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The Hill: Trump wants 'goddamned steam’ catapults on new aircraft carriers

MTAtech

MTAtech

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In case there was another example needed to show that Trump is an f'ing moron, read this:

Trump wants 'goddamned steam’ catapults on new aircraft carriers

President Trump said he has told the Navy to return to decades-old steam-powered catapult technology to launch aircraft from the new Gerald Ford-class aircraft carriers, rather than use a new digital launch system.
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Fortunately, the Navy will just ignore this guy, who will forget that he even said this by dinner time.
 
We talked at length about this when he said it back in May.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Moved to more appropriate location
 
ludin said:
You should have done more research in the matter. If you would have done more research in the matter you would have found that the navel testing group says the launchers aren't ready.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...-service-except-for-the-plane-launching-part/

They have major problems right now from repair to software.
So trump knew what he was talking about. You don't. Go figure.
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According to Acting Navy Secretary Sean Stackley, who told USNI News:
that he would not comment on the president’s remarks themselves, but he added, “we have not briefed the president on the Ford program. He did go down to Newport News and visited the ship, was onboard the ship. And so I wasn’t present for that visit, I don’t know what his source of information was.”
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I think you are crediting Trump with knowledge that he didn't have, according to the Navy.

In addition:
EMALS is already installed on Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78), and in 2015 the Navy began buying materials for EMALS on the follow-on John F. Kennedy (CVN-79). In January, the service awarded a $527 million contract to General Atomics for EMALS on the third Ford-class carrier, Enterprise (CVN-80).
...
The Mk 13 steam catapult used on Nimitz-class carriers is no longer in production, and if the service elected to return to steam launching it would likely have to design a new system, with the Navy incurring an unknown level of additional expense, USNI News understands.
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MTAtech said:
According to Acting Navy Secretary Sean Stackley, who told USNI News:


I think you are crediting Trump with knowledge that he didn't have, according to the Navy.

In addition:
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again research research research

Gerald R Ford: Ready or not? - Naval Technology

it was known back in june. all someone has to do is a 5 second google search.
how is it i can find this out and you can't?

again trump is right and you are not. it wasn't that hard to prove it either.

The navy is already incurring huge expenses and is once again over budget by billions of dollars.
for a non-working system in which repair times can take hours to fix.
 


Trump was elected only to disparage this great nation and everything it stands for.

donald-trump-tweets-2012-1478856552.jpg
 
ludin said:
again research research research

Gerald R Ford: Ready or not? - Naval Technology

it was known back in june. all someone has to do is a 5 second google search.
how is it i can find this out and you can't?

again trump is right and you are not. it wasn't that hard to prove it either.

The navy is already incurring huge expenses and is once again over budget by billions of dollars.
for a non-working system in which repair times can take hours to fix.
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So, you are saying that Trump had the knowledge that the EMALS system had growing pains and knew that the Navy already bought materials for those EMALS in a $527 million contract and;
also knew that the Mk 13 steam catapult used on Nimitz-class carriers is no longer in production;
and if the service elected to return to steam launching it would likely have to design a new system, with the Navy incurring a high expense;
and Trump carefully weighed all this out in his steel-trap brain and concluded that the old steam system, that wasn't in production any longer should be the system of choice.

Sure. If so, it would have been the first time Trump carefully weighed anything instead of making a snap, impulsive decision based upon not much real knowledge. Deciding on a jet launcher, like health care, is easy.
 
MTAtech said:
So, you are saying that Trump had the knowledge that the EMALS system had growing pains and knew that the Navy already bought materials for those EMALS in a $527 million contract and;
also knew that the Mk 13 steam catapult used on Nimitz-class carriers is no longer in production;
and if the service elected to return to steam launching it would likely have to design a new system, with the Navy incurring a high expense;
and Trump carefully weighed all this out in his steel-trap brain and concluded that the old steam system, that wasn't in production any longer should be the system of choice.

Sure. If so, it would have been the first time Trump carefully weighed anything instead of making a snap, impulsive decision based upon not much real knowledge. Deciding on a jet launcher, like health care, is easy.
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Trump is right........sorta

A commissioned warship that will not be battle ready until 2019.......maybe!

EMALS has not proven the ability to handle 270 launches in a 24 hour period, or the required ability to carry out 160 launches in a 12 hour period. This dog and pony show that the Ford has been going through for sea trials hasn't come close to meeting these standards. (see Nimitz)

A partially ready system should never have been placed on a supposedly combat ready ship.

Is EMALS the future for catapults.......hell yeah! But, it should have been tested and proven under hard core combat flight deck operational simulations "many many" times before it was tossed into the hull of a carrier, and it wasn't.

It just goes to show that there aren't any proteges of Hyman Rickover left in the military. We are left with cowardly ladder climbing "brass" who go along to get along. Rickover would have had the heads of the EMALS designers, engineers, and admirals on a ****ing hot plate.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Trump is right........sorta

A commissioned warship that will not be battle ready until 2019.......maybe!

EMALS has not proven the ability to handle 270 launches in a 24 hour period, or the required ability to carry out 160 launches in a 12 hour period. This dog and pony show that the Ford has been going through for sea trials hasn't come close to meeting these standards. (see Nimitz)

A partially ready system should never have been placed on a supposedly combat ready ship.

Is EMALS the future for catapults.......hell yeah! But, it should have been tested and proven under hard core combat flight deck operational simulations "many many" times before it was tossed into the hull of a carrier, and it wasn't.

It just goes to show that there aren't any proteges of Hyman Rickover left in the military. We are left with cowardly ladder climbing "brass" who go along to get along. Rickover would have had the heads of the EMALS designers, engineers, and admirals on a ****ing hot plate.
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That's painfully true. Those advocates of excellence have all passed away. Rickover was an SOB, but an SOB is necessary to assure that things actually work when we ask men to use them to defend the country. Trump is correct. Use the steam until the EMALS is glitch free and works as intended. Given the cost of the carrier, who's primary mission is to launch aircraft, it's reasonable to expect it to be able to do that.
 
MTAtech said:
So, you are saying that Trump had the knowledge that the EMALS system had growing pains and knew that the Navy already bought materials for those EMALS in a $527 million contract and;
also knew that the Mk 13 steam catapult used on Nimitz-class carriers is no longer in production;
and if the service elected to return to steam launching it would likely have to design a new system, with the Navy incurring a high expense;
and Trump carefully weighed all this out in his steel-trap brain and concluded that the old steam system, that wasn't in production any longer should be the system of choice.

Sure. If so, it would have been the first time Trump carefully weighed anything instead of making a snap, impulsive decision based upon not much real knowledge. Deciding on a jet launcher, like health care, is easy.
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Trump knew as soon as he saw the report and the report came out from the naval testing unit back in May or so.
They had the same concerns with the launchers.

1. They are putting more stress on the aircraft frame the tolerance allows.
2. If one breaks fixing the launcher is taking hours to repair. In a mission critical phase this could cost the lives of people and the mission itself.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/11/us_navy_emals_woes_uss_gerald_r_ford/

Even england scraped it due to cost and other technical difficulties.

again the president knew about it so he was more informed than you and still is.
again before reading the article headline you should probably do some research on it and
see if it is factual or not.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Trump is right........sorta

A commissioned warship that will not be battle ready until 2019.......maybe!

EMALS has not proven the ability to handle 270 launches in a 24 hour period, or the required ability to carry out 160 launches in a 12 hour period. This dog and pony show that the Ford has been going through for sea trials hasn't come close to meeting these standards. (see Nimitz)

A partially ready system should never have been placed on a supposedly combat ready ship.

Is EMALS the future for catapults.......hell yeah! But, it should have been tested and proven under hard core combat flight deck operational simulations "many many" times before it was tossed into the hull of a carrier, and it wasn't.

It just goes to show that there aren't any proteges of Hyman Rickover left in the military. We are left with cowardly ladder climbing "brass" who go along to get along. Rickover would have had the heads of the EMALS designers, engineers, and admirals on a ****ing hot plate.
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it is like the F-35 debacle all over again.
over cost doesn't work right difficult to maintain.

and the taxpayers get boned on these every time because all of these things are done the contractor all have cost plus contracts.
they run over on purpose. I am a project analyst and i tell you what our company runs within budget as much as possible.
any budget over runs are on us.
 
MTAtech said:
I think you are crediting Trump with knowledge that he didn't have, according to the Navy.

In addition:
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This has been discussed in the open media for years now. Look through the archive here, and you will find many of us (including myself) who had grave misgivings on the capability, performance, and reliability of the new launching system.

The bugs and issues with the system have been open source for years, and anybody who follows any kind of military equipment development would know all about it.

Sorry, but it sounds more like you do not know what you are talking about. How much do you know about the problems with the new electronic catapult system? Are you aware of it's MTBF? That these problems were enough to cause at least one other country to decide against catapult launch systems?

MTAtech said:
also knew that the Mk 13 steam catapult used on Nimitz-class carriers is no longer in production;
and if the service elected to return to steam launching it would likely have to design a new system, with the Navy incurring a high expense;
and Trump carefully weighed all this out in his steel-trap brain and concluded that the old steam system, that wasn't in production any longer should be the system of choice.
Click to expand...

Uhhh, they have never really been "in production". Each and every ship of that line was custom made, as were the majority of components. Do you really think they were being run off of an assembly line like Ford Model T's?

I think you really have no true understanding how military equipment is procured, and especially it's component parts.

And yes, I am one of those that for years has stated that keeping the Ford for a test bed for EMALS development is fine, but design a platform that would use steam when it is built, and then the ability to retrofit in an EMALS system once we finally get all the kinks worked out of it. Or go 50-50, and have half the launchers with steam, the other half with EMALS. But trusting everything in a completely new and untested system is stupidity at best, criminal negligence at worst.

But to be honest, your posts are so blatantly political that I am basically leaving you to your little Hate Trump fest. I have given you some actual information there, hopefully you will digest it and think about what I said. But of course I know you will not, such hated is to personal and ignores all common sense.
 
The complaints about EMALS and the new system aboard the Ford-class have been overblown.

The system has undergone repeated testing and most of the bugs and issues have already been worked out.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
The complaints about EMALS and the new system aboard the Ford-class have been overblown.

The system has undergone repeated testing and most of the bugs and issues have already been worked out.
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They have? Then please give us some references to make us all feel better.

Because everything I have been reading is saying very different. But please, what are your sources?
 
Jredbaron96 said:
The complaints about EMALS and the new system aboard the Ford-class have been overblown.

The system has undergone repeated testing and most of the bugs and issues have already been worked out.
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Wrong.

I talk with sailors every week off the Ford and almost every one of them just smirks and shrugs their shoulders. (muzzled) My son in law is a command Senior Chief of one of the air wings at Oceana and all he will tell me is ..........Pop's, it ain't good, and it's ain't gonna be good for some time.

There is already gossip going around town of a redesign of the arresting system and possibly the catapult system. The elevators are also malfunctioning due to the high power consumption of the EMALS.

2020 is the new window for combat availability.

At this point and time, there is only a 7% chance of the system sustaining a 4 day combat surge plan. The Nimitz has a 97% probability.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Trump is right........sorta

A commissioned warship that will not be battle ready until 2019.......maybe!

EMALS has not proven the ability to handle 270 launches in a 24 hour period, or the required ability to carry out 160 launches in a 12 hour period. This dog and pony show that the Ford has been going through for sea trials hasn't come close to meeting these standards. (see Nimitz)

A partially ready system should never have been placed on a supposedly combat ready ship.

Is EMALS the future for catapults.......hell yeah! But, it should have been tested and proven under hard core combat flight deck operational simulations "many many" times before it was tossed into the hull of a carrier, and it wasn't.

It just goes to show that there aren't any proteges of Hyman Rickover left in the military. We are left with cowardly ladder climbing "brass" who go along to get along. Rickover would have had the heads of the EMALS designers, engineers, and admirals on a ****ing hot plate.
Click to expand...

This all goes back to Rummy wanting to make tech leaps....this tech was not ready, may never be ready, but they decided to go with it. I am still not clear on what the advantage was supposed to be, this sure looks like another example of "We can so we should" ignoring that the tech was not ready as I already mentioned. The stupidity at the very top of the food chain has gotten scary bad and you're right, there is no one left who Rickover would have allowed on his team much less who can and will do what he did.


It is very likely that our military is about to get embarrassed at war just as Israel did in Lebanon, for the same reason...stupidity at the top, taking the eyes off the important things because the bosses are too stupid/corrupt to watch the important things.....for instance this God Damn Catapult.
 
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RetiredUSN said:
Wrong.

I talk with sailors every week off the Ford and almost every one of them just smirks and shrugs their shoulders. (muzzled) My son in law is a command Senior Chief of one of the air wings at Oceana and all he will tell me is ..........Pop's, it ain't good, and it's ain't gonna be good for some time.
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Sure you do.

There is already gossip going around town of a redesign of the arresting system and possibly the catapult system. The elevators are also malfunctioning due to the high power consumption of the EMALS.
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That's not going to happen. The Ford was designed with EMALS in mind exactly. There's no feasible way to remove the system and put in place a steam powered catapult system without destroying the ship and American naval power for the next few decades along with it.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The video shows a successful launch............nothing else.

There are arresting gear malfunctions, catapult malfunctions, power surges, and elevators that wont work while the EMALS recycles.
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And your evidence for this?
 
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