• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Electoral College: Purpose, Problems, Alternatives

Well son, did I ever tell you about the Electoral College?

So what did he tell him about the electoral college?

Did he tell him how this process has protected the country from good people and bad people that have passed through time by making it impossible to "rule by Cesarean decree"?
 
The EC is determined by congressional apportionment. For example, New Mexico has its requisite two senators plus three congressmen based on the three congressional districts allowed us based on the population of our state as indicated by a national census. Two plus three equals five EC votes. Now I wouldn't have a problem with the vote from each district determining who the EC vote of that district would go to instead of the total vote of the state determining where all five our our EC votes go, but nevertheless New Mexico has a voice, however, small in the process. As does Wyoming with three EC votes despite having only a little over a half million in population. Do away with the electoral college and neither New Mexico or Wyoming has any ability whatsoever to have a voice in who will govern us. And without having at least some EC votes in the process, nobody would give a damn about us or our concerns about anything.

On the other hand California, New York, Texas, Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, and Georgia--8 states out of 50 plus the District of Columbia--constitute roughly 50% of the population of the USA and with a combined EC vote of 225 EC votes they have roughly 42% of the total 538 EC. They still are a powerful force to be reckoned with in the process, but their sheer numbers alone do not offset the other 42 states that also need a voice in the process.

One thing is for sure. If a half dozen heavily Democrat and heavily populated counties in California had voted mostly Trump, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Or if a Republican President happened to garner more popular votes but the Democrat won the EC vote. And no way the Democrats would agree to the vote from each district determining the outcome rather than the winner take all system in most states. If that was the case, Republians would have won in 1992, 1996, 2008, 2012.

People, this is the kind of analysis that I was hoping for when I started the thread. Not one-liners, not unsubstantiated BS. This is a serious issue, coming to country near you.
 
100 million vote recounts.
There needs to be a better system.

The better system will be built with abolishing the Electoral College and voter reform to ensure each vote and each voter is equal.

The fact is the recount system we have in place now is woefully inadequate in may places. To use it as some sort of justification for keeping the present system is folly.
 
The EC is determined by congressional apportionment. For example, New Mexico has its requisite two senators plus three congressmen based on the three congressional districts allowed us based on the population of our state as indicated by a national census. Two plus three equals five EC votes. Now I wouldn't have a problem with the vote from each district determining who the EC vote of that district would go to instead of the total vote of the state determining where all five our our EC votes go, but nevertheless New Mexico has a voice, however, small in the process. As does Wyoming with three EC votes despite having only a little over a half million in population. Do away with the electoral college and neither New Mexico or Wyoming has any ability whatsoever to have a voice in who will govern us. And without having at least some EC votes in the process, nobody would give a damn about us or our concerns about anything.

On the other hand California, New York, Texas, Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, and Georgia--8 states out of 50 plus the District of Columbia--constitute roughly 50% of the population of the USA and with a combined EC vote of 225 EC votes they have roughly 42% of the total 538 EC. They still are a powerful force to be reckoned with in the process, but their sheer numbers alone do not offset the other 42 states that also need a voice in the process.

One thing is for sure. If a half dozen heavily Democrat and heavily populated counties in California had voted mostly Trump, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Or if a Republican President happened to garner more popular votes but the Democrat won the EC vote. And no way the Democrats would agree to the vote from each district determining the outcome rather than the winner take all system in most states. If that was the case, Republians would have won in 1992, 1996, 2008, 2012.

What is wrong with treating each vote the same and all voters equally?
 
So what did he tell him about the electoral college?

Did he tell him how this process has protected the country from good people and bad people that have passed through time by making it impossible to "rule by Cesarean decree"?


They failed us miserably in the most recent presidential election to perform their duty.
 
Yes, they do now..

If the current crop of unhinged democrats get their way in destroying another long lived institution the people in most states will have less of a say.

Good people get elected.
Bad people get elected.
The laws were put in place to protect the institutions against tyranny.

We have witnessed the overt attempts of progressives, democrats, and the left to corrupt and destroy the institutions that protect us from tyranny.
For what purpose would one want to get rid of an obstacle to tyranny?

FBI
DOJ
NSA
CIA

All the while in a red carpet show of transference and projection.

It sounds like you have never read Federalist Paper 68. I provide it for your illumination

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed68.asp
 
They failed us miserably in the most recent presidential election to perform their duty.

How so? Be specific please. The "orange man bad" argument is quite noodle-like in its efficacy just fyi.
 
How so? Be specific please. The "orange man bad" argument is quite noodle-like in its efficacy just fyi.

Did you read Federalist Paper 68 that was provided for you?
 
The electoral college forces a candidate for the only nationally elected office to appeal to the nation as a whole.

Here's a problem with your argument, Athanasius68. We have a President that ignores 60% of the voters in the nation because he won the EC, but lost the popular vote by 3% - 3 million votes. He has never appealed to the nation as a whole. He would not be President but for the EC, and it has been an absolute, unmitigated disaster for the nation as a whole. And, he won't change his approach, because his minority of supporters has a disproportionate influence over the EC. THAT is the political argument, and it is not a good situation.
 
The EC is determined by congressional apportionment. ...Now I wouldn't have a problem with the vote from each district determining who the EC vote of that district would go to instead of the total vote of the state determining where all five our our EC votes go, but nevertheless New Mexico has a voice, however, small in the process. As does Wyoming with three EC votes despite having only a little over a half million in population. Do away with the electoral college and neither New Mexico or Wyoming has any ability whatsoever to have a voice in who will govern us. And without having at least some EC votes in the process, nobody would give a damn about us or our concerns about anything.

... And no way the Democrats would agree to the vote from each district determining the outcome rather than the winner take all system in most states. If that was the case, Republians would have won in 1992, 1996, 2008, 2012.

Your comment is intriguing. So if EC votes were allocated by district (something like Maine's system?) the GOP would have won? You know where I can find out more about this?

Anyway, I agree with all your comments.
 


The founders rejected the tyranny of the majority.

Progressive democrats wish of course to establish a tyranny of the majority.

Getting what you want is often a curse when it all plays out at the end.

I wonder if they are even aware of what they are trying to destroy.


Prager and D'Souza taught you history? Of course... Personally, I'm glad you pay them. Less money spread over the Trump Dumbnation.
 
I support the EC and believe neither of your two choices. The Electoral College ensures and orderly transition of power. There is a procedure for determining the next President that has worked every time. I've yet to see a workable tie-breaking procedure from someone advocating for the National Popular vote, not have they come up with a scenario where the Constitution would be changed to go to that Procedure.
With respect, the tie breaking system is in the Constitution. That doesn't change, but the chance of a tie is ...um, nil?
 
The EC is determined by congressional apportionment. For example, New Mexico has its requisite two senators plus three congressmen based on the three congressional districts allowed us based on the population of our state as indicated by a national census. Two plus three equals five EC votes. Now I wouldn't have a problem with the vote from each district determining who the EC vote of that district would go to instead of the total vote of the state determining where all five our our EC votes go, but nevertheless New Mexico has a voice, however, small in the process. As does Wyoming with three EC votes despite having only a little over a half million in population. Do away with the electoral college and neither New Mexico or Wyoming has any ability whatsoever to have a voice in who will govern us. And without having at least some EC votes in the process, nobody would give a damn about us or our concerns about anything.

On the other hand California, New York, Texas, Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, and Georgia--8 states out of 50 plus the District of Columbia--constitute roughly 50% of the population of the USA and with a combined EC vote of 225 EC votes they have roughly 42% of the total 538 EC. They still are a powerful force to be reckoned with in the process, but their sheer numbers alone do not offset the other 42 states that also need a voice in the process.

One thing is for sure. If a half dozen heavily Democrat and heavily populated counties in California had voted mostly Trump, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Or if a Republican President happened to garner more popular votes but the Democrat won the EC vote. And no way the Democrats would agree to the vote from each district determining the outcome rather than the winner take all system in most states. If that was the case, Republians would have won in 1992, 1996, 2008, 2012.

Why are you against treating all votes and all voters as equals regardless of where they live?
 
It sounds like you have never read Federalist Paper 68. I provide it for your illumination

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68

Ahh yes. Hamilton.

Quite the character.

Conspired with the British against US interests.

"Hamilton independently informed the British leadership that the United States had no intention of joining in this neutral armament. Hamilton’s actions left Jay with little leverage to force the British to comply with U.S. demands."

Good example though.

Trump doggedly stands for US interests as beeto wilts at first opportunity.
 
Prager and D'Souza taught you history? Of course... Personally, I'm glad you pay them. Less money spread over the Trump Dumbnation.

Revisionist history is not history. History needs no modifiers just like crime or justice.
 
What is wrong with treating each vote the same and all voters equally?

Because that would be far too much like two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. The Founders wisely knew a tyranny of the majority is just as damaging as a tyranny of a minority. Their hope was to given everybody enough voice through the EC system so that tyranny would not be a factor.
 
Your comment is intriguing. So if EC votes were allocated by district (something like Maine's system?) the GOP would have won? You know where I can find out more about this?
Sources would be nice.

Here's the problem with the analysis: as noted previously, the EC favors low-population States, and not by a little bit. At the time the Constitution was ratified, the difference was not all that great, except in the South (because a large portion of the population was slaves). Contrary to contrarians, the popularity of the EC in the South was because of the 3/5th compromise - i.e. slaves. Now, of course, the disparity between California and Wyoming is huge, but Wyoming votes are more influential - not just in the EC, in Congress - than California votes. The Senate was a compromise. The current makeup of the House of Representatives has also been compromised since 1911. Ironically, the fight was the same as in 1783, and the same one we're having here. Even though the population of the United States has more than tripled since 1911, we have the same number of Representatives. That is NOT how the framers imagined it. That prejudice is carried over to the EC. Both need to be fixed.
 
Ahh yes. Hamilton.

Quite the character.

Conspired with the British against US interests.

"Hamilton independently informed the British leadership that the United States had no intention of joining in this neutral armament. Hamilton’s actions left Jay with little leverage to force the British to comply with U.S. demands."

Good example though.

Trump doggedly stands for US interests as beeto wilts at first opportunity.

Did you read Federalist Paper 68?
 
Revisionist history is not history. History needs no modifiers just like crime or justice.

Dinesh D’Souza and Dennis Prager are the WWE tag team champions of revisionist history.
 
Your inane partisan ramblings have nothing to do with current reality.


~~~~~~
DENIAL is not a river in Egypt…

The History of the Democratic Party – Rooted in Slavery ...
The History of the Democratic Party – Rooted in Slavery - Revolutionary Workers Group...
If Congress remained under the control of the Democrats, the slave owners would control the wealth of the country. Between the Northern industrialists and the Southern plantation-owners a deadly struggle was developing over which system of exploitation would rule …
************
Democrats want to keep you on the plantation
Millennial Views...
By being on these programs you become a financial slave to the government having to keep them happy. The democrats have corralled you into big cities away from their white constituents who live in the suburbs. They also conduct population control through aborting mostly black babies.
 
Because that would be far too much like two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. The Founders wisely knew a tyranny of the majority is just as damaging as a tyranny of a minority. Their hope was to given everybody enough voice through the EC system so that tyranny would not be a factor.

You use the word TYRANNY as a meaningless sop which is divorced from its meaning. There is no TYRANNY that exists and the removal of the EC would not give us tyranny. It would simply treat all votes as equal in law and in reality.

Every voter would have an equal voice in the system regardless of where they lived. That is not true today.
 
Your comment is intriguing. So if EC votes were allocated by district (something like Maine's system?) the GOP would have won? You know where I can find out more about this?

Anyway, I agree with all your comments.

Vote by congressional district 2016:
800px-2016_presidential_election%2C_results_by_congressional_district_%28popular_vote_margin%29.svg.png


I'm pretty sure in all those other elections, the graphic would be similar.

Somebody did the math and I believe the totals came out something like Clinton 248, Trump 290. The actual 2016 result was 304 Trump, 234 Clinton.
 
Back
Top Bottom