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The Confederate Flag

TomFitz said:
My views are somewhat complex, owing to being raised by parents who were originally from the Deep South, and who grew up in a world where segregation and worse were normal. Still, they worked hard not to pass old prejudices on.

So, we were taught to accept the realities of the South (mainly because we saw a lot of it first hand), but to see it as part of America.

So, I have generally taken the Confederate flag as part of our overall American heritage, warts and all. It will always be there. I have the same view on monuments.

What I don’t approve of was the way white supremacists and segretationists seized upon it as their symbol, beginning in the early 1960’s, and continuing to this day.

They are stealing the heritage of the Confederacy and twisting it to evil means.
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Well said, thanks.
 
Outlook said:
Are you also critical of the Japanese flag?
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No. After world war two japan saw the error of their ways and changed. Japan during the second world war is what happens when military people are making the decisions. They are no longer a militaristic society.
 
bongsaway said:
I was born and raised in a large northeastern city where I lived for thirty six years. I now live in florida for over thirty years. Yesterday at a pizza place I spoke to a man with confederate flags on his truck. I asked him what does the confederate flag mean to him? He told me he was born in alabama and it was his heritage, not a racist thing like most people think. He said he was proud of his southern heritage. Unless I'm mistaken birmingham was once called bombingham for a reason and it wasn't for southern hospitality. I wondered to myself how he could he be proud of his heritage when his heritage was lynching and blowing up black folks?

When you see someone flying or displaying a confederate flag, what thoughts come to your mind?
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America was divided by the civil war into two camps of equally respectable Americans, many who disagreed with one another over things like racial equality, religion, morals, states rights, freedom and the like. The Confederate flag symbolized the Southern states of the Confederacy, not a single issue of race, religion, politics or government philosophy, although all played a part.

Leftist liberals have demonized the entire South in their condemnation of the Confederacy during the civil war. Most modern Americans don't still demonize Germans, Italians, Japanese, and other nations against whom we fought in battle. It does not make sense to drag those other modern nations in the dirt behind Americans who fought against them in previous wars.

Democrats need to stop bringing up racist divisions in the US as though everyone who does not share the values and policies held dear by democrats are "Goddamm American" racist holdovers from the civil war. Robert E. Lee was an honor graduate of West Point, a distinguished American and great general who had his reasons for joining the fight, just like others. It makes no sense to tear down a statue of him just because some young lefties today cannot get over their hatred for whites because of past slavery.
 
bongsaway said:
Hell no I'm not proud of a good portion of what america and americans have done. We have much to improve. Locking up our own citizens, overthrowing governments and installing our chosen leaders, false flag operations to get us into wars and the list goes on.

To our credit, we saved the world from fascism when we entered the second world war. We help other countries with money and goods. We give to people in need and we used to stand by our allies.

We have a lot to be proud about, we also have a lot to be ashamed about.
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Maybe one of these days a Canadian tourist will see an American flag on your truck and ask you what the flag means to you. For every positive event, I’m sure he can counter with a negative one.
 
Outlook said:
Maybe one of these days a Canadian tourist will see an American flag on your truck and ask you what the flag means to you. For every positive event, I’m sure he can counter with a negative one.
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Thanks for confirming what I was saying that we have a lot to be ashamed about. We certainly have enough negative events to pick from.
 
marke said:
America was divided by the civil war into two camps of equally respectable Americans, many who disagreed with one another over things like racial equality, religion, morals, states rights, freedom and the like. The Confederate flag symbolized the Southern states of the Confederacy, not a single issue of race, religion, politics or government philosophy, although all played a part.

Leftist liberals have demonized the entire South in their condemnation of the Confederacy during the civil war. Most modern Americans don't still demonize Germans, Italians, Japanese, and other nations against whom we fought in battle. It does not make sense to drag those other modern nations in the dirt behind Americans who fought against them in previous wars.

Democrats need to stop bringing up racist divisions in the US as though everyone who does not share the values and policies held dear by democrats are "Goddamm American" racist holdovers from the civil war. Robert E. Lee was an honor graduate of West Point, a distinguished American and great general who had his reasons for joining the fight, just like others. It makes no sense to tear down a statue of him just because some young lefties today cannot get over their hatred for whites because of past slavery.
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The vast majority of southerners did not own slaves.
Also during the civil war it was the southern democrats who were the slave owners that split from the union.
 
Acadia said:
I don't think Southern "pride" is synonymous with bigotry and racism. I think taking individual experiences is important.
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It is if they wrap that Southern "pride" in a Confederate flag. (And yeah, my son and his family live in Alabama, where their father was born and raised, so I do have considerable insight into the mindset of the area.)
 
bongsaway said:
I was born and raised in a large northeastern city where I lived for thirty six years. I now live in florida for over thirty years. Yesterday at a pizza place I spoke to a man with confederate flags on his truck. I asked him what does the confederate flag mean to him? He told me he was born in alabama and it was his heritage, not a racist thing like most people think. He said he was proud of his southern heritage. Unless I'm mistaken birmingham was once called bombingham for a reason and it wasn't for southern hospitality. I wondered to myself how he could he be proud of his heritage when his heritage was lynching and blowing up black folks?

When you see someone flying or displaying a confederate flag, what thoughts come to your mind?
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You believe every person (white person) in the South is proud of anti-black violence and anti-black violence is "the South's heritage"?
 
bongsaway said:
No. After world war two japan saw the error of their ways and changed. Japan during the second world war is what happens when military people are making the decisions. They are no longer a militaristic society.
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I think we were talking about a symbol which is the flag that killed thousands of Americans.
Why didn’t Japan change their flag?
 
bongsaway said:
I was born and raised in a large northeastern city where I lived for thirty six years. I now live in florida for over thirty years. Yesterday at a pizza place I spoke to a man with confederate flags on his truck. I asked him what does the confederate flag mean to him? He told me he was born in alabama and it was his heritage, not a racist thing like most people think. He said he was proud of his southern heritage. Unless I'm mistaken birmingham was once called bombingham for a reason and it wasn't for southern hospitality. I wondered to myself how he could he be proud of his heritage when his heritage was lynching and blowing up black folks?

When you see someone flying or displaying a confederate flag, what thoughts come to your mind?
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It's not a heritage to be proud of. The Confederacy got their ass kicked and lost in less than 4 years. A war the Confederacy would have won handedly if they had fought a smart, prolonged defensive strategy the entire war, instead of Lee's two idiotic invasions of the North.

In addition, the Confederacy fought for one of the worse causes in the history of warfare -- protecting the institution of slavery.

And most Southern states after 1865 were not that interested in displaying the Confederate flag, until the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s. Gee, I wonder why?
 
apdst said:
You believe every person (white person) in the South is proud of anti-black violence and anti-black violence is "the South's heritage"?
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No, I do not think that at all. It is however the heritage the south has chosen for itself. Even after the civil war we heard for generations, the south shall rise again like it is a foreign entity living in the united states of america. That to me appears to be a self-imposed segregation from the rest of the country, no?
 
Outlook said:
I think we were talking about a symbol which is the flag that killed thousands of Americans.
Why didn’t Japan change their flag?
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Why? Changing a flag does not change the way people think or feel. The japanese unless I'm mistaken aren't marching in the streets of america carrying torches and chanting jews will not replace us are they? I could have swore they were americans wearing those nazi symbols and chanting.
 
Outlook said:
Are you also critical of the Japanese flag?
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Most Japanese people I know don't try to whitewash the atrocity of things like Pearl Harbor. Can't say the same about those who fly the Stars and Bars.

Also, it can be said that the nation of Japan, after thier ass whipping, changed and became part of the new civilized world they were forced into. The Confederacy went to its grave fighting for oppression.
 
apdst said:
You believe every person (white person) in the South is proud of anti-black violence and anti-black violence is "the South's heritage"?
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Well, you kinda asked two different things here inadvertently.

No, I don't think every white person in the South is proud of anti black violence.

Yes, I think that the Confederate flag symbolizes anti black sentiment and anyone who is willing to fly that flag is inviting that association upon themselves.
 
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science."

Alexander H. Stephens
Vice President of the Confederate States

U.S. House of Representatives from Georgia's 8th district
U.S. House of Representatives from Georgia's 7th district
U.S. House of Representatives from Georgia's At-large district
Member of the Georgia Senate
Member of the Georgia House of Representatives
Alma mater: University of Georgia (BA)
 
bongsaway said:
I was born and raised in a large northeastern city where I lived for thirty six years. I now live in florida for over thirty years. Yesterday at a pizza place I spoke to a man with confederate flags on his truck. I asked him what does the confederate flag mean to him? He told me he was born in alabama and it was his heritage, not a racist thing like most people think. He said he was proud of his southern heritage. Unless I'm mistaken birmingham was once called bombingham for a reason and it wasn't for southern hospitality. I wondered to myself how he could he be proud of his heritage when his heritage was lynching and blowing up black folks?

When you see someone flying or displaying a confederate flag, what thoughts come to your mind?
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Starting a war to own black people.
 
The war of southern aggression was fought for the right own human flesh.
 
bongsaway said:
I was born and raised in a large northeastern city where I lived for thirty six years. I now live in florida for over thirty years. Yesterday at a pizza place I spoke to a man with confederate flags on his truck. I asked him what does the confederate flag mean to him? He told me he was born in alabama and it was his heritage, not a racist thing like most people think. He said he was proud of his southern heritage. Unless I'm mistaken birmingham was once called bombingham for a reason and it wasn't for southern hospitality. I wondered to myself how he could he be proud of his heritage when his heritage was lynching and blowing up black folks?

When you see someone flying or displaying a confederate flag, what thoughts come to your mind?
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Was he a democrat? Lynching was a Dem/KKK thing after the Civil War.
 
Outlook said:
The vast majority of southerners did not own slaves.
Also during the civil war it was the southern democrats who were the slave owners that split from the union.
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southern conservative democrats

northern democrats supported Lincoln
 
You southern conservatives lost the Civil War.
 
bongsaway said:
No, I do not think that at all. It is however the heritage the south has chosen for itself. Even after the civil war we heard for generations, the south shall rise again like it is a foreign entity living in the united states of america. That to me appears to be a self-imposed segregation from the rest of the country, no?
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No, the South rise again means the South will rise from the ashes of the Civil War to be a productives part of of The United States, which it has. The sons of those Confederate soldiers have made some of the most important contributions to this country. You're unable to see through own bigotry to understand that.
 
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