The curious case of Michael Flynn: Timeline of twists and turns in ex-official's prosecution

[Atomic Kid]

Lol @ the deal with it declaration. Deal with your own hypocrisy.

Even Comey admitted that Hillary did things that were illegal and you and others were content to defend her not being charged because she didnt know better. Please tell us how a woman with as much experience in the highest levels of government did not know the proper handling procedures for classified information.

The double standard by the left is on full display

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No he said she was "careless". Learn to read. The IG's report even highlighted the fact the State Department's practices in regard to the marking and handling of classified information was at best ambiguous and if they were to charge Ms Clinton in her handling of it they would have to charge hundreds of other State Department people as well. The bottom line is that Flynn's offenses are an entire world away and far more dangerous to US interests and security than anything in comparison to Hillary.

 

[trouble13]

No he said she was "careless". Learn to read. The IG's report even highlighted the fact the State Department's practices in regard to the marking and handling of classified information was at best ambiguous and if they were to charge Ms Clinton in her handling of it they would have to charge hundreds of other State Department people as well. The bottom line is that Flynn's offenses are an entire world away and far more dangerous to US interests and security than anything in comparison to Hillary.

Smantical word games dont help your position. Flynn was careless with his words, see how easy that is


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[Praxas]

Smantical word games dont help your position. Flynn was careless with his words, see how easy that is

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Actually you are incorrect as usual. Have fun dealing with the fact Flynn is going to jail and Trump and Company are in "trouble" maybe even 13 times :lamo. Talk about irony of your post :lamo

 

[Atomic Kid]

Are you claiming they didnt have a warrant or that it wasnt at 4am?

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What??? Of course they had a warrant. And they had to work very hard to get it too. Because raiding an attorney's office is not a matter that the DOJ takes lightly. If you want to get a warrant for that you will have to get approval for such a warrant from the high levels of the DOJ. And seeing as though Mr Cohen was up awake and dressed enough to answer the knock at his door that such would not have been the case at 4:00 am.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Smantical word games dont help your position. Flynn was careless with his words, see how easy that is


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Flynn was deliberate with his words as the agents gave him every chance to modify his statements if he so desired by gently reminding him in his own words of what they had seen and heard him say and Flynn decided instead to double down on them.

 

[notquiteright]

As much as Faux Noise and the tRumpers want to cast this rather routine request for some facts (to render a sentence not question the events) into a trashing of Mueller fact is the defense is throwing tRump… ahhh crap on the wall in the hopes some positive spin can be put on a disgraced General.

No one with double digit IQ can believe General Flynn (a career in the so-called intelligence field) thought it was OK to lie to the FBI... :doh

No one believes General Flynn thought the FBI told him he didn't need, or shouldn't bring a lawyer was any sort of order.

No one believes General Flynn didn't has access to legal council BEFORE he spoke to the FBI.

How tRumped up do you have to be to buy into that crapfest…. eace

 

[trouble13]

What??? Of course they had a warrant. And they had to work very hard to get it too. Because raiding an attorney's office is not a matter that the DOJ takes lightly. If you want to get a warrant for that you will have to get approval for such a warrant from the high levels of the DOJ. And seeing as though Mr Cohen was up awake and dressed enough to answer the knock at his door that such would not have been the case at 4:00 am.

I wont swear to it but I am pretty sure it was 4am. I'm still looking for a link with the time of the raid in it.



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[trouble13]

Flynn was deliberate with his words as the agents gave him every chance to modify his statements if he so desired by gently reminding him in his own words of what they had seen and heard him say and Flynn decided instead to double down on them.

Hilliary was deliberate in removing classification headers and she was deliberate in cleaning and destroying her drives. She deliberately set up her own private server.

I can play the same word games

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[trouble13]

As much as Faux Noise and the tRumpers want to cast this rather routine request for some facts (to render a sentence not question the events) into a trashing of Mueller fact is the defense is throwing tRump… ahhh crap on the wall in the hopes some positive spin can be put on a disgraced General.

No one with double digit IQ can believe General Flynn (a career in the so-called intelligence field) thought it was OK to lie to the FBI... :doh

No one believes General Flynn thought the FBI told him he didn't need, or shouldn't bring a lawyer was any sort of order.

No one believes General Flynn didn't has access to legal council BEFORE he spoke to the FBI.

How tRumped up do you have to be to buy into that crapfest…. eace

If he knew all that why do you think he agreed to voluntarily talk to them and without legal council? What was the reason?

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[notquiteright]

If he knew all that why do you think he agreed to voluntarily talk to them and without legal council? What was the reason?

Have to ask him but do you think anyone with a double digit IQ thinks it's ok to lie to the FBI???? eace

 

[<alt>doxygen]

A general ... the National Security Advisor ... needed to be told it was a crime to lie to the FBI.

Well, I'm sure he'll get his transcripts, but what a shabby excuse for lying to the FBI. "I didn't know it was against the law to lie to the FBI, so I lied to them. Because ... duh ... I was a member of Trump's administration. You thought I would tell the truth without being threatened with jail time?"


Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Just like it has been interesting to see how all the rest of the legal troubles of Trump's criminal associates have played out. Mueller may have made some mistakes along the way, but I'm sure he'll be able to show he and his team took a whole lot more care to do their jobs right than Trump and his administration have taken in their jobs.

The Trump cult's excuses for Trumpist lawbreaking are soooo unpredictable...:lamo

But lying about a BJ, now THAT is a high crime!

 

[RAMOSS]

And they did just that ... with redactions.
They essentially said "Yeah we deceived Flynn, but he still lied to us"
So it's worse (for them) than it looked before.
From what was initially read in the memo, I said it looked like they made it look like the interview was just a chat among friends. Now it's definite ... that was intentional.
If there's a backfire it won't be against Flynn.

WHy, yes yes it could be. Instead of 0 to 6 months, it could be 5 years. That would be a backfire. Now, one must wonder if this claim had any basis in reality, why it would be NOW, just before sentencing, rather than when he was cooperating and pleading.

 

[GDViking]

Because no one has been charged with it since 1852 (if I recall) and no one has ever been convicted under it. So why a charge guaranteed to be controversial if you don’t need to?


I have no knowledge of other incoming administration memembers making private deals with a foreign power without the knowledge or approval of the incoming or outgoing administration Do you have some examples?

Romsfeld with Iranians over hostages a d guns during the election....

 

[apdst]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/case-michael-flynn-timeline


It's high time Mueller gets investigated, and while they're at it, get the 302s from Hillary's interviews. I'm sure they exist, right?

If they haven't been destroyed, they soon will be. Just like when the FBI "accidentally lost" the Strzok/Page text messages.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Hilliary was deliberate in removing classification headers and she was deliberate in cleaning and destroying her drives. She deliberately set up her own private server.

I can play the same word games

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What??? Hillary "removed' the classification markers? How the hell could she do that? And there is no evidence that she was deliberate in in cleaning up or destroying her drives in order to avoid any legal consequences. The 'cleaning' software her IT person used was "Bleach Bit" is "freeware". Not exactly the kind of thing one would use to defeat a highly sophisticated FBI cyber search if you have reason to be concerned that you might soon become the target of such a search.

 

[apdst]

A general ... the National Security Advisor ... needed to be told it was a crime to lie to the FBI.

Well, I'm sure he'll get his transcripts, but what a shabby excuse for lying to the FBI. "I didn't know it was against the law to lie to the FBI, so I lied to them. Because ... duh ... I was a member of Trump's administration. You thought I would tell the truth without being threatened with jail time?"


Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Just like it has been interesting to see how all the rest of the legal troubles of Trump's criminal associates have played out. Mueller may have made some mistakes along the way, but I'm sure he'll be able to show he and his team took a whole lot more care to do their jobs right than Trump and his administration have taken in their jobs.

Is the FBI above the law? What about Mueller?

 

[DiAnna]

I think Reagan hamstringing Carter on the Iranian hostage deal, then orchestrating the release as he was being inaugurated, qualifies as an example.

True. I forgot about that, lol. I voted for Reagan twice, but went :doh as I did it the second time. Democrats had trouble finding decent candidates back then, too!

 

[Common Sense 1]

I love right wing fantasy.

But not as much as left wing fantasy. Right? eace

 

[DiAnna]

Wrong question to ask.

The question is: why did he go to the interview? The answer is Flynn wanted to talk to the FBI just as much as they wanted to talk to him. Flynn wanted to know what the FBI was investigating, and was concerned the campaigns contacts with Russian nationals were under suspicion.

He probably didn't believe the FBI would refer criminal charges against him false statement, and believed his charm and lies would be enough to throw them off course.

According to the transcripts and follow-up FBI documents, Flynn was one damned good liar. The agents knew he was lying because they saw the transcripts; but if they hadn't known, they would have believed Flynn was telling the truth because he displayed none of the normal subconscious tells they usually look for. They seemed pretty impressed by that, lol.

 

[RAMOSS]

Smantical word games dont help your position. Flynn was careless with his words, see how easy that is


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When it comes to the rule of law, semantics is very important. If you ever have gone through a trial as a juror, you will realize the nitpicking of language involved.

 

[apdst]

Well, this is a report in Newsweek from 12/01/17 indicating what Flynn lied about:

https://www.newsweek.com/michael-flynn-charged-special-counsel-russia-investigation-728304

Now none of what he discussed was in and of itself illegal, i.e. Flynn was doing his job at the time when discussing this stuff with Kislyak.

However, when questioned by FBI agents who had a transcript of the conversation thanks to secret monitoring, he denied that he said these things.

I have mentioned before how I believe it is more likely than not Flynn considered this was confidential information at that time and did not want this conversation "leaked" and used against the President to disrupt relations with Russia. (Which IMO is exactly what many people were trying to do at that time.)

So he lied about a discussion of something that was not a crime, and yet was charged for lying to investigators which is the ONLY crime they could come up with.

This is my problem with "lying to investigators" statutes; that a person can be convicted of not being honest while not under oath requiring one to be honest.

As also stated elsewhere, what you say in any conversation can already be used against you in a court of law by any witness directly involved in the conversation, to impugn your honesty. So why do we need criminal charges for lying to investigators if there is no seminal crime being lied about?

Which brings us to the "materially false" part of the law.

 

[apdst]

18 USC 953
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Trying to get Russia to not retaliate for sanctions certainly qualifies.


Why do you think he lied if he, as you claim, did nothing illegal in his conversation? And it wasn’t just to FBI, it was to Pence and many others.

Flynn had authority.

John Kerry, on the other hand, doesn't.

 

[DiAnna]

I wont swear to it but I am pretty sure it was 4am. I'm still looking for a link with the time of the raid in it.



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It couldn't have been. There were three simultaneous raids by three separate teams; one of the teams went into the offices of the law firm Cohen worked with, during business hours, and coordinated their search with representatives of that law firm. They did not break into a law firm, a hotel room, and a private residence at 4:00 am.

 

[pinqy]

Flynn had authority.

John Kerry, on the other hand, doesn't.

He had no authority to strike deals with the Russian government in December 2016, and even once installed as NSA, that still would have been outside his authority.

 

[apdst]

He had no authority to strike deals with the Russian government in December 2016, and even once installed as NSA, that still would have been outside his authority.

Of course he did.