the middle ages' is only accepted by the Shroud believers. It's a lie though.. because when the procedures that were reviewed on taking the samples , it was noted in the original article that great care was taken to take samples that were away from the repair areas.

You are accepting misinformation from extremely biased sources.

 

[RAMOSS]

I think you are a fake...lol...

Well, there is objective evidence to that effect. Some things there are no evidence for.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

I don't know about anyone else but I certainly don't need a piece of cloth with blood on it, to prove to me that Jesus is real or to put my faith in him...

Here's my problem with entertaining these "video proofs":

google : youtube shroud of turin video - returns "About 364,000 results"

Yeah, I'm going to bother with some speck in that haystack without some justification.

Most of them seem to be debunks, both from the theist and from the atheist perspective.

 

[FastPace]

Here's my problem with entertaining these "video proofs":

None of them were video "proofs." The only one's that construct "proofs" are philosophers/logicians and if I remember correctly mathematicians.

The videos were educated men of science explaining the properties of the Shroud. You had scientist from reputable centers of research like Los Alamo's that studied the Shroud. People from all different fields have studied the Shroud.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Alamos_National_Laboratory

Los Alamos National Laboratory (Los Alamos or LANL for short) is a United States Department of Energy national laboratory initially organized during World War II for the design of nuclear weapons as part of the Manhattan Project. It is located a short distance northwest of Santa Fe, New Mexico in the southwestern United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Rogers

Raymond N. Rogers (1927–2005) was an American chemist who was considered a leading expert in thermal analysis. To the general public, however, he was best known for his work on the Shroud of Turin.

Rogers was born in Albuquerque, New Mexico. At the University of Arizona he studied chemistry receiving a BS in 1950. From 1951 to 1988 he was an explosives research expert and thermal analyst with the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory (later called Los Alamos National Laboratory or LANL).

The man that studied the blood on the Shroud:

* Alan D. Adler; Chemist Studied Shroud of Turin - latimes

Alan D. Adler, 68, a blood chemistry expert who investigated the Shroud of Turin. The shroud, which many believe was Christ's burial cloth, bears a faded image of a bearded man and what appear to be bloodstains that coincide with Christ's crucifixion wounds. The controversial 13-foot-long linen cloth has been kept in the city of Turin, Italy, since 1578. Asked by the Vatican to investigate the claims, Adler established in 1988 that the shroud image was that of a person and that the blood came from violently inflicted wounds. He said such blood has an identifiable chemistry. But he was unable to prove whether the image on the shroud was Christ's.

Alder at the time, supposedly, was not only an expert on the chemistry of blood but the foremost expert in the world on the chemistry of blood. These were not religious nutcases that worked on the Shroud. Most figured they would look at it and by the end of 1 day have debunked the whole Shroud. Instead, they were left puzzled at how the Shroud could have obtained all its properties (not just one).

Most of them seem to be debunks, both from the theist and from the atheist perspective.

None, nada, have debunked the Shroud. You keep saying it but that does not make it true. Those debunkers are the equivalents of creationist in science.

In this video the doctor explains a bunch of things. One of them is that over something like 400 points of blood are on the Shroud. When they lifted blood off the cloth no image was under it. In other words suppose a forger made the Shroud, they pout over 400 points of blood spots down first, then set about to make the image of the body.

But then assuming that was miraculously possible for an artist to do how did they create the image with the heat process most debunkers use without negatively effecting the blood they first put down on the cloth?

It's not even a matter of that it is a matter of many different things. Grains, dirt, from specific regions (like Jerusalem, or Constantinople). And I know modern forensic investigators can do this while investigating modern day homicides. Science has gotten so good today it can tell what location on earth the water in your glass came from (I remember reading this in a popular science book marketed to lay people like myself, a couple years ago).

The doctor goes over the major "debunking arguments" with their images and explains the problems they have.

This one video is probably the best on the Shroud I have watched thus far.

The Most Comprehensive Presention on the Shroud on YouTube 4

Published on Mar 8, 2016

Dr. William Guy discusses the Shroud of Turin. In part 4 he covers the question of how the image could have been transferred to the cloth and analyzes various forgery hypotheses.

 

[RAMOSS]

None of them were video "proofs." The only one's that construct "proofs" are philosophers/logicians and if I remember correctly mathematicians.

The videos were educated men of science explaining the properties of the Shroud. You had scientist from reputable centers of research like Los Alamo's that studied the Shroud. People from all different fields have studied the Shroud.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Alamos_National_Laboratory




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Rogers






The man that studied the blood on the Shroud:

* Alan D. Adler; Chemist Studied Shroud of Turin - latimes


Alder at the time, supposedly, was not only an expert on the chemistry of blood but the foremost expert in the world on the chemistry of blood. These were not religious nutcases that worked on the Shroud. Most figured they would look at it and by the end of 1 day have debunked the whole Shroud. Instead, they were left puzzled at how the Shroud could have obtained all its properties (not just one).





None, nada, have debunked the Shroud. You keep saying it but that does not make it true. Those debunkers are the equivalents of creationist in science.

In this video the doctor explains a bunch of things. One of them is that over something like 400 points of blood are on the Shroud. When they lifted blood off the cloth no image was under it. In other words suppose a forger made the Shroud, they pout over 400 points of blood spots down first, then set about to make the image of the body.

But then assuming that was miraculously possible for an artist to do how did they create the image with the heat process most debunkers use without negatively effecting the blood they first put down on the cloth?

It's not even a matter of that it is a matter of many different things. Grains, dirt, from specific regions (like Jerusalem, or Constantinople). And I know modern forensic investigators can do this while investigating modern day homicides. Science has gotten so good today it can tell what location on earth the water in your glass came from (I remember reading this in a popular science book marketed to lay people like myself, a couple years ago).

The doctor goes over the major "debunking arguments" with their images and explains the problems they have.

This one video is probably the best on the Shroud I have watched thus far.

Yes let's talk about Raymond Rogers.

He, in his own laboratory, came up with a brand new dating method that the Shroud people swear by,, dealing with the presence of of an organic substance.


That work is 100% pseudoscience, and has been absolutely and totally refuted. It just does not work. Yet, the shroud believers use that work to this entire day. The entire shroud believing industry is based on pseudoscience.. wishful thinking, and using the pre-assumption the shroud is authentic.

 

[FastPace]

I have substantially looked at all the claims from the shroud believers, and frankly, each and every one has been answered , repeatedly, and shown their 'concerns' are a big fraud and mistake. A medical doctor is nt the same as a forensic scientist.

You haven't looked at anything substantially. Sell that lie to someone else. Nothing has been proven to be a fraud. The only "fraud" are these debunkers who are in fact equal to creationists.

Each objection to the C-14 carbon dating has been countered and shown to be an invalid concern. Every concern from 'they did the areas that got repaired', to 'contamination' etc etc etc.

It has been countered with creationist-like nonsense. You can't have tampered evidence as "evidence." Would not even hold up in a court of law, un-tampered with blood evidence might not even be admissible in a court of law if it was shown the chain of custody was violated. And that would be blood from a potential murderer that didn't even result in the blood itself being tampered with. So, any samples taken for Carbon-14 dating can't have contamination from any material dating from the Middle Ages. Not rocket science. And the samples taken from the Shroud did.

The extent that the shroud believers will twist things in attempting to justify their faith is astounding.

I'm a believer in the Shroud's authenticity the same way I'm a believer in Caitlyn Jenner being a biological male or that human life, genetically identified as human (as opposed to being a bird, lion, canine), with respects to an impregnated woman begins at conception or when the egg is fertilized, because I use reason. I'm rational.

Too many lines of evidence point to the Shroud as being the burial cloth of Jesus. If it was forged in the Middle Ages no forger would have planted microscopic grains from Jerusalem, Edessa, on the cloth because they figured in the 20th and 21st Century scientist would have the technology to look for that. I've already taken a university course in forensic science (in the Anthropology department), 2 actually, and I know we have forensics scientists today that can find out where a body or corpse had been previously due to bugs or plant pollen. These same forensic investigative techniques have been employed on the Shroud.

The mud around the heel of the Shroud, tested, and conclusion the Palestine region I believe it was.

The guy is employed as a medical doctor but he has a science background and has studied the Shroud too. Nothing crazy. I had an Anthropology grad student at my public university running Anatomy and Physiology lab I was in.

And, the claim that 'it has been accepted that the shroud had been contaiminated by cotton threads in the middle ages' is only accepted by the Shroud believers. It's a lie though.. because when the procedures that were reviewed on taking the samples , it was noted in the original article that great care was taken to take samples that were away from the repair areas.

It's not a lie. Ray Rogers was certain it was a lie and went to prove the suspensions were a lie. So, he pulled out his own samples he kept. And to his utter surprise the textile experts and lay critics were correct. He found cotton fibers mixed in with the other fibers of the sample when he looked at them under microscope. All the other samples were the same way. They all kept some samples, they destroy all of them in the Carbon-14 test. Not my opinion or words Ray Rogers in is video stating it. But of course you don't know that because you did not watch any of the videos.

You are accepting misinformation from extremely biased sources.

I'm receiving information from credible sources. One has the free will to deny truth and call Caitlyn Jenner a biological woman and the Shroud a fake. That's a choice.



His lecture covering the creationist-like "debunkers" (because that's exactly what they are except creationist probably use more reasoning skills than these debunkers).

The Most Comprehensive Presention on the Shroud on YouTube 4

Published on Mar 8, 2016

Dr. William Guy discusses the Shroud of Turin. In part 4 he covers the question of how the image could have been transferred to the cloth and analyzes various forgery hypotheses.

 

[FastPace]

Yes let's talk about Raymond Rogers.

He, in his own laboratory, came up with a brand new dating method that the Shroud people swear by,, dealing with the presence of of an organic substance.


That work is 100% pseudoscience, and has been absolutely and totally refuted. It just does not work. Yet, the shroud believers use that work to this entire day. The entire shroud believing industry is based on pseudoscience.. wishful thinking, and using the pre-assumption the shroud is authentic.

What are you even talking about? You're speaking in jibberish. And creating a strawman.

I'm fine with using a Carbon-14 test and would like another one performed. But what is more important are the properties of the Shroud. No modern man has been able to reproduce all of them--and there are many.

Just 2 modern people need to do is lay out over 400 points of blood on the cloth and then create the Shroud image after than on that same cloth. Just do those 2 combined.


Nada.

 

[RAMOSS]

You haven't looked at anything substantially. Sell that lie to someone else. Nothing has been proven to be a fraud. The only "fraud" are these debunkers who are in fact equal to creationists.



]

I find it interesting that you make that claim.. yet.. nothing you present is, you know, substantial.

 

[RAMOSS]

What are you even talking about? You're speaking in jibberish. And creating a strawman.

I'm fine with using a Carbon-14 test and would like another one performed. But what is more important are the properties of the Shroud. No modern man has been able to reproduce all of them--and there are many.

Just 2 modern people need to do is lay out over 400 points of blood on the cloth and then create the Shroud image after than on that same cloth. Just do those 2 combined.


Nada.

You know.. you are giving false information. And, no, .. the method used to detect 'blood' was done by people who were not in the medical field, and was testing for the presence of iron. Walter McCrone, the forensic investigator who was hired by STRUP to examine it showed it was red ocher paint, and their method would detect the iron in the paint.

https://mcri.org/v/293/The-Latest-Shroud-Update

as for it being reproduced.. why, yes it has been, using techniques that were available and in practice in the 14th century

Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin | Reuters

 

[FastPace]

I find it interesting that you make that claim.. yet.. nothing you present is, you know, substantial.

Don't project. And it's more than ironic you feel you are qualified to preach about the Shroud, to interpret the information to determine if it is a forgery from the Middle Ages, but the medical doctor in the video is not.

Unlike you that doctor is moved in reason and investigation akin to any atheist or Christian that accepts the Theory of Evolution. Don't know what I mean do you? That's because you're akin to Evolution debunkers known as creationists. Both of you attribute a false starting point and motive to their critic which inherently leads you misunderstand their reasoning based on the evidence they interpret.

 

[FastPace]

You know.. you are giving false information. And, no, .. the method used to detect 'blood' was done by people who were not in the medical field, and was testing for the presence of iron. Walter McCrone, the forensic investigator who was hired by STRUP to examine it showed it was red ocher paint, and their method would detect the iron in the paint.

https://mcri.org/v/293/The-Latest-Shroud-Update

Wrong. #1 You don't have to be in the medical field to test for blood--or genome type--biologists and various other scientist can do that. #2 Not only was blood found they know what Blood Type it is: AB+.

The exact same blood type on a separate cloth believed to have covered the face of Jesus in the tomb--known to date back to at least the 5th century I think--which also matches blood patterns on the Shroud. Mathematical probability?

Oh look, 21st century technology, youtube videos you can actually see the blood pattern being matched (as opposed to the 19th century technology of the typed word--the same technology used for the Biblical Genesis story). Imagine that... it's not the year 1817 but the year 2017.

BBC video (hardly a source of pro-Christianity): blood patterns matched begin roughly at the 35:45 mark of video.

as for it being reproduced.. why, yes it has been, using techniques that were available and in practice in the 14th century

Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin | Reuters

I read quickly over that article you linked. An assertion is not a reproduction. He did not reproduce the Shroud I could tell that just by his description. He reproduced--and only partially not fully--one property of the Shroud. The image. Using heat. But heat produces too much saturation and not the level of image depth (going into vanishing points as I believe artist call it) the Shroud has. But there are many other properties to the Shroud. As I said... there is no image under the blood.

Why is that important? Because the hypothesis is that a form of light (some form of radiation I do not understand, but some scientist hypothesis it was that kind of radiation) burst in fractions of a second (not even a full second elapsed) and while it caused the image on the Shroud it did not penetrate through the blood on the Shroud.

So, your idiot neo-creationist scientist you linked to would have to place blood (human blood) on his shroud fabric first, then create the image after heating up a relief to high enough temperatures it would burn a human arm, and then lay the blood stained fabric over the hot relief without the heat negatively impacting the blood.

Type AB+ blood--which is my blood type--is rare on earth (I first found this out when I entered the US military because you are informed of your blood type, but much later I was informed about this again in a college biology course). Now, I'm no expert on blood types but according to one of those videos AB type blood is more prevalent in the Middle East than it is in Europe.

So, a forger from the Middle Ages knowing nothing about human blood types, or how to test for them, and knowing nothing about the forensic science of identifying the molecular ID of were pollen grains come from, knowing nothing about forensic pathology of piercings through x area of the wrist (art of the Middle Ages had nails going through the palms of Jesus without penetrating the wrists) causes the thumb of a person to turn inward, knowing nothing of Roman crucifixions driving the nails through the heel area of the foot (which forensic pathologist identified happened to the person on the Shroud)... et cetera it goes on... in his or her brilliance made the image on the Shroud to fool "dumb" Christians of the Middle Ages and had the foresight to plant all that to deceive modern man in the 21st century.

 

[FastPace]

Addition to Post #791:



The earth--planet earth--has many properties to it. If one stated there is no other planet in the Milky Way Galaxy like planet earth then some debunkers emerged arguing otherwise. Coming up with argument like: "There are other planets with rocks on them." That does not disprove the assertion about the uniqueness of the Shroud when a the total of its properties are taken together. Not one property.

The scientist that study the Shroud contrary to what the debunkers think are not out to prove the Shroud. They are out to use the scientific method to unravel how the Shroud was created. Ergo my point about the hypothesis of a form of light causing it. Now, like those scientist that have studied Evolution or different plant species on earth have come to believe in the Theory of Evolution or at minimum accept it as the most likely explanation thus far, so to a number of scientist have come to be persuaded that the Shroud most likely did cover the body of the historical Jesus.

Whereas the debunkers called creationist and the debunkers called the anti-Shroud folks are on a reactive position, trying to disprove the Theory of Evolution or the authenticity of the Shroud.

Am I an evolutionary scientist? No. Do I accept the Theory of Evolution as currently producing the best explanation for the unity and diversity of all life on earth? Yes. Am I a scientist that studies the Shroud? No. Do I accept that the Shroud has compelling and unique properties that scientist have yet to fully unravel, that multiple lines of evidence point to the Shroud having covered the historical body of Jesus? Yes.

 

[FastPace]

National Geographic has it correct when it quotes a scientists speaking of the faith of believer or the faith of skeptics.


Why would a artist from the Middle Ages go through all the trouble of making a the Shroud image a photographic negative, that is seen by the observer looking at the drapped cloth on display as a photographic positive? Only when photographed with a camera does the photographic negative come out and the image brought to more visual clarity.


Why Shroud of Turin's Secrets Continue to Elude Science

Why Shroud of Turin's Secrets Continue to Elude Science

As the venerated relic goes on public exhibition, its origin remains a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

By Frank Viviano,

National Geographic

PUBLISHED April 17, 2015

The 53-square-foot rectangle of linen known as the Shroud of Turin is one of the most sacred religious icons on Earth, venerated by millions of Christians as the actual burial garment of Jesus Christ.

It is also among the most fiercely debated subjects in contemporary science, an extraordinary mystery that has defied every effort at solution.

Over the 117 years since a photographic negative of the linen unexpectedly revealed the image of a tortured body, ranks of physicists and chemists have weighed in on the fabric’s age and the image’s composition. Forensic pathologists, microbiologists, and botanists have analyzed its bloodstains, along with specks of dirt and pollen on its surface. Statisticians have combed through mountains of data.

The sum result is a standoff, with researchers unable to dismiss the shroud entirely as a forgery, or prove that it is authentic. “It is unlikely science will provide a full solution to the many riddles posed by the shroud,” Italian physicist Paolo Di Lazzaro, a leading expert on the phenomenon, told National Geographic. “A leap of faith over questions without clear answers is necessary—either the ‘faith’ of skeptics, or the faith of believers.”

...the establishment of the U.S.-led Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP), which was granted an unprecedented five days of continuous access to the shroud itself in 1978.

The project’s 33 members ran the gamut of scientific disciplines, and their credentials included high-level posts at 20 major research institutions. They arrived in Turin with seven tons of equipment and worked in shifts 24 hours a day. An associate team of European scientists acted as expert observers.

Their analyses found no sign of artificial pigments. “The Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist,” the project’s 1981 report declared. “The blood stains are composed of hemoglobin and also give a positive test for serum albumin.” But the report also conceded that no combination of “physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances” could adequately account for the image.

 

[zyzygy]

https://phys.org/news/2005-06-turin-shroud-fake.html

As concerns the so-called blood purportedly on the shroud, CSICOP says:

BLOOD. The Associated Press reported claims that the shroud bears type AB blood stains. Perhaps this erroneous information has its origin in other fake shrouds of Jesus, since the Shroud of Turin's stains are not only suspiciously red (unlike genuine blood that blackens with age) but they failed batteries of tests by internationally known forensic experts. The "blood" has been definitively proved to be composed of red ocher and vermilion tempera paint."
http://www.truthbeknown.com/shroud.htm

 

[RAMOSS]

https://phys.org/news/2005-06-turin-shroud-fake.html

As concerns the so-called blood purportedly on the shroud, CSICOP says:

BLOOD. The Associated Press reported claims that the shroud bears type AB blood stains. Perhaps this erroneous information has its origin in other fake shrouds of Jesus, since the Shroud of Turin's stains are not only suspiciously red (unlike genuine blood that blackens with age) but they failed batteries of tests by internationally known forensic experts. The "blood" has been definitively proved to be composed of red ocher and vermilion tempera paint."
http://www.truthbeknown.com/shroud.htm

Well.. there are better sources for that information. Truthbeknown. the web site of the late Acharya S, aka D.M. Murdock, is not very reliable. However, a much better site
is https://mcri.org/v/64/the-shroud-of-turin. This was the company of Walter McCRone, who was the forensic scientist who was hired by STRUP to examine the shroud. Since they didn't like his conclusions, they spent the next 25 years trying to discredit him. However, that was his field of study. One of his specialities was discovering art fakes, and he also taught forensic investigation to the FBI.

https://mcri.org/v/64/the-shroud-of-turin

And while the link to his article on his site is broken, here is a link to the article about blood vs artists pigment that 'truthbeknown' referenced

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ar00171a004?journalCode=achre4

 

[zyzygy]

It's either a fake or magic. I know which is more likely.

 

[Somerville]

The martyrdom of James was part of the purge of Christians. Apparently you can't see the forest for the trees.

"may be" a Christian interpolation?

"I know of no scholar who has successfully disputed this passage." Edwin Yamauchi, Ph.D.

So you're quibbling about the date and not the murder of James? That's like quibbling about how many angels were at the tomb of Jesus the morning of his resurrection, while missing the resurrection itself.

When the words fail to agree with your beliefs you apparently find yourself unable to comprehend the obvious. Once again into the breech --

Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, (XX:9) may be a Christian interpolation, at least in part.

But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa], desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrin without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.

The phrase in RED letters is seen by some as the interpolation. The primary reason being the final phrase about Jesus, son of Damneus, being made high priest following the death of James.

Then there is comment about those Jews who were the "most equitable of the citizens" were the ones who protested the stoning of James. This does not fit with your claim about James execution being "part of the purge of Christians"

 

[Logicman]

When the words fail to agree with your beliefs you apparently find yourself unable to comprehend the obvious. Once again into the breech --

Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, (XX:9) may be a Christian interpolation, at least in part.

LOL. That's about as good as your arguments get. "may be"

So dream on...

 

[zyzygy]

LOL. That's about as good as your arguments get. "may be"

So dream on...

The historical Jesus may have existed is as good as your argument gets.

 

[Somerville]

LOL. That's about as good as your arguments get. "may be"

So dream on...

Poor poor (non)Logicman :naughty naughty. First, YOU made the claim that the death of James was due to the persecution of the early Christians in Jerusalem and now you provide - not an answer - but instead, a kindergarten-level rejoinder that amounts to little more than "nuh-uh, I'm right and you're wrong, just because . . ." Couldn't possibly be owing to the ever so small fact that the passage from Josephus fails to support your claim - now could it?

Then you provide a quote from Edwin Yamauchi, Ph.D (Prof. Emeritus, Miami University), a well-educated scholar with strong evangelical beliefs, beliefs so strong he evidently refuses to read the papers put out by scholars who disagree with him. Of course, No.1 among those scholars, there is Richard Carrier, Ph.D, but there are also Robert M. Price, Ph.D, Bart Ehrman Ph.D, Thomas L Thompson Ph.D and others.