The kids are taking a stand!

[PleasantValley]

How are our children currently protected at recess?
How are our students currently protected when they leave school at the end of the day, en masse?
How is anyone protected at a sporting event that does not have metal detectors?

These students, who I have taught for 42 years, have nothing left to lose but their lives.
This generation of students will do something the last generation of young did not do, vote.

This generation of students will take over when all of the gun addicts are dead ...

I see you are asking me how these children are protected because those GUN FREE ZONES do not work and you are seeking an answer.
If they worked, you would be happy and have your answer.

So then, we are in agreement. I am glad you can see this.
Those GUN FREE ZONES do nothing to physically protect children.
Because you have to ask, those GUN FREE ZONES must not be doing their job.

PS...gun "addicts" never die,...they just get RELOADED.
I begat two myself.
My son is an avid hunter and recreational shooter.
My gay daughter is almost paramilitary in her love of shooting.

 

[zsu2357]

I saw and heard one of those kids say ALL NRA members have blood on their hands.
I quit listening to anything that was said after that.
That alone tells me their "movement" will go nowhere and is just repeating the anti-gun hyperbole and hysteria of the radical left.

Yeah they hear that crap at home from friends from teachers. It's know wonder.

 

[TurtleDude]

Yeah they hear that crap at home from friends from teachers. It's know wonder.

I have never seen a better illustration of Lenin's phrase of "Useful idiots" or "Useful fools" then those NRA bashing hysterical students.

 

[zsu2357]

Anti-gun is not radical left.

Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan were staunch supporters of gun control.

I myself am conservative. I support judges that are originalists. I support capitalism.

However, guns create a threat to the society the same way heroin or any addictive drug does. After shooting a gun, it releases dopamine and endorphins that can be addictive to the person holding the gun.

So know us gun owners are drug addicts?

 

[zsu2357]

"Obvious" it is not. Offer us some evidence that these children were "coached" into saying what they have been saying. If you have none, then your motivation is more depressing than it is transparent.

OK prove it they weren't.All these kids with the fluff in their heads all the sudden becoming almost gun control experts. Most would be weak kneed(understandably) but these guys they 'found' were good to go.

 

[zsu2357]

I get that you're making up this claim out of thin air and am dismissing it because your lack of evidence tells me all I need to know about your opinion.

What a coincidence I think the same about you.

 

[Linc]

gun addicts (whatever they are) are not the problem/ Its sick sociopaths who want to KILL who are the problem. and they will ALWAYS have arms or bombs or poison or fire to kill. SO how do we deal with that? disarm victims? everything we cherish we protect with guns. Fort knox has men with machine guns protecting it. banks have armed guards or alarms to quickly summon armed men for protection. Amazon's big computer hub near Dublin Ohio has armed guards on its perimeters. The president and other "VIPs" have armed guards. The DOJ offices I worked in had armed guards as well as armed agents and some armed Prosecutors in them. So why don't we protect our children with armed men and women?

I can't believe I just lost another long post, this time to you.
You would have liked it. I'll try to rewrite it as time goes by.

Please know that I appreciate the tone of your post to me.
This is how we are going to solve this problem that must be solved.

And as I said in what's lost in cyber-space, I'm glad you're my friend.
It's only natural that friends will disagree.

It's been very emotional for all of us since Valentine's Day, also Ash Wednesday.
The emotional part of me would say 'hearts to ashes'.

It's been a long day for all of us, and I need to check myself going forth.
School will be very emotional and surreal tomorrow when I guest teach AP Chem.
This group is truly special, with SATs of 1400. You know what that means.

Then, I will travel to the suburbs for dual sectionals, with a number of nationally-ranked teams.
This is a time where we coaches renew old acquaintances.
You also do great work for our students in real life ...

 

[zsu2357]

Nope; assault weapons are going away.

How about that much vaunted M1 carbine of yours?

 

[zsu2357]

I have never know an inanimate object such as a gun to pick itself up, point itself and shoot anyone. The gun is not the issue. The mentally ill people that get their hands on them are the issue.

Well Bucky did you read that? Step away from the firearm. You'll shoot your eye out.

 

[zsu2357]

You're being obtuse again.

So if your marching kids say jet hand in your M1 carbine ,are you?

 

[Oreo]

Survivors Of The Florida School Shooting Organize D.C. March



These high school kids understand more about gun violence and the dangerous element within the NRA than the Harvard-educated gun supporters.

Those like Ted Cruz and Rick Scott are on the losing side of this issue. At this point, they are too scared to even discuss the subject.

IMO cowardly. When communities are being killed and shot up, they won't tolerate the NRA bs anymore.

Republicans have owned congress since 2010. For the last 8 years they have done NOTHING except fight any new gun control measures.

Trump and Republicans even repealed Obama's required mental health background checks. And when Obama asked them to put people who are on no fly lists, and FBI terrorist watch lists--Republicans in the House and Senate said NO.
Trump Overturns a Mental Health Regulation on Gun Purchases
https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/05/politics/barack-obama-guns-congress/index.html

The NRA are Republicans campaign cash cow. The kids that are protesting are a little confused on this, because the NRA does NOT contribute to individual campaigns--it is distributed in this manner. It goes into Republican super pac funds to promote Republicans and attack Democrat candidates.

The gun rights organization spent a stupendous $54.4 million in the 2016 election cycle, almost all of it in "independent expenditures," meaning spending for or against a candidate but not a direct contribution to a campaign. The money went almost entirely to Republicans to a degree that almost looks like a misprint (but isn't): Of independent expenditures totaling $52.6 million, Democrats received $265. Yes, that's 265 dollars.

'Thoughts and prayers' ? and fistfuls of NRA money: Why America can't control guns

So let's count the mass shootings we've had since 2010--or when Republicans took over the House.

1. Repubicans did NOTHING over the Aurora theatre mass shooting. 2. Republicans did NOTHING over Virginia Tech. 3. Republicans did NOTHING over Sandy Hook. 4. Republicans did NOTHING over San Bernadino, California. 5. Republicans did NOTHING over Orlando, Florida. 6. Republicans did NOTHING over Las Vegas, Nevada, and 7. Republicans are doing NOTHING over Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. And they will do NOTHING, except to offer their sympathies, outrageous excuses for the shooters, and hold prayer vigils.

Common sense gun control would have stopped it all.
1. Ban semi-automatic guns and 30 round gun clips.
2. Those that currently own semi-automatics be required to keep them in locked gun safes, and maintain a liability insurance policy on these weapons to keep them.
3. Background checks including extended mental health on all gun purchases.
4. Parents with kids or teenagers at home required to keep all guns and ammo locked up in gun safes, inaccessible to their kids at all times.
5. People who report others who are making threats, via social media outlets, or verbally to family, friends or others that are reporting them. An investigation is done, by local law enforcement, and if reasonable cause, law enforcement can legally cease all guns and ammo, and the threatening person is put on a no gun list.
6. People who are on a no fly list, or terrorist watch list are also on a no gun list.
7. All gun shows are required to do background and extended mental health check before any purchase.
8. No more private gun sales. If someone wants to sell a gun they have to take it to a licensed gun dealer on consignment for background check.
9. Straw buyers of guns, people who buy guns for others will be under the same prosecutal standards as the one who pulls the trigger.

These common sense gun control regulations would have stopped all of the above massacres.

You won't get it from Republicans. So you'll have to vote for DEMOCRATS this coming November, 2018. If you don't vote expect more of the same.

 

[zsu2357]

Allot of the weapons listed are already banned. Why the duplication?

I fail to see the importance of a folding or telescoping stock.

I fail to see the importance of 2 handles.

The impression I'm left with is that someone who didn't know, didn't understand, or didn't want to understand, and was predisposed to a complete firearm ban wrote this.

I'm sure that you are an ardent supporter.

I had to laugh. Did you see the HI-POINT carbine listed? Right up with
HCR AK-47*

Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine*

Hi-Point Carbine Rifles*


WUM*

HK USC*


Yugo Krebs Krink*

HK-PSG-1*
And a few others.

 

[zsu2357]

=jet57;1068196476]Folding stocks make the weapon concealable. Telescoping stocks make the weapon concealable.

Yep put them puppies in your back pockets of your jeans.

Two handles make the weapon more stable for lower shoulder firing to avoid recoil.

What ever you say. But really though it gives it twice the CRF.
These are heavy combat weapons and have no business on the public market.[/QUOTE]

 

[zsu2357]

I've come to learn that more than half of the people in this country don't care about gun violence until a gun is held to their head or someone they love is killed by one of them.

So if a gun was held to your head whereas if you had been armed it may not have happened(see Luby's, Killeen, Texas for example)would you change your mind and carry?

 

[PleasantValley]

I had to laugh. Did you see the HI-POINT carbine listed? Right up with
HCR AK-47*

Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine*

Hi-Point Carbine Rifles*


WUM*

HK USC*


Yugo Krebs Krink*

HK-PSG-1*
And a few others.

Don't make me loose my dinner, there, zsu2357.
I thought that list included actual guns.
I don't know what you would call those things.
(giving my FAL carbine an extra warm hug tonight)

 

[zsu2357]

Don't make me loose my dinner, there, zsu2357.
I thought that list included actual guns.
I don't know what you would call those things.
(giving my FAL carbine an extra warm hug tonight)

Didn't notice Super Soakers on that list.

 

[MateoMtnClimber]

So if a gun was held to your head whereas if you had been armed it may not have happened(see Luby's, Killeen, Texas for example)would you change your mind and carry?

A gun was held to my head. I still don't carry. You need to learn to respect the differences between people.

 

[Rucker61]

A gun was held to my head. I still don't carry. You need to learn to respect the differences between people.

Have there ever been circumstances where a civilian needed a gun to defend themselves? Should Amanda Collins and the woman killed after her attack just have "learned to respect the differences between people"?

 

[TurtleDude]

A gun was held to my head. I still don't carry. You need to learn to respect the differences between people.

I believe in free choice. I respect your decision and right not to carry as much as I respect the rights of other good people to pack wherever they go

 

[zsu2357]

A gun was held to my head. I still don't carry. You need to learn to respect the differences between people.

What I respect is the difference between life and death. If indeed you had a gun held to your head and are willing to respect death on your part,that's good with me. Personally I choose life.

 

[zsu2357]

???

are you using sarcasm, or are you serious?
Text only communication makes discerning the two difficult, so i will answer both.

If you are using sarcasm, then I LOL along with you.
If you are serious, (and forgive me if you were sarcastic) in what universe has a GUN FREE ZONE sign, or legislation, anywhere, at any point actually protected children....at recess or any time on school grounds?
legislation and signs do not protect anyone unless they have some kind of magical mystical powers blessed on them by a wizard.

As a test of this theory (I can't believe i am even saying this)...as a test of this theory, let's post 100 GUN FREE ZONE signs eight feet part in two rows of 50 each.
I take an AR-15 and walk between them the whole length of the GUN FREE ZONE corridor of signs.
$1,000 bet, I will still have the AR-15 in my hands as I walk past them.

SIMILAR EXAMPLE: In the city of Houston, an alarm company is prohibited to say "PROTECTED BY" in any of their signs or literature.
Why?
Because an alarm only WARNS YOU. They only give out a warning. They do not "PROTECT" you in any way.

PROTECTION is physical. It is a physical property of physically stopping an attack.
Ask the hundreds of women NOT SAVED from death by their "protection" orders.
You can not ask them because they are dead. They were not protected at all.
Protection is physical.
In a life threatening situation, you will not live long if you think otherwise.

Hell we have seen this but...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozJTenNzUKM It' magic.

 

[jaeger19]

They think the same thing about the opposite side. It's not a convincing argument.
.[/QUOTET

That's not true.

Except that guns play a role in mass violence exponentially more often than fertilizer, trucks, box cutters, and pressure cookers do.

No they don't.

but I am saying that if you're not willing to even discuss the role of guns in mass murders, then you're not willing to entertain a complete conversation.

I am discussing the role... they are a tool.... .no different than box cutters, a truck, or a knife, or a pressure cooker.

They are inanimate objects that do not create any more desire to kill, that are not dangerous without the use of the human hand directing them.

The anti gun crowd wants to imbue the firearm with mystical powers.... that the issue is the firearm.. and not the person using it. In fact you can see that in the way they describe it.

When a person kills another with a knife.... we don't have a national discussion about "knife violence".

Or when people drink alcohol and kill themselves or get into a car and kill another... we don't have a national discussion on " alcohol violence". (kind of ironic because alcohol actually affects brain functioning while a firearm does not).

But if a firearm is used in a crime.... its "gun violence".... as if THE GUN IS VIOLENT.

the gun is not violent. But the anti gun people treat the firearm as different from any other entity used to kill people.

Why? There is no logical reason for this.

Now.. you explain to me... why its necessary for me.. to treat a firearm as somehow different from a box cutter. Please explain why according to you ... I should recognize that if my son is killed by a madman with a knife... I should be relieved that he was not killed with a firearm.

Go ahead and explain to me the difference.

That's exactly what I want to do. I haven't blamed a gun on anything. Ever

No offense... but that's not quite true. You have already been influenced by the propaganda of the anti gun crowd. I have had to explain the "gun violence"... issue. And you want to discuss... the "role of guns" but not the "role of box cutters"... or "role of trucks".

Which indicates that at some level.....you have bought into the idea of the gun being to blame. I am not attacking you..... I am simply pointed out that you have already been biased.

Here is another example:

They're both equally responsible for our collective inability to deal with a barbaric problem that doesn't belong in an advanced and developed country.

Okay.... so here is proof of your bias. IF what you said is true... that you don't blame the gun. Which is by the way.. what the pro gun side states... that its other things like culture, mental health, etc....

THEN WHY WOULD BOTH SIDES BE "EQUALLY TO BLAME".?

Think about that. IF the issue isn't the gun... and blaming the gun... then why would the side that says... "its not about the gun".... be "EQUALLY AT FAULT?".

If anything... they would be trying to push the conversation to things that DO matter.. like access to mental health.

 

[lefty louie]

Survivors Of The Florida School Shooting Organize D.C. March



These high school kids understand more about gun violence and the dangerous element within the NRA than the Harvard-educated gun supporters.

Those like Ted Cruz and Rick Scott are on the losing side of this issue. At this point, they are too scared to even discuss the subject.

IMO cowardly. When communities are being killed and shot up, they won't tolerate the NRA bs anymore.

It's also the reason kids don't get to vote.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Agreed.

Going after the tool isn't going to make a difference. Humans are adaptable, and will choose another tool.
We we stem from, after all, Homo habilis (the tool maker).

Yep. Another Assault style weapons ban would end up totally meaningless. Gun makers would simply remove the cosmetic features that make an AR 15 look mean, like they did when the Brady Bill passed in the 1990s and sell what is still a legal semi-auto rifle that looks less like an M-16.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Those are all good points. Allow me to take a step backward and make a point that I have made many times in this forum. Mass violence is a horrific problem that disproportionately affects American life. Guns often have a role in incidents of mass violence. So when something happens like happened in Parkland last week, we think about having a conversation that we have desperately needed to have for years. The gun thing naturally comes up, but the two extremes of that narrow aspect of the larger subject of mass violence hijack the entire conversation and prevent it from ever happening. The extremist gun banners and the NRA and everyone who overly identifies with either of them need to shut the **** up so that the rest of the adults can talk about the social, cultural, and functional factors related to mass violence.

Problem is that you are still falsely painting the NRA as an extremist organization. It's not. It is simply a group of about 6 millions members who support and desire to protect the 2nd amendment. And they very much belong in the conversation and do have solutions for anyone willing to listen to them, that include such things as enforcing existing laws, fixing the revolving door criminal justice system, firearms safety training etc. They are not the Darth Vader group that the left makes them out to be. The extremist are those idiots who want to ban firearms altogether.