The Confederate Flag

[Master Debator]

What was out of context? That's what he posted.

The part where you intimated that not believing in inalienable rights means I wouldn't have moral objections to slavery.

 

[JasperL]

Please cite a single post where he defended slavery. If you can't, will you admit it or just run away?

We all can because he's been doing it throughout the thread. He might as well be a UDC pamphlet. This is after your post, but it gets the sentiment down. See post #1517

You might be shocked at how many slaves truly liked living on plantations.
1. Job security
2. Bonus payment for working hard. Both Washington and Jefferson used the bonus payment as a way to keep slaves from running off.
3. Living with the rich. It was great to live in a home built by the rich. Even if it had no indoor plumbing.

:roll:

 

[Robertinfremont]

LOL, that is literally stuff that might come from the UDC or equivalent, the promoters of Lost Cause mythology for generations. It's that nonsense we're fighting in 2019, which is pretty damn depressing. It's exactly why I'd like to see all those old "Confederate" monuments taken down and moved to museums or private farms or anywhere but in the public square. They celebrate a lie, the lie you're spouting above, the Lost Cause myth.

Explain this myth as I explained the myth that all slaves were beaten. Democrats should stop telling that lie.

If you demanded I explain this lost cause to you or this forum, frankly I am not able to. Maybe Rising sun can explain this so called myth.

I wish I understood why Democrats will fall in love with an american president who should have been impeached.

 

[Divine_Wind]

He can't beat me in real debates so he has got to invent his own wins.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

No, it wouldn't have. In fact, no one was killed by the South Carolina troops. One Union soldier was killed in an accident and, if they'd have done as you advised, more probably would have been killed. You do know that Fort Sumter is on an island, right? Don't worry, you don't have to admit it.

I know that fort Sumter was on a island.

The civil war was inevitable and the conflict was something this country needed to undergo. The crucible of war determined which vision of our countries future would triumph: the vision of the free state or that of the slave states. The free states won, the confederate states of America lost, and the United States of America was now united in a common national identity.

 

[Robertinfremont]

He can't beat me in real debates so he has got to invent his own wins.

The Seahawks played a game they believed they could not lose to the 49rs. But the 49ers won. So I do beat the Democrats in debates. When I do, they move goal posts, invent fake stories and act hostile.

 

[JasperL]

Disagreed, but you are free to join Master Debater in advocating that destroying the Lincoln Memorial is justified.

There's nothing to disagree about - a monument isn't "history." It's a thing of metal or rock or other substance, and removing it isn't to destroy any history, any more than erecting a monument creates any history, beyond the "history" of that monument itself. That's not opinion, really, but just reality.

But if you insist on that stupid argument, then to leave up a monument to a slaver and Grand Klukker like NB Forrest is to DESTROY the HISTORY of every other American, millions and millions of them. Is that really the argument you want to make, as a serious case for keeping up that monument to person A, that it's worth DESTROYING the history of millions of others to preserve the history of that one man?

 

[Robertinfremont]

I know that fort Sumter was on a island.

The civil war was inevitable and the conflict was something this country needed to undergo. The crucible of war determined which vision of our countries future would triumph: the vision of the free state or that of the slave states. The free states won, the confederate states of America lost, and the United States of America was now united in a common national identity.

Is on an Island. Not was.

I see, now you are united behind Trump? How happy that makes me.

 

[Master Debator]

:lmao

View attachment 67271183

I love watching you Confederate lovers dance. I love watching you pretend. I'm winning. :mrgreen:

 

[Divine_Wind]

We all can because he's been doing it throughout the thread. He might as well be a UDC pamphlet. This is after your post, but it gets the sentiment down. See post #1517



:roll:

Thanks for the link. I stand corrected. Slavery was an abomination and is never justified. If a slave "likes" slavery it's because it's all they know. I doubt anyone on this forum would volunteer to be a slave for "job security" and regular meals.

 

[JasperL]

What you tell me as a loyal Democrat is that were you a plantation owner at the time, rather than pay slaves bonus money, you would beat the hell out of them?

I sure would not.

You put the cash value of a slave at $20,000 but other sources up that to $40,000. Again, you own a valuable item worth either amount, your solution would be to beat them as a still loyal democrat? Not me. Bonus money did not have to be very high. And it was an incentive program.

Why don't you assume the plantations had too much sense to want to cause the death of valuable slaves?

That famous slave photo showing him beaten. That was so rare the Union made a hell of a deal out of it. That photo perhaps is the root of this myth.

Again use the example that men beat wives., Do you think your neighbors beat their wives? Do any of your family members beat their wives? I prefer to see this as a rare event.

I'm tired of your baseless Lost Cause mythology. It's about as bad as arguing with a young earth creationist.

 

[Master Debator]

Thanks for the link. I stand corrected. Slavery was an abomination and is never justified. If a slave "likes" slavery it's because it's all they know. I doubt anyone on this forum would volunteer to be a slave for "job security" and regular meals.

Maybe he wasn't standing in front of the right statues when he was learning about slavery.

:lamo

 

[ecofarm]

We all can because he's been doing it throughout the thread. He might as well be a UDC pamphlet. This is after your post, but it gets the sentiment down. See post #1517



:roll:

He thinks slaves lived in the house? Elementary school children know better.

 

[Divine_Wind]

I know that fort Sumter was on a island.

The civil war was inevitable and the conflict was something this country needed to undergo. The crucible of war determined which vision of our countries future would triumph: the vision of the free state or that of the slave states. The free states won, the confederate states of America lost, and the United States of America was now united in a common national identity.

Well, you do now. :mrgreen:

As noted several times before, the Constitution's 3/5s clause was an issue. It authorized slavery and the Southern states felt that Northern moves to abolish slavery were unconstitutional. There were other solutions besides war but given the nature of human beings, it was what it was.

Do you know that Lincoln didn't invade the South to free the slaves or even to stop slavery?

 

[it's just me]

Why do you let someone you don't even know and proclaim is an "idiot", dictate your life?

If I let idiots dictate my life, I'd be a Trump supporter.

Too late. Just coming here means idiots dictate my life. Isn't that what you just did?

 

[Master Debator]

Explain this myth as I explained the myth that all slaves were beaten. Democrats should stop telling that lie.

If you demanded I explain this lost cause to you or this forum, frankly I am not able to. Maybe Rising sun can explain this so called myth.

I wish I understood why Democrats will fall in love with an american president who should have been impeached.

Thanks for the link. I stand corrected. Slavery was an abomination and is never justified. If a slave "likes" slavery it's because it's all they know. I doubt anyone on this forum would volunteer to be a slave for "job security" and regular meals.

Nope! :lamo

I told you none of your fellow Confederate lovers were going to jump down this rabbit hole with you. They are embarrassed by people like you. They're trying to sell a lie and you make hysterically difficult on them to do so.

 

[Master Debator]

Do you know that Lincoln didn't invade the South to free the slaves or even to stop slavery?

So? How does that make that south any less wrong?

 

[JasperL]

Well, you do now. :mrgreen:

As noted several times before, the Constitution's 3/5s clause was an issue. It authorized slavery and the Southern states felt that Northern moves to abolish slavery were unconstitutional. There were other solutions besides war but given the nature of human beings, it was what it was.

Do you know that Lincoln didn't invade the South to free the slaves or even to stop slavery?

There weren't any northern "moves to abolish slavery." The moves were to prevent its spread into the territories...

And, yes, we all know that part of our history, which contradicts your statement just above it that the north was moving to abolish slavery. They weren't, Lincoln made that crystal clear, before the war, before secession.

 

[eman623]

I'm glad you think someone who displays the Confederate flag is brave. It means your scared and I like you Confederate sympathizers scared.

I'm not a Confederate sympathizer, but I'm not surprised how that might confuse you. Intolerant people often can't understand tolerance in others and confuse it for sympathy.

I'm also not surprised in the least that you are pleased when people feel scared and intimidated for expressing their beliefs. That is another hallmark of the intolerant. The KKK used to terrorize blacks and make them feel scared too. You are carrying on that tradition very nicely. You are closer to the KKK in attitude and sentiment then the man in the OP could ever be.

 

[ecofarm]

There's no way Chewy was a slaver. Solo maybe.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Well, you do now. :mrgreen:

As noted several times before, the Constitution's 3/5s clause was an issue. It authorized slavery and the Southern states felt that Northern moves to abolish slavery were unconstitutional. There were other solutions besides war but given the nature of human beings, it was what it was.

Do you know that Lincoln didn't invade the South to free the slaves or even to stop slavery?

He did it to preserve the union, and he was willing to consider any peaceful option in order to preserve the union. Of course Lincoln was facing that hard decision because his predecessor, James Buchanan, failed to stop the secession of the Confederate states. When it comes to the issue of slavery, I consider myself in alignment with the views of congressmen Thaddeus Stevens and Senator Charles Sumner

 

[eman623]

Nah.... in Maine it is totally not a southern thing.

One of the flags I see here regularly is a Confederate Flag with a big middle finger in the middle of it.

As I said, I laugh.

They are sad sad people who feel the need to fly such a thing.

I assume the middle finger means F the Confederate flag? Or does it mean F the people who think the flag is racist?

Either way, a little vulgar, but still kind of amusing.

 

[ecofarm]

Do you know that Lincoln didn't invade the South to free the slaves or even to stop slavery?

Did you know 20 of 35 states had outlawed slavery? And Europe had outlawed it? And slavery was outlawed on the high seas and in new territory? And the Underground Railroad predated the war? And that Abolitionists were the majority?

Did you know a condemnation of slavery was in the first draft of the Declaration of Independence? Did you know Jefferson argued in court for a slave's freedom?


No. In your fantasy world, everyone was cool with slavery.

 

[Master Debator]

I'm not a Confederate sympathizer, but I'm not surprised how that might confuse you. Intolerant people often can't understand tolerance in others and confuse it for sympathy.

I'm also not surprised in the least that you are pleased when people feel scared and intimidated for expressing their beliefs. That is another hallmark of the intolerant. The KKK used to terrorize blacks and make them feel scared too. You are carrying on that tradition very nicely. You are closer to the KKK in attitude and sentiment then the man in the OP could ever be.

Wanna sing kumbaya now?

:lamo


I dont feel bad about hating racist slavers one bit or the fans of their idolatry. Nor do I apologize for taking pleasure in the growing need to retreat to the fringes of society. I love it.

 

[eman623]

OK, but it's a problem to me at least when the symbol I might choose to celebrate southern "heritage" is embraced by white supremacist dirtbags everywhere, and so I have to explain that I'm celebrating southern "heritage" but not the slavery and then Jim Crow that was an integral part of that heritage for 200 years, but some OTHER parts of our heritage not obvious from a flag from the Civil war, and that was also used, and has been for decades, by white supremacist dirtbags to celebrate EXACTLY that white supremacist "heritage"...

That's a Reductio ad Nazium fallacy. White Supremacists fly the Confederate flag so it must be racist. No matter that millions of non-White Supremacists also fly it for non-racist reasons.

And Nazis drive cars and drink beer therefore cars and beer must be Nazi symbols too.

Yes, right, same as me using the c-word. Or wearing a swastika to a Jewish center or to my Jewish friend's funeral who died over the holidays. If they're offended, **** em! It just means "peace" to ME and I'm all that matters!! :roll:

Hyperbole, whtatboutery and simple dishonesty. Pick something that you actually do and imagine someone else has a problem with it. Do you feel you need to change to please them? I doubt it.