The Manafort Indictment: Not Much There, and a Boon for Trump

[eohrnberger]

oooo eohrn, you should have kept pretending to have me on ignore. Uranium One has mines all over the world. Maybe Donna was referring to other mines because the uranium refined in Canada comes back to America.

Already cited that US uranium has been shipped out of country, and likely offshore. But, sure, invent facts to support whatever argument you think you are making.

Or it was sent to other enrichment plants for processing. We don't produce enough for our uses so we have to import it. we import 92% of what we use

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=2150

Given that, how is it in the US' best interests to allow Russian to gain control of some 20% of the US uranium? Would seem to be an even worse deal to approve and implement.

Doing so would seem to be as exactly counter to US' best interests, as well as a possible national security issue.

So please explain to me how letting Russia, the international challenger and opponent of the US, control some 20% of the us uranium is a good idea. (Except maybe for the Clintons and their foundation).

But eorhn, lets pretend Donna is right and or she's saying American uranium has ended up in Japan and Western Europe. You said "designations unknown". that's just false.

Once shipped out of the country, how exactly are US restrictions enforced on transshipments? On foreign soil? So, yes, destinations unknown (as in uncontrolled destinations) I think is fair.

And don't forget, I called you out for your false narratives concerning the Steel Dossier. Oh fyi, even your conservative masters at Fox say unmasking is legal

What is 'unmasking?' Susan Rice allegedly sought names of Trump associates under surveillance | Fox News

Not my masters. But far be it for you restraint and not inject your invective in every one of your posts.

 

[polgara]

It's never too late for GOP hacks to draw conclusions about ... But Hillary !!!

Greetings, NIMBY. :2wave:

Long time no hear from you! Is that good English? :mrgreen: I have no doubt that Hillary and others will have their turn to speak, which should prove just as interesting as what we're currently hearing - which has become kinda normal for DC, IMO, - but it does prove to me that Diogenes was wise to give up his search for an honest politician many thousands of years ago! :roll: *Just thinking out loud*

 

[Linc]

Greetings, NIMBY. :2wave:

Long time no hear from you! Is that good English? :mrgreen: I have no doubt that Hillary and others will have their turn to speak, which should prove just as interesting as what we're currently hearing - which has become kinda normal for DC, IMO, - but it does prove to me that Diogenes was wise to give up his search for an honest politician many thousands of years ago! :roll: *Just thinking out loud*

How many more times should Hillary speak before the billion dollar kangaroo courts of the GOP, while they turn a blind eye on trump and sabotage every committee right now?

No matter who's guilty, I want them prosecuted, but I won't participate in the GOPutin 'whataboutism'.

Hey, Lady P, this is just an extension of a Nation that tore completely apart, mentally this time, during and after Watergate up to today.

If I were a GOP, I'd be very concerned with the Nazis Bannon and Miller controlling trump with Bannon destroying your party in the primaries.

Instead, I have the regressive progressive Bernie Bros trying to fabricate a DEM divide because they keep losing primaries at all levels of politics ...

 

[Fearandloathing]

Clinton has her own problems to deal with, and it appears they are growing rather than shrinking.

“It is very queer that the unhappiness of the world is so often brought on by small men.” (and women)
― Erich Maria Remarque, All Quiet on the Western Front

I haven't seen where any indictment has been handed down in relation to Secretary Clinton. She is not mentioned in the OP nor anywhere in connection with the indictments so your raising of it is pure deflection.

Now, based on how many times Secretary Clinton has been investigated on a ratio of how many times anything has been found it is also clear you are desperate and afraid. You should be, as I recall the Goofy Obstruction Party has been shouting "Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi" for going on a decade and haven't so much as been able to find a missing paper clip. That's an embarrassment in itself and should be the subject of a misuse of office investigation considering how many costly hours of congressional staff and time have been wasted for purely political reasons.

Now, for the kill...even IF you can prove anything against Secretary Clinton, all it would prove is she is as bad as Trump...who I might remind you ran on a pledge of having "the greatest people"....

Yeah look how that turned out. Not even a year into office and has more **** on his hands than Nixon had after six.

Loser!

 

[Fearandloathing]

"long discredited" ? Oh I don't think so.

"Why didn't they investigate?" No idea. I've not heard anything that puts any of these issues to any sort of conclusion.

Oh sure, many here on the left side of the political spectrum wave their hands and dismiss them, but that's not a real conclusion or a real refutation of any substance. That's all still a bunch of hand waving.

Oh my, the professional apologists have been awakened.

Long discredited would be a perfect description of Trump. But what I want to know is what about Trump and his grandiose promise he had "the greatest people" every time he was stuck for an answer.

Looks like "great" has a different meaning for you guys....we used to use the phrase Obamabot. Just sayin

 

[nota bene]

You have consistently tried to divert attention from crooked nuclear trump ...

You see what you want to see.

 

[roughdraft274]

If Manafort was smart he’d tell Mueller to write up what he wants him to say and he’ll sign it and refuse to read it. In exchange for dropping the charges. How could Mueller say no?

Unless Mueller is an ethical investigator and just wants the truth. Along with the fact that that's a dumb idea.

 

[humbolt]

I haven't seen where any indictment has been handed down in relation to Secretary Clinton. She is not mentioned in the OP nor anywhere in connection with the indictments so your raising of it is pure deflection.

Now, based on how many times Secretary Clinton has been investigated on a ratio of how many times anything has been found it is also clear you are desperate and afraid. You should be, as I recall the Goofy Obstruction Party has been shouting "Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi" for going on a decade and haven't so much as been able to find a missing paper clip. That's an embarrassment in itself and should be the subject of a misuse of office investigation considering how many costly hours of congressional staff and time have been wasted for purely political reasons.

Now, for the kill...even IF you can prove anything against Secretary Clinton, all it would prove is she is as bad as Trump...who I might remind you ran on a pledge of having "the greatest people"....

Yeah look how that turned out. Not even a year into office and has more **** on his hands than Nixon had after six.

Loser!

I'm not desperate, F&L. At the end of it all with these scandals, I don't care about the players all that much as long as the nation's business gets done. I'm only concerned when the rumor of scandals and the scandals themselves become the nation's business, as they appear to be now. While I approach things from my conservative viewpoint, I'd much prefer that if we're gong to clean house in DC, we be certain to hit all the rooms in the house, and not just the one's on one side or the other. So if we're going to investigate Trump and all of those surrounding him, and we are and we should, we should also investigate all of those clear shenanigans on the other side of the aisle as well. So I don't view it as desperation and deflection. I view it as an effort directed at getting the scumbags out of our government regardless of their affiliation.

 

[polgara]

How many more times should Hillary speak before the billion dollar kangaroo courts of the GOP, while they turn a blind eye on trump and sabotage every committee right now?

No matter who's guilty, I want them prosecuted, but I won't participate in the GOPutin 'whataboutism'.

Hey, Lady P, this is just an extension of a Nation that tore completely apart, mentally this time, during and after Watergate up to today.

If I were a GOP, I'd be very concerned with the Nazis Bannon and Miller controlling trump with Bannon destroying your party in the primaries.

Instead, I have the regressive progressive Bernie Bros trying to fabricate a DEM divide because they keep losing primaries at all levels of politics ...

:agree: :thumbs: It's all about who "controls" everything these days, I guess, and that just means that the wealthy elite on this planet are fighting each other in a battle for supremacy, and dragging the rest of us into their quagmire, using propaganda, constant riots, and anything else that furthers their agenda.

I once read that there have been seven great civilizations that ruled the known world in the past, and all failed, mainly caused by greed by the elite, causing increasingly worsening governance as their civilizations aged. I hope we're not next, NIMBY!

 

[poweRob]

Papadopoulos is the connection that ties the Russians to Manafort and Trump, and he's already taken a plea arrangement.

Spend some time thinking about that.

And he was arrested all the way back in July. Then released back out into the norm... probably with a wire.

 

[poweRob]

McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor, explains why the charges against Manafort will be difficult to prove, and are entirely irrelevant as regards any Trump-Russian "collusion."

Mueller's gone on a fishing expedition, and caught himself an undersized bass.

You should stick with these analogies because you can't seem to handle the facts.

 

[Floridafan]

Already cited that US uranium has been shipped out of country, and likely offshore. But, sure, invent facts to support whatever argument you think you are making.



Given that, how is it in the US' best interests to allow Russian to gain control of some 20% of the US uranium? Would seem to be an even worse deal to approve and implement.

Doing so would seem to be as exactly counter to US' best interests, as well as a possible national security issue.

So please explain to me how letting Russia, the international challenger and opponent of the US, control some 20% of the us uranium is a good idea. (Except maybe for the Clintons and their foundation).



Once shipped out of the country, how exactly are US restrictions enforced on transshipments? On foreign soil? So, yes, destinations unknown (as in uncontrolled destinations) I think is fair.



Not my masters. But far be it for you restraint and not inject your invective in every one of your posts.

Has the uranium been shipped out of the country?

 

[Floridafan]

McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor, explains why the charges against Manafort will be difficult to prove, and are entirely irrelevant as regards any Trump-Russian "collusion."

Mueller's gone on a fishing expedition, and caught himself an undersized bass.

How about the charges against George P?
How about the charges still to come?

 

[chuckiechan]

Unless Mueller is an ethical investigator and just wants the truth. Along with the fact that that's a dumb idea.

One man's idea is another man's metaphor.

The old FBI saw "search for truth" is a ship that has long since sunk. They are a rogue agency. One more US institution sunk by the USS Obama.

That's what Mueller wants if he could get away with it. I only hope when the Russian Uranium probe gets moving, he explain why he gave the Clinton Foundation a pass of influence peddling. What did he have to gain in not investigating the matter? A promise at being a Special Investigator some day?

One can only wonder.

 

[beefheart]

One man's idea is another man's metaphor.

The old FBI saw "search for truth" is a ship that has long since sunk. They are a rogue agency. One more US institution sunk by the USS Obama.

That's what Mueller wants if he could get away with it. I only hope when the Russian Uranium probe gets moving, he explain why he gave the Clinton Foundation a pass of influence peddling. What did he have to gain in not investigating the matter? A promise at being a Special Investigator some day?

One can only wonder.

 

[PLizzy]

One man's idea is another man's metaphor.

The old FBI saw "search for truth" is a ship that has long since sunk. They are a rogue agency. One more US institution sunk by the USS Obama.

That's what Mueller wants if he could get away with it. I only hope when the Russian Uranium probe gets moving, he explain why he gave the Clinton Foundation a pass of influence peddling. What did he have to gain in not investigating the matter? A promise at being a Special Investigator some day?

One can only wonder.

The FBI is far from a pure agency, but don't blame it for Trump being a treasonous buffoon that abetted foreign adversaries to corrupt the election.

 

[roughdraft274]

One man's idea is another man's metaphor.

The old FBI saw "search for truth" is a ship that has long since sunk. They are a rogue agency. One more US institution sunk by the USS Obama.

That's what Mueller wants if he could get away with it. I only hope when the Russian Uranium probe gets moving, he explain why he gave the Clinton Foundation a pass of influence peddling. What did he have to gain in not investigating the matter? A promise at being a Special Investigator some day?

One can only wonder.

How do you know that's what Mueller wants? How are you so sure that you know exactly what his personal thoughts are?


The Russian Uranium probe? What does that have to do with anything? Can you explain it to me? Who supposedly paid off the Clintons? When and how did Hillary somehow push this approval through?

 

[beefheart]

One man's idea is another man's metaphor.

The old FBI saw "search for truth" is a ship that has long since sunk. They are a rogue agency. One more US institution sunk by the USS Obama.

That's what Mueller wants if he could get away with it. I only hope when the Russian Uranium probe gets moving, he explain why he gave the Clinton Foundation a pass of influence peddling. What did he have to gain in not investigating the matter? A promise at being a Special Investigator some day?

One can only wonder.

Watch the uranium deal argument get destroyed:

 

[Absentglare]

1.) True, there's no legal burden of proof, but there is an in practice burden of proof. The president needs to have been proven to do something illegal, and that's basically the minimal criterion. Bill Clinton lied under oath, but it was about something irrelevant so Democrats turned their heads the other way. I think for a realistic scenario of an impeachment, you need to have done something illegal and something that matters to the public.

2.) Republicans are partisan, but they just got their tax "reform" (free hand out to the 1%) through, so Trump has just served his purpose. It's not guaranteed, but I think Republicans can live (at least in terms of following their donors) with impeaching Trump now. It doesn't mean they will, but they can proceed now without their donors being angry at them. Republicans hate Trump. They're just looking for a reason to break rank with Trump and politically impale him. If becomes clear that they cannot further serve their donors because of Trump's shenanigans, Trump will be gone.

1) I think you're right as far as how to proceed with impeachment with public support. We need some firm evidence of wrongdoing, in general.

But the original meaning of, "high crimes and misdemeanors," includes all kinds of non-criminal acts; abuse of authority, intimidation, unbecoming conduct, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty. President Trump's failure to enforce the new Russian sanctions, for example, could qualify. So could his failure to supervise Puerto Rico. Hell, his twitter account checks three of those boxes.

2) I think they still need more time on tax reform. I don't know why they can't just impeach President Trump and then pass their agenda. So we'd have a President Pence, or a President Ryan, wouldn't that make it even easier to pass tax reform? Maybe they want the spectacle of the dumpster fire to mask their sins.

 

[FieldTheorist]

1) I think you're right as far as how to proceed with impeachment with public support. We need some firm evidence of wrongdoing, in general.

But the original meaning of, "high crimes and misdemeanors," includes all kinds of non-criminal acts; abuse of authority, intimidation, unbecoming conduct, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty. President Trump's failure to enforce the new Russian sanctions, for example, could qualify. So could his failure to supervise Puerto Rico. Hell, his twitter account checks three of those boxes.

Agreed, but with the modern sentiments being what it is among Republican politicians, the party apparatus, the donors, and the voters --it needs to be completely unambiguous.

2) I think they still need more time on tax reform. I don't know why they can't just impeach President Trump and then pass their agenda. So we'd have a President Pence, or a President Ryan, wouldn't that make it even easier to pass tax reform? Maybe they want the spectacle of the dumpster fire to mask their sins.

Because whatever new scrutiny they are facing due to Trump's election (which has had a measurable impact on Republican and Democratic politicians), they will face 10 times that if a Republican president is impeached. The Republican party's adherence to economic neoliberalism has always been possible only because the public at large isn't paying attention to what they're actually enacting. For instance, Republicans didn't used to need to lie so often publicly about what their medical coverage bills and tax "reforms" actually entailed; in some sense, it's pretty new for Republicans like Ted Cruz and so forth to feel the need to debate people like Bernie Sanders in order to try to alleviate the mounting public outcry against their policies. And it's an encouraging sign.

But if Trump were impeached? That would be the end of the Republican legislative agenda, they would be spending 100% of their time scurrying to appease their districts/states to prevent getting voted out of office in 2018 and beyond which would be chaotic, disorganized, and more likely to have even less unity.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I'm not desperate, F&L. At the end of it all with these scandals, I don't care about the players all that much as long as the nation's business gets done. I'm only concerned when the rumor of scandals and the scandals themselves become the nation's business, as they appear to be now. While I approach things from my conservative viewpoint, I'd much prefer that if we're gong to clean house in DC, we be certain to hit all the rooms in the house, and not just the one's on one side or the other. So if we're going to investigate Trump and all of those surrounding him, and we are and we should, we should also investigate all of those clear shenanigans on the other side of the aisle as well. So I don't view it as desperation and deflection. I view it as an effort directed at getting the scumbags out of our government regardless of their affiliation.

.


Show me where the "nation's business is being done. What I see is Trump and his associates business being done with an on-going dis-information campaign and cover up, not just at this investigation but at every avenue of business.

He has outright lied about trade talks, abandoned long standing partnership and endangered the nation shady dealings with Russia wile trying to start a nuke war in Korea. Meanwhile with no alternative plan whatsoever he is screwing your long standing trade and policy partners.

IF you really want you say you do, put him on a ****ing leash now if for no other reason that the man is clinically insane

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

One man's idea is another man's metaphor.

The old FBI saw "search for truth" is a ship that has long since sunk. They are a rogue agency. One more US institution sunk by the USS Obama.

That's what Mueller wants if he could get away with it. I only hope when the Russian Uranium probe gets moving, he explain why he gave the Clinton Foundation a pass of influence peddling. What did he have to gain in not investigating the matter? A promise at being a Special Investigator some day?

One can only wonder.

Long before Obama, the FBI was wiretapping Martin Luther King Jr. during their crusade against leftist communists. The FBI has leaned to the right for decades. It's the FBI that did the most damage to Hillary Clinton.

But as soon as the FBI does their job and investigates Russian interference and Trump you insist they are rogue and leftist.

Is anything I said false?

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

The dishonesty of conservatives and FOX News is staggering. We're talking about basic FACTS that can easily be verified.

It used to be that we argued about ideologies and theories. Now we have a part of the electorate that absolutely refuse to admit basic facts. That's where we are.

 

[nota bene]

I'm not desperate, F&L. At the end of it all with these scandals, I don't care about the players all that much as long as the nation's business gets done. I'm only concerned when the rumor of scandals and the scandals themselves become the nation's business, as they appear to be now. While I approach things from my conservative viewpoint, I'd much prefer that if we're gong to clean house in DC, we be certain to hit all the rooms in the house, and not just the one's on one side or the other. So if we're going to investigate Trump and all of those surrounding him, and we are and we should, we should also investigate all of those clear shenanigans on the other side of the aisle as well. So I don't view it as desperation and deflection. I view it as an effort directed at getting the scumbags out of our government regardless of their affiliation.

And that's just it--the nation has other business with which to attend. I've been accused of "deflecting" for simply acknowledging that there are problems all around and citing Lois Lerner and Hillary Clinton. Yes, I am very concerned that Lerner hasn't been held accountable for her part in politicizing the IRS. This doesn't mean that I'm not concerned about the Manafort indictment too; I'm concerned about it all.

 

[beefheart]

The dishonesty of conservatives and FOX News is staggering. We're talking about basic FACTS that can easily be verified.

It used to be that we argued about ideologies and theories. Now we have a part of the electorate that absolutely refuse to admit basic facts. That's where we are.

Very simple facts that have been explained, over and over and over.

They are desparately throwing chaff.