the Anti-GOP Backlash that wasn't.

[cpwill]

This is hilarious. Apparently Democrats never really picked up on the fact that the Tea Party and the anti-Obamacare protesters Really Were Grassroots People Pissed Off at their Idiocy. Soooo... they just assumed that if they scared enough seniors with false advertising and added a mix of professional agitators from Move.On and Organize Now that they could recreate the summer of '09, when they all went home for recess and got hammered by an infuriated public.

Instead, the public reaction to the protesters include yelling for them to shut up, sit down, and let the man talk and derisive laughter.

so now you have a small group of protesters, desperately rushing around trying to hit every townhall (because if they don't show up, no one will protest), changing clothes on the way so that they will look different and generally proving themselves to be utterly impotent in their attempts to spark some kind of revolt.

Citizens Action of Wisconsin and the Milwaukee Labor Council were even dumb enough to hire a traveling band of seniors to follow Paul Ryan’s every move, apparently not realizing that all they are doing is setting Ryan up perfectly to explain that his plan doesn't effect anyone over the age of 55, while the Presidents' plan does.


and so, in the face of all the demagoguery, the screaming, and the lies... it turns out that the American people are alot more mature and informed than Democrats had planned on, and the general response is more like this guy:

Dennis Carmichael, a Seymour City Council member, said he’d be willing to pay more for health care.

‘I don’t want to pay more. But will I sacrifice so that my kids can still have the same opportunities with some of the social service programs like Social Security? Absolutely,’ Carmichael said.

...and polling seems to indicate that a plurality of every age group of Americans over the age of 30 supports the Ryan plan over the Obama one, and think that Republicans would do a better job curbing the federal budget.



Americaar

 

[Sgt Meowenstein]

This is hilarious. Apparently, some righties are so delusional that they think a majority of Americans support the dismantling of Medicare, the hobbling of Medicaid and giving even more tax cuts to the rich. Some righties should stop listening to Limbaugh and watching Faux Ooze. Then maybe those righties can join reality.

 

[Centrehalf]

This is hilarious. Apparently, some righties are so delusional that they think a majority of Americans support the dismantling of Medicare, the hobbling of Medicaid and giving even more tax cuts to the rich. Some righties should stop listening to Limbaugh and watching Faux Ooze. Then maybe those righties can join reality.

Talking points, you gotta love 'em. Without them some people wouldn't have anything to say at all. Watch The Ed Show much?

 

[Bassman]

This is hilarious. Apparently, some righties are so delusional that they think a majority of Americans support the dismantling of Medicare, the hobbling of Medicaid and giving even more tax cuts to the rich. Some righties should stop listening to Limbaugh and watching Faux Ooze. Then maybe those righties can join reality.

You mean become Liberal sheep like you?? Bahhhh Bahhhh!

 

[cpwill]

.....actually that poll was by Gallop.

and both Obama and the Ryan plans reduce Medicare Expenditures. so merely "opposing cutting medicare" really gets' you nowhere.

 

[Misbelief]

57% of Tea partiers approve of bushes term.


It's main focus is fiscal responsibility....bush was a fiscally irresponsible president.....over half approve of his term.


The only thing this points to is that the majority of Tea Partiers motives are elsewhere and fiscal responsibility is not their true platform.

 

[CriticalThought]

...and polling seems to indicate that a plurality of every age group of Americans over the age of 30 supports the Ryan plan over the Obama one, and think that Republicans would do a better job curbing the federal budget.

So what? The poll indicates it is an even split. Given that it is the youngest people who are going to end up paying for it, I tend to value their input more.

 

[cpwill]

So what? The poll indicates it is an even split. Given that it is the youngest people who are going to end up paying for it, I tend to value their input more.

see, but given that it is the older people who are going to be voting for it, i would think their input will end up carrying more weight.

as for the young people - as a rule we are uninformed and at the most liberal point in our lives. as people age, mature, get married, and have kids, they tend to become more conservative.

so ooh wow, college campuses don't like the Ryan plan. :roll: i'll take the seniors over them any day.

 

[Sgt Meowenstein]

Talking points, you gotta love 'em. Without them some people wouldn't have anything to say at all. Watch The Ed Show much?

Show me where a majority of Americans support the privatization of Medicare, the hobbling of Medicaid and more tax cuts for the rich. Until then, you're just babbling nonsense.

 

[Sgt Meowenstein]

You mean become Liberal sheep like you?? Bahhhh Bahhhh!

BAA BAA says the fright-wing sheep. Nothing to back up your side. Just BAA BAA

 

[Sgt Meowenstein]

A year is an eternity in politics. Wait until this summer is over. Any seniors that don't yet get it, will by the time they pull that lever in 2012. If you really believe that a majority of Americans support the privatization of Medicare, you are some truly delusional people. And anyway, I don't know what you're boasting about. Ryan's budget won't make it through the Senate. And even if it miraculously did, Obama would veto it. Have fun in fantasy land. That's the only place where Ryan's budget becomes law.

 

[CriticalThought]

see, but given that it is the older people who are going to be voting for it, i would think their input will end up carrying more weight.

That is yet to be seen. No one expected the younger people to show up in the last election and we can see the result. A couple years of Republican antics may be all that is needed to motivate young voters to once again storm the polls.

as for the young people - as a rule we are uninformed and at the most liberal point in our lives. as people age, mature, get married, and have kids, they tend to become more conservative.

ROFL. Young people do not become more conservative, society in general becomes more liberal and the labels change with it. A conservative individual today is several times more liberal than a conservative 20 years ago. A conservative 20 years ago was several times more liberal than a conservative 40 years back. A young liberal person today will likely become a conservative when they get older, but not because their views change, but rather because the next generation of younger people will be even more liberal than they are.

 

[lpast]

Older people tend to move slower and thats also with political views. Most seniors are oblivious to whats in the Ryan or the Obama plan. I personally am for neither of them. Keep in mind many of the baby boomers they are polling are "RICH" of course they want ryans plan they make out like bandits without masks.
I try to stay pretty much on top of Political happenings and whats going on and I dont know exactly what the impact on medicare ryans plan will have. I dont have a need to research it yet because ryans plan as it is will go nowhere as another poster pointed out.
Heres what I do know, the gop excluded most seniors past 55 from their plan because they know it goes no where without the baby boomers and they go nowhere without babyboomers and they are giving many of them a huge tax cut along with corporations.
Who is really taking the beating here ? every young person that has a family or single and is not at the top of the tax bracket gets brutalized in ryans plan. The poorest gets hammered. The rich make out like bandits.

It is impossible for alot of america to do what conservatives want them to do and that is be self sufficient so they can get more tax cuts. There are many americans who do not and will not ever make enough to be self sufficient. I know I keep saying this but walmart is the biggest employer.
Im still waiting for CP will to tell me how the employees of the countries largest employer can buy all of the necessities they need today, feed their kids if they have any and pay their own healthcare and their families and save for their retirement and for health benefits till they die so they will be self sufficient on WALMART PAY. If the rich dont pay now, they will pay more later not
everyone can be rich and not everyone will EVER be rich there will always be poor.

 

[Centrehalf]

@CT, I completely agree that political labels change with time. I'm just curious how you're defining Liberal and Conservative, because if the meaning of the words are changing with time then it's very difficult to make a statement about long-term trends using those words. For example, Liberal in the 1950's meant something very different then it does today, and I think a good case can be made that a Liberal today is far more totalitarian than a 1950's Liberal. I don't think they can even be compared. Conservatism has been turned on it's head, today it primarily means social conservative and this is just my opinion, but I see them as more regressive than anything else.

 

[cpwill]

A year is an eternity in politics. Wait until this summer is over. Any seniors that don't yet get it, will by the time they pull that lever in 2012.

that is certainly true. they will be aware, for example, that Obama's plan would cut their Medicare benefits, and Ryan's plan doesn't effect anyone over the age of 54.

 

[cpwill]

That is yet to be seen. No one expected the younger people to show up in the last election and we can see the result.

what? i remember endless stories ad nauseum for months on how the youth and racial minorities were more mobilized, more excited, and going to be coming out in larger numbers than ever before.....


but the excited college kids of 2008 are the less thrilled un or underemployed of today. the excitement and romance of the Obama Presidency and the First Black President have worn dull after the beatings of reality. I'm thinking anyone who thinks that an opinion among the 18-19 crowd will overweigh an opinion among the 65+ crowd in an election is either blowing or sucking on smoke.

A couple years of Republican antics may be all that is needed to motivate young voters to once again storm the polls.

Democrats are currently getting called out by politifact of all places as blatant liars while the union-base engages in a nation-wide campaign of trying to target shoppers for their evil purchasing of products built by companies that supported Walker. What Republican antics?

ROFL. Young people do not become more conservative

um. actually they do. and this current rising generation is more conservative than their parents.

society in general becomes more liberal and the labels change with it. A conservative individual today is several times more liberal than a conservative 20 years ago

what? are you aware at all of the history of the conservative movement over the past 50 years? The Right has gotten more conservative over the past few decades.

 

[Nonplussed]

BAA BAA says the fright-wing sheep. Nothing to back up your side. Just BAA BAA

Hey!!! I saw that episode of Bill Maher's show, too!

 

[shintao]

This is hilarious. Apparently Democrats never really picked up on the fact that the Tea Party and the anti-Obamacare protesters Really Were Grassroots People Pissed Off at their Idiocy. Soooo... they just assumed that if they scared enough seniors with false advertising and added a mix of professional agitators from Move.On and Organize Now that they could recreate the summer of '09, when they all went home for recess and got hammered by an infuriated public.

Instead, the public reaction to the protesters include yelling for them to shut up, sit down, and let the man talk and derisive laughter.

so now you have a small group of protesters, desperately rushing around trying to hit every townhall (because if they don't show up, no one will protest), changing clothes on the way so that they will look different and generally proving themselves to be utterly impotent in their attempts to spark some kind of revolt.

Citizens Action of Wisconsin and the Milwaukee Labor Council were even dumb enough to hire a traveling band of seniors to follow Paul Ryan’s every move, apparently not realizing that all they are doing is setting Ryan up perfectly to explain that his plan doesn't effect anyone over the age of 55, while the Presidents' plan does.


and so, in the face of all the demagoguery, the screaming, and the lies... it turns out that the American people are alot more mature and informed than Democrats had planned on, and the general response is more like this guy:



...and polling seems to indicate that a plurality of every age group of Americans over the age of 30 supports the Ryan plan over the Obama one, and think that Republicans would do a better job curbing the federal budget.



Americaar

Oh, Dear!! www.misinformation.com I assume?


1) to explain that his plan doesn't effect anyone over the age of 55

By 2033, the Ryan plan fails to cover anyone between the ages of 65 and 67. While the Ryan plan would cover less than 30 percent of the cost of a 67-year-old’s private health insurance, it would cover none of that of the 65-year-old.

2) polling seems to indicate that a plurality of every age group of Americans over the age of 30 supports the Ryan plan over the Obama one,

Just imagine, in this day in age of information, you can still lie to the majority and have them believe it!!

CBO's "projections imply that the Ryan plan would add more than $30 trillion to the cost of providing Medicare equivalent policies over the program's 75-year planning period," the report states.


3) and think that Republicans would do a better job curbing the federal budget.

Seniors would be required to pay $39 trillion more under the Ryan plan – more than seven times the Social Security shortfall.

For every dollar of savings to the government under the Ryan plan, nearly seven dollars is wasted due to the inefficiency of private insurance relative to the traditional health care system.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/ryan-waste-2011-04.pdf

 

[cpwill]

Oh, Dear!! www.misinformation.com I assume?

funny, i followed your link and it didn't demonstrate the sourcing for that post at all

to explain that his plan doesn't effect anyone over the age of 55

By 2033, the Ryan plan fails to cover anyone between the ages of 65 and 67

yes, IE, it doesn't effect anyone 55 or over. time moves forward, you know

While the Ryan plan would cover less than 30 percent of the cost of a 67-year-old’s private health insurance

actually no one can give a number like that for a couple of reasons; 1. nobody has any idea what's going to happen to the cost of healthcare and health insurance in the meantime. and 2. the Ryan plan means-tests medicare to support the poor and let the rich support themselves.

polling seems to indicate that a plurality of every age group of Americans over the age of 30 supports the Ryan plan over the Obama one,

Just imagine, in this day in age of information, you can still lie to the majority and have them believe it!!

that's what Gallop and USA TODAY said. are you calling them liars?

CBO's "projections imply that the Ryan plan would add more than $30 trillion to the cost of providing Medicare equivalent policies over the program's 75-year planning period," the report states.

:lamo: actually it doesn't. but that estimate (which has no rational connection to the CBO report, which certainly says nothing of the kind) certainly is based on some fairly ridiculous assumptions. but thanks for playing.

think that Republicans would do a better job curbing the federal budget.

that they do.

 

[Sgt Meowenstein]

that is certainly true. they will be aware, for example, that Obama's plan would cut their Medicare benefits, and Ryan's plan doesn't effect anyone over the age of 54.

Then they'll also be aware that, under Ryan's plan, anyone currently under 55 won't have Medicare when they're eligible, because it will become non-existent. If you think that's going to hold up, all I can do is laugh. ANd what about other parts of the plan? Like, tax cuts for example. A majority of Americans clearly support raising taxes on the rich. Yet Ryan's plan cuts their taxes. Keep dreaming if you think Ryan's plan will ever become law. Senate won't pass it. Obama won't sign it. Dream on....

 

[Wiseone]

All I see in politics is a whole lot of people with extra energy and time which they haven't found a more productive channel for. People get angry for the sake of getting angry

 

[CriticalThought]

what? are you aware at all of the history of the conservative movement over the past 50 years? The Right has gotten more conservative over the past few decades.

Not at all. If that were the case then women would not be part of the GOP and outlawing sodomy would be one of the top priorties of conservatives.

 

[cpwill]

:lamo so no, you don't have any idea what you are talking about :lol:


the modern conservative movement began as a backlash movement in the 1950's, led by few figures as much as William F Buckley. (His sister, Patricia, was an editor at his magazine), National Review , which he used to bring together what has become the "three legged stool" of the modern conservative movement. Anti-Sodomy and No Girls Allowed, suffice to say, weren't exactly central parts of the platform.