The Downfall Of Society

[AYSM]

I have always needed to carry a house key, and I'm no spring chicken. I think it has more to do with WHERE you live, not, WHEN you lived.

Yeah, throwing in the house key bit was probably not beneficial to argue the technology angle...definitely any argument of any social decline would be from a time and place perspective...I'll just say it seems to me there are less unlocked cars than used to be in general.

 

[AYSM]

Before telephones, people were free to not answer letters.

True that, especially the ones from bill collectors but it didn't keep them from picking up the mail.

 

[countryboy]

Yeah, throwing in the house key bit was probably not beneficial to argue the technology angle...definitely any argument of any social decline would be from a time and place perspective...I'll just say it seems to me there are less unlocked cars than used to be in general.

It was a valid point, and I was just giving my two cents. Wasn't trying to shoot down your point. I live in the country, and I could probably leave my house unlocked, but I don't. I lock my cars too.

I sometimes leave my sheds unlocked, and I have one of those "portable garages" from Harbor Freight, which is unlockable, haven't had any problems so far. <knocks on head> :mrgreen:

 

[Jetboogieman]

I've argued since shortly after it's introduction and gain in popularity, the downfall of society, in part, began with the invention of the telephone answering machine...it became a line of defense from honest human interaction...I submit that current events in communication technology bear that out.

Society is ever evolving so this thesis will likely ring more plausible with those who experienced society during my generation while the younger folks are diggin' their toys...amazing technology to say the least.

In the old days no answer meant no one near the phone...nowadays we have Ring where you can appear to be home when you really aren't...voice, floodlights, heck, set off an alarm...deter thieves, way cool

I preferred a society where we lived in neighborhoods where we didn't worry about even needing to carry a house key.

"Remember the good old days! When you could leave your front door unlocked... Cause you had **** all worth knicking (stealing)" - Frankie Boyle.

 

[AYSM]

i don't think technology has led to mistrust.

I'm thinking that might be addressed to some degree by Mueller re: Facebook, Twitter etcetera and then there are the security companies that thrive on things like ID protection...there appears to be some.

It is more likely our increasingly mobile society and the way corporations are run. Loyalty of companies to employees is pretty much non-existent today. Also, corporations have not remained loyal to the areas where they first established themselves. Corporations have contributed greatly to the increasingly cold, impersonal society we find today. Families no longer live near each other, promotions are gained only by moving to a new company in a new location. Mobility has become a way of life so fewer and fewer people and businesses ever set down roots and establish communities of trust.

Good points, there are many other symptoms we can attribute to social decline, as you mention, impersonal, aided in part by the telephone answering machine way back when...granted, we've evolved well beyond them.

 

[AYSM]

It was a valid point, and I was just giving my two cents. Wasn't trying to shoot down your point. I live in the country, and I could probably leave my house unlocked, but I don't. I lock my cars too.

I sometimes leave my sheds unlocked, and I have one of those "portable garages" from Harbor Freight, which is unlockable, haven't had any problems so far. <knocks on head> :mrgreen:

No problem, actually, I didn't view your quite valid point as a shot across the bow at all but rather valid to point out we all live with different circumstances providing different perspectives...I've lived in places where you wonder if you shouldn't put one of those club steering wheel locks on when you stop for a red light, on the other hand I much preferred living in a place where we left the keys in the vehicles just in case a neighbor heading out of the canyon needed to borrow one if theirs broke down.

Hopefully, you'll have no problems...my shed is a work in progress made with redwood, bamboo, shade cloth and a plastic water barrier...looks good from the front...some day perhaps I'll make a door for it and take down the painter's drop cloth currently providing security...:lol:

 

[devildavid]

I dont know that humans cant be happy healthy and wise living in a high technology society, but I do know that this technology that he have now is not working for us. A lot of the problem seems to be that we dont think, and we dont put ourselves first....we have long lived by "If we can build it then we should", which is idiotic.

How is it idiotic? Technology, on the whole, benefits us.

 

[Hawkeye10]

How is it idiotic? Technology, on the whole, benefits us.

Something is making us mentally and spiritually ill, I say it is this.

What do you blame.

 

[devildavid]

Something is making us mentally and spiritually ill, I say it is this.

What do you blame.

I don't agree with your diagnosis. "We" are not mentally ill, and I don't know what spiritual illness is. The OP and you are over-reacting to the supposed terrible state of society, which is in no way caused by technology. I would argue that technology has created a greater spirit of global community that was not possible in humanity's war-torn past when we had little information about people in other parts of the world, let alone the ability to instantly communicate with them.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I don't agree with your diagnosis. "We" are not mentally ill, and I don't know what spiritual illness is. The OP and you are over-reacting to the supposed terrible state of society, which is in no way caused by technology. I would argue that technology has created a greater spirit of global community that was not possible in humanity's war-torn past when we had little information about people in other parts of the world, let alone the ability to instantly communicate with them.

Well darn, we cant go any further on this then because I know what I know....for instance we dont get to anything as idiotic as Victim Culture if we were OK.

I mean I could stay here and argue about this thing I see, that I have experienced for 55 years with curiosity and some smarts and a great education, not to mention tenacity, but it would be like standing in front of an apple tree with you arguing over whether it is an apple tree or not....AS WE HAVE BEEN EATING ITS APPLES.

 

[devildavid]

Well darn, we cant go any further on this then because I know what I know....for instance we dont get to anything as idiotic as Victim Culture if we were OK.

I mean I could stay here and argue about this thing I see, that I have experienced for 55 years with curiosity and some smarts and a great education, not to mention tenacity, but it would be like standing in front of an apple tree with you arguing over whether it is an apple tree or not....AS WE HAVE BEEN EATING ITS APPLES.

You have an opinion, and you emphasize subjective things that back it. You do not see objective reality. You think you know things that can't be objectively verified. It is an old cliche that society is collapsing. It's a broken record. It has always been as untrue as it has been true. It all depends on your subjective point of view on what is good or bad in society. The world has been coming to an end ever since man emerged from the slime. What, me worry?

 

[Hawkeye10]

You have an opinion, and you emphasize subjective things that back it. You do not see objective reality. You think you know things that can't be objectively verified. It is an old cliche that society is collapsing. It's a broken record. It has always been as untrue as it has been true. It all depends on your subjective point of view on what is good or bad in society. The world has been coming to an end ever since man emerged from the slime. What, me worry?

Whistling past the graveyard tends to get what justice demands...BIG PAIN.

He who idiotically attempts to avoid the truth of the Universe gets slapped.

 

[Jetboogieman]

He who avoids the truth of the Universe gets slapped.

Far out man :roll:

 

[devildavid]

Whistling past the graveyard tends to get what justice demands...BIG PAIN.

He who avoids the truth of the Universe gets slapped.

There is no truth of the Universe. He who thinks he knows something is in danger of fogetting the Socratic paradox.

 

[AYSM]

I think a lot of this may just be romanticizing your childhood as if it were some golden age of peace and enlightenment. Violent crime is at an all time low and there are still neighborhoods where people don't spend much time thinking about security.

Without a doubt when making an argument regarding social decline it will carry some bias and I admit perhaps not romanticizing but fond memories of times past however, I'd hardly describe it as a "golden age of peace and enlightenment"...in fact, it was quite a bit of nowhere near peaceful at times...as to enlightenment, I would hope that is ongoing for most.

Certainly there is an argument that could be made that there is no downfall of society and everything is wonderful...not suggesting you are going there, just sayin'

People's memories tend to skew towards fondness when they lived in a safe neighborhood growing up, they don't put it into the context of society as a whole.

Actually, I think, as I indicated to countryboy...the argument would have been better served had I not brought the security aspect into the debate, my bad, in fact, some of my fondest memories are of times spent in some quite unsafe neighborhoods and environments. In todays world there are no doubt any number of options providing pretty much whatever one has a fondness for.

 

[devildavid]

I've argued since shortly after it's introduction and gain in popularity, the downfall of society, in part, began with the invention of the telephone answering machine...it became a line of defense from honest human interaction...I submit that current events in communication technology bear that out.

Society is ever evolving so this thesis will likely ring more plausible with those who experienced society during my generation while the younger folks are diggin' their toys...amazing technology to say the least.

In the old days no answer meant no one near the phone...nowadays we have Ring where you can appear to be home when you really aren't...voice, floodlights, heck, set off an alarm...deter thieves, way cool

I preferred a society where we lived in neighborhoods where we didn't worry about even needing to carry a house key.

This OP sounds like a funny monologue from a Quentin Tarantino film.

 

[AYSM]

I'm sure someone said the same when we invented pen and paper and began to write letters to people rather than speak.

The "leaving my front door unlocked" thing is a function of population, not "the times." Fact is, crime is objectively lower than it used to be . And I'm sure no one in New York City has felt like they could leave their door unlocked for over a hundred years. My dad's parents sure as hell didn't.

In the "good old days" that you're imagining from behind a veil of youthful nostalgia, more Americans lived in rural areas than they do now.

Agreed, in fact the pen and paper concept already came up in this thread.

Yeah, yeah, the locked door bit again...the times they are a changin'...population growth also contributes to the problem.

Right, and I grew up where I didn't hesitate to hitch-hike into Hollywood as a teenager just to go visit friends...from there I might hitch-hike to Santa Barbara or Isla Vista...one afternoon I decided to, as Crocodile Dundee would say, "Go on a walkabout"...hitched to the train yard ended up in El Paso before heading back (a trip I had forgotten when I said in another thread I hadn't been south of I-40 east of the Rockies) ...I wonder if those sorts of adventures are viewed as no biggie in today's world from a security standpoint? Sure seemed to be no biggie back then judging by the volume of people doing it and the ease of getting a ride.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Agreed, in fact the pen and paper concept already came up in this thread.

Yeah, yeah, the locked door bit again...the times they are a changin'...population growth also contributes to the problem.

Right, and I grew up where I didn't hesitate to hitch-hike into Hollywood as a teenager just to go visit friends...from there I might hitch-hike to Santa Barbara or Isla Vista...one afternoon I decided to, as Crocodile Dundee would say, "Go on a walkabout"...hitched to the train yard ended up in El Paso before heading back (a trip I had forgotten when I said in another thread I hadn't been south of I-40 east of the Rockies) ...I wonder if those sorts of adventures are viewed as no biggie in today's world from a security standpoint? Sure seemed to be no biggie back then judging by the volume of people doing it and the ease of getting a ride.

It wasn't any safer then than it is now. Like I said, crime is actually much lower now. You just didn't know it was dangerous, because you didn't get as much news or statistics information as we do now. People disappeared all the time, dude.

But yes, people do still do that. I've met some. It's not viewed as "no biggie," but frankly I don't think it was back then either, if the disdain and even institutional violence that countercultures used to suffer back then is anything to go by. At least now they don't throw you in a nut house for trying to disobey your parents' expectations.

Again, pretty sure this is just a golden age fallacy that never was.

 

[Mycroft]

I've argued since shortly after it's introduction and gain in popularity, the downfall of society, in part, began with the invention of the telephone answering machine...it became a line of defense from honest human interaction...I submit that current events in communication technology bear that out.

Society is ever evolving so this thesis will likely ring more plausible with those who experienced society during my generation while the younger folks are diggin' their toys...amazing technology to say the least.

In the old days no answer meant no one near the phone...nowadays we have Ring where you can appear to be home when you really aren't...voice, floodlights, heck, set off an alarm...deter thieves, way cool

I preferred a society where we lived in neighborhoods where we didn't worry about even needing to carry a house key.

Yes...society is ever evolving and sure...lots of us prefer the old ways, or at least some of the old ways, but I wouldn't characterize the changes as "The Downfall Of Society".

 

[Hawkeye10]

There is no truth of the Universe. He who thinks he knows something is in danger of fogetting the Socratic paradox.

Truth is not universal, this truth we see is only found true in certain times and places, the trick is knowing which ones,....that is what education is for.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Yes...society is ever evolving and sure...lots of us prefer the old ways, or at least some of the old ways, but I wouldn't characterize the changes as "The Downfall Of Society".

Evolving or devolving, and when we dont generally do things well or correctly then you can bet your next paycheck that we are devolving.

Our President is Donald Trump.

We are evolving?

NO

 

[AYSM]

It wasn't any safer then than it is now. Like I said, crime is actually much lower now. You just didn't know it was dangerous, because you didn't get as much news or statistics information as we do now. People disappeared all the time, dude.

But yes, people do still do that. I've met some. It's not viewed as "no biggie," but frankly I don't think it was back then either, if the disdain and even institutional violence that countercultures used to suffer back then is anything to go by. At least now they don't throw you in a nut house for trying to disobey your parents' expectations.

Again, pretty sure this is just a golden age fallacy that never was.

You're probably right, many think I'm crazy and tend to "go for it" at times when others wouldn't...must say it's been fun...:lol:

We certainly live in an age where information travels faster, both true and false.

By my early 20's I had read enough news accountings about things I had first hand knowledge of and I came to a point of disgust figuring if they couldn't get the facts right about what I know as truth, seems likely most of the rest is crap too...I went about two decades where I would avoid even looking at a news stand and surf past any news on the tube...my lifestyle took a turn and I was working long hours and became a proud poppa...didn't have time for concerning myself with who was blowing the **** out of who...riots, civil rights, potential life in prison...got a couple of good stories about our justice system in America I'll relate along the way one of these days

In the mean time, I see a society in decline and technology is a double edge sword...you want to hear the really funny part...I was a general class ham radio operator at the age of thirteen and worked on Saturdays in retail electronics parts sales...I remember we had a little box in a case with RCA plugs, unshielded variety (those are the plugs used to hook up speakers to a radio generally used in pairs) anyway, we sold them two for a nickel...a Radio Shack moved into the region and they of course have a different approach...put five in a cardboard and plastic package on a hook and have a clerk take the cash...$0.69...the good ole days.

Have good today's

 

[AYSM]

Yes...society is ever evolving and sure...lots of us prefer the old ways, or at least some of the old ways, but I wouldn't characterize the changes as "The Downfall Of Society".

Yeah, a bit too melodramatic? How about decline of society? Heck, just look at what Trump has been able to do with his phone...he's been able to bring doubt among much of the world, the concept that the President of the United States is the "leader of the free world" so regardless of what we attribute it to, I see a society...the American society in decline...seriously, how can it not be after our wild rise and arrogant use of the worlds resources building an economic methodology that can't be sustained...not without the acceptance of the rest of the world...and they ain't buyin' it as easy as they have in the past.

 

[devildavid]

Truth is not universal, this truth we see is only found true in certain times and places, the trick is knowing which ones,....that is what education is for.

No, that is not what the truth is either. What you are describing is subjective opinion. Education is not about learning what is the truth of the moment, it is about leaning how to think and analyze and use your brain. Education does not give us knowledge or truth, it only tries to train us how to pursue knowledge, which is a lifelong task.

 

[zyzygy]

http://mentalfloss.com/article/52209/15-historical-complaints-about-young-people-ruining-everything