The Confederate Flag

[veritas1]

MO, KY and MD didn't secede, so Lincoln could not by executive action or as CiC end slavery in those states. The constitution did not allow it. Maybe you didn't know that.

Sure he could. The Emancipation Proclamation could have ended slavery everywhere instead of only in the states then in rebellion. Funny, when the Union took over part of Tennessee, slavery was maintained in the part they held but outlawed in the part they didn't hold. Obviously, the North didn't want a lot of newly freed blacks behind the lines to be taken care of or otherwise moved.

 

[Dans La Lune]

"The Founding Father's didn't secede from America specifically so they could own human beings."

There are a number of reasons why someone would make such a statement. In order of my guesses as to why:
English isn't your native tongue.
The United States is not your native country.
You are very young and still in high school.
You are mentally challenged.

Just so you know, "the Founding Fathers" never seceded from America. They didn't secede from anything.

Or perhaps you just can’t ****ing read. The comparison was between the Founding Fathers and the Confederacy. The CONFEDERACY actually did what the Founding Fathers didn’t. The Confederacy was purely about slavery. They fought a war AGAINST America to maintain their lazy, slave-owning existence. They were traitors and losers. The right-wing has a long, proven history of that.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Uhm, you do realize that the Geneva Conventions didn't come into being until LONG after the civil war, don't you? I suggest you don't try to go all self righteously partisan after the fact.

Here's a little war crime atrocity from the rebels.

View attachment 67271122

Yes. It's why I stated that Scorched Earth is "now a violation of the Geneva Conventions." Are you being deliberately obtuse or did you simply miss that part?

Yes, the war was very brutal and inhumane. The point being none of it would never have happened if Lincoln didn't order the invasion of the South. As for Andersonville, smart people know that a Scorched Earth strategy starves everyone, not just soldiers. It's one of the reasons the Geneva Convention has now banned the strategy.


Andersonville National Historic Site - Wikipedia
At this stage of the war, Andersonville Prison was frequently undersupplied with food. By 1864, not only civilians living within the Confederacy but also the soldiers of the Confederate Army itself were struggling to obtain sufficient quantities of food. The shortage of fare was suffered by prisoners and Confederate personnel alike within the fort, but the prisoners received less than the guards, who unlike their captives did not become severely emaciated or suffer from scurvy (a consequence of vitamin C deficiency due to a lack of fresh fruits and vegetables in their diet). The latter was likely a major cause of the camp's high mortality rate, as well as dysentery and typhoid fever, which were the result of filthy living conditions and poor sanitation; the only source of drinking water originated from a creek which also served as the camp's latrine, which was filled at all times with fecal matter from thousands of sick and dying men. Even when sufficient quantities of supplies were available, they were of poor quality and inadequately prepared.

 

[it's just me]

Fifty years ago, as I was saying, sure, just as the GOP conservatives started hating minorities. You need to think about the logic of your comment.

And you need to learn history.

 

[veritas1]

No it's not. It's the right wing threatening rebellion if they don't get their way.

We're not threatening a damn thing. We want to be left alone and our Constitutional rights to be observed. Only by disarming us can the left then inflict whatever they want on us. That's not going to happen.

 

[it's just me]

You just got to laugh.

:lamo


Sure Wallace, Maddox and Byrd were Democrats but they weren't exactly north eastern liberals. They were southern conservatives. But it sure is funny watching them twist themselves into pretzels trying to at the time, condemn old racist Democrats and defend the South.


:lamo

Yeah, your threats about marginalizing people for telling the truth make me laugh.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Or perhaps you just can’t ****ing read....

A good reason for you to put me on ignore and save yourself the aggravation.

 

[Master Debator]

We're not threatening a damn thing. We want to be left alone and our Constitutional rights to be observed. Only by disarming us can the left then inflict whatever they want on us. That's not going to happen.

Your constitutional rights are whatever the constitution and courts say they are. The 2nd amendment can be repealed. Legally.

 

[it's just me]

Frankly all of the people I spoke to in the South on various trips, I simply can not confirm that and so far you have not either.

When in VA where I purchased my confederate battle flag, even the clerk never told me she hates minorities.

Most of the people who talk about the south know nothing about it. They are just spouting left wing talking points.

 

[Tigerace117]

The Union Army is responsible for the mass murder of over 50,000 civilians in their Scorched Earth campaign. Scorched Earth has been deemed so inhumane that it's now a violation of the Geneva Conventions. It's sad but unsurprising to see a Liberal applauding mass murder of Southern civilians and expressing so much hatred that they advocate war crimes and atrocities. Is it any wonder why so many people do not trust the Democratic party?

It’s always amusing to watch the people who like to cry about how we can’t judge the confederacy by today’s standards turn around and try to cry about Sherman’s brilliant march to the sea.

The first Geneva Convention was not established until 1864 and was not expanded until much later on. Considering that the Germans were allowed, under the “laws of war” of the time, to summarily execute francs-tireaurs during the Franco-Prussian War—which, by the way, occurred after the civil war—-it is pretty obvious that there was no restriction the Union was violating during Sherman’s march to the sea.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Your constitutional rights are whatever the constitution and courts say they are. The 2nd amendment can be repealed. Legally.

as can the rights of anyone below a certain IQ or education level from accessing the Internet or voting.

 

[Master Debator]

Yeah, your threats about marginalizing people for telling the truth make me laugh.

I wasn't threatening you I was laughing at you and I agree that those guys were old racist Democrats, they were also southerner conservatives(if you count west Virginia as the south). That's also the truth. And it is funny to watch you all twist in pretzels to try and pretend that those guys have anything in common politically with progressives like Bernie and AOC.

 

[Tigerace117]

Still you deny what Abe the outlaw president said. Why not study Abe lincoln who normally democrats hate yet for an odd reason like this war monger.

What happened to you clearly is you got fooled when in school. Shot for treason?

Secession is precisely what Washington did so do you also want him shot? PS, we have yet to learn how to shoot dead people.

Except, importantly, Washington was not fighting to expand and defend slavery.

Yes, the Confederates were traitors. Hate to burst your bubble.

“War monger” considering that the confederates fired the first shots, and seceded before he had done anything even remotely hostile to slavery, your argument is laughable.

 

[Divine_Wind]

....it is pretty obvious that there was no restriction the Union was violating during Sherman’s march to the sea.

Straw man argument; no one claimed Sherman violated any legal restrictions. He was free to commit mass murder of civilians.

 

[Master Debator]

as can the rights of anyone below a certain IQ or education level from accessing the Internet or voting.

Sure. But do you think you can get that passed before we take your guns? :lamo

 

[JasperL]

I do not have black neighbors who are so hateful that were I to fly my confederate flag (made in China) on my porch they would hate such a neighbor. In fact, i feel very safe here were i to fly it. But in my 6 months of living here, No thought by me to fly my flag has resulted in flying the flag.

I don't know if they'd "hate" me but assuming I'm a white supremacist is rational and a good guess in this area.

Let me tell you this much. When I was in the army, side by side from blacks from the South, I found the blacks to display wanton racism. And our units also had our own battle flag. Each company had a flag bearer at the head of the march. I was in from 623-64 and of course chatted with lads who were from the South who were jerks when around Blacks and taunted them. It truly dismayed me that they did. But that happened 60 years ago. Take my platoon during Basic Training, I was made the platoon sgt by the commanding officer and sleeping in our private room with me was a black guy. We were great friends. He and I did not ever discuss racism since to him I was not racist.

And in 62-64 in this area if that black guy showed up at the local restaurants in town, he'd have been denied service. Made to sit in the back of the buses, in the balcony of the theaters, gone to segregated schools, etc. and the people in that era fighting to keep it that way forever wrapped themselves in the Loser's flag, like racist scum do today. If you don't mind aligning with those people, intentionally or not, fine with me.

 

[Dans La Lune]

A good reason for you to put me on ignore and save yourself the aggravation.

You think way too highly of yourself if you think you’re worth ignoring.

 

[Tigerace117]

Why didn't Abe issue his proclamation ahead of his war? As to the blacks getting freedom I feel very bad that in Africa they lost freedom so captains of ships bought a ship load of them from blacks.

I cited evidence. Sticking to Americans killed by Hitler vs Americans killed by Abe, Abe wins that battle. Don't forget how many Americans the Japanese and Italians killed.

By the same standard one could claim Jefferson Davis was worse than Hitler, because he was the one who started the war in the first place. Funny how you are desperately trying to attribute the deaths of those under his command to Lincoln.

They were brought here because of the demand for slaves. Had Europeans not wanted slaves they never would have been offered.

 

[JasperL]

I would have passed on explaining why you currently support racists as your current candidates for POTUS while posting in the same thread as the now historical century and a half old confederate flag being racist. I mean its not like you could defend that blatant hypocrisy. So you hate what you believe to be racist objects and want them removed from public view yet at the same time golf clap and support actual racists. Got it. Yeah I'd definitely bail on that if I were you.

Just curious, which racists do I support?

 

[Divine_Wind]

Sure. But do you think you can get that passed before we take your guns? :lamo

LOL. Let's see you repeal the Second Amendment and then order the US military to start confiscating every civilian gun in the nation first. I'm curious to see how that works out for you.

 

[JasperL]

So you are against people peacefully using free speech to oppose the removal of historic artifacts from public view?

Well, there was the murder at the rally, so that's not all that peaceful.

 

[Tigerace117]

Straw man argument; no one claimed Sherman violated any legal restrictions. He was free to commit mass murder of civilians.

The Confederates actually committed mass murder, at Fort Pillow, for instance, as well as during the raids of thugs like Bloody Bill Anderson and William Quantrill.

Not to mention the plan to execute the officers of USCTs, which was only abandoned when Lincoln made it clear that such actions would be reciprocated.

Germany didn’t look so great in 1945 either. That’s what happens when you start a war and get your ass kicked.

 

[Divine_Wind]

You think way too highly of yourself if you think you’re worth ignoring.

LOL. Another reason to believe English isn't your native tongue. It's the other way around, sir. You obviously think I'm worth not ignoring.....and you're right! :2wave:

 

[veritas1]

Your constitutional rights are whatever the constitution and courts say they are. The 2nd amendment can be repealed. Legally.

Go ahead and try to get 38 states to repeal it. Good luck.

 

[JasperL]

Sure he could. The Emancipation Proclamation could have ended slavery everywhere instead of only in the states then in rebellion. Funny, when the Union took over part of Tennessee, slavery was maintained in the part they held but outlawed in the part they didn't hold. Obviously, the North didn't want a lot of newly freed blacks behind the lines to be taken care of or otherwise moved.

No, the EP could not do that in states remaining in the union. You're making that up, and we all know it.

As to Tennessee, if you want to stick with that example, that's fine. Not releasing slaves in areas friendly to the union was strategic, hypocritical if you will.

It's not because they didn't want slaves to take care of - part of the EP was to recruit people to fight, and many did, roughly 200,000 for the Union.