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Texas church massacre: Man hailed a hero for chasing gunman after killings

I do, all the time. I did so in the other thread on this topic.

You are in the overwhelming minority. And to be fair...the idiots in my party don't bother to address it and only spend time on gun control and the only proposed solution is armed guards. :eye roll:
 
I never claimed to be God, but I know his Word, and there's nothing presumptuous about that.

Here's example #2 for you: "You shall know them by their fruits (works)." Jesus, Matthew 7:15-16.

Now, what kind of fruits (works) did the Texas Church shooter have? He was jailed for assaulting his wife and child and kicked out of the military. He sent hateful messages to his Mother-in-Law. And he killed 26 people, including children, and wounded some 20+ more. So, were those 'good' fruits or rotten fruits? And that's why your "no true Scotsman" argument fails. And there's even more than that.

So Like I said, you haven't done your due diligence and adequately studied this issue, or most others, when you go up against the Bible and Christianity.

So there we have it. No one who commits sins is a "real" Christian. Got it.

All have sinned and fall short, but you get to decide who falls off the pew and can't climb back.

If it turns out he didn't off himself, the possibility will remain that he asked for forgiveness and promised to repent with his last breath. Then what???
 
Mental health is an important issue but the debate never addresses the taboo issue: should mental illness be a factor that determines wether a person is competent enough to access a gun.

You have to correctly define mental illness. Anxiety is a mental illness. Does that make you a danger to others?
 
A culture where problem are resolved though force. The glorification of violence through a wide number of medias. A lot of emotionally immature people who can't handle being told that they can't have something, they can't handle when they realize that they really aren't all that special and a tolerance for behavior that most places would find intolerable. I can go on like this all day, but none of it will matter on bit to you. You have already decided that it's guns that are the problem and you won't even consider any other conclusion. You'll ignore the real problems for no other reason than you've got an axe to grind and no one going to tell you any different.

Add to hat the language that extends favor only to certain demographics and suggests a total lack of worth of others who fall outside a protected class or the right kind of ideology. And then we have the gratuitous violence along with expressed hated and disrespect that is more typical than not in modern day movies, television, music, and literature even while the anti-hero is exalted. Include the really outrageously rude, disrespectful, and hateful manner of communicating on social media, message boards, etc. See pieces of our culture destroyed day by day by those who judge the past by present values and relegating most of our history into something hateful and despicable. Make it known that religion is evil and people of faith are delusional and that the being they call God is unwelcome in the schools or in public in general. And then add a total disrespect for life by assigning sub human and disposable status to the unborn.

With all that encouragement along with examples set for him, it is no wonder the mentally unstable or deranged or excessively impressionable is pushed over the edge into committing acts of unspeakable violence.
 
Mental health is an important issue but the debate never addresses the taboo issue: should mental illness be a factor that determines wether a person is competent enough to access a gun.

It is already checked in most or all states that require background checks. But the standards vary.

It's that 'competency' and how it relates to the likelihood of violence that requires alot more research IMO.
 
So there we have it. No one who commits sins is a "real" Christian. Got it.

No, you don't have it. First, study the subject of being "Born Again." Then study Sanctification, including Progressive Sanctification. Then get back to me.
 
I'm not going to act like that I know what the motives were nor do I claim to know what they were. However I do have a theory or 2 as to what they were. I'll give the facts first (at least what was said). From the sound of it, the guy was an oddball (for a lack of a better term) when he was a teen. According to people that knew him, the guy preached (their word, not mine) atheism. They said he was always a bit off, but nothing too out of the ordinary (at least based on what we heard so far). He joined up with military (can't remember if it's either Navy or Air Force), and served 4 years. The guy was dishonorably discharged and was court marshaled after allegations came out that he was beating his wife and kid. Supposedly, the family he was married to attended that church and he was a Vacation Bible School aid, but it's weird because he was an atheist, supposedly (maybe a convert, but nothing has been confirmed yet on that). Then the day of the shooting happens, and we already know what happened from there, other than if he shot himself or bled out after the guy who shot him.

A few things: What was an atheist working at a church to begin with? Again, maybe he was a convert or was converting, but typically atheists don't attend church, let alone work at them, unless if they were giving their life to Christ. I'm wondering if maybe he was a disgruntled atheist and wanted to shoot Christians because he believed they're evil, mean, bigoted, or whatever else was negative he believed about us. The other thing I'm wondering about was maybe he wanted to kill his own family members. Another theory is it was driven because of political reasons. The other day, Rand Paul's neighbor attacked, breaking a few ribs, and I believe was confirmed that he did what he did because he didn't like Paul's politics. Also, we have the shooting at the baseball field several months ago with the guy that wanted to kill Republicans. And there was a stabbing on a train that was also politically motivated, by a Crazy Bernie guy. Don't forget Antifa. Same deal there, except no deaths (yet) but still commit violence against those they disagree with. All of these people that law enforcement has looked into and confirmed were all Democrats, or at least voted for Democrat. I'm wondering if we have the same case here, and, typically, people that attend church are conservative. The shooter might have been a Leftist, and made the decision on that alone to kill those people in church.

The bottom line is this was an act of terrorism. Many on the Left are already calling for gun control, but there will be one of 2 ways the media will try to spin this and make Christians look bad: First, we'd find out the guy did indeed convert and the media will try to show that that's how Christians are (violent). Or the second, the guy was an atheist and the Christians at this church treated him unfairly, were mean to him, made fun of him, and said he was going to Hell because atheists can never be forgiven. This is what the media will want you to believe. Either way, Christians will be made into the bad guys in the story because the media is very anti-faith and anti-religion (unless it's Islam, the "religion of peace"). Other than that, the motives will probably be revealed much faster than the Vegas shooter's (which is yet to even be revealed) because I couldn't imagine Texas law enforcement screwing around on a case like this (when lives are involved). But, you never know if they'll drop the ball on this, and I hope they don't.
 
No, you don't have it. First, study the subject of being "Born Again." Then study Sanctification, including Progressive Sanctification. Then get back to me.

No. You get back when you are really fit to judge. You can have your opinion, but the bible gives you no authority to judge others outside of your opinion.
 
I know that. My point is that it would be very easy for me to:

a. Buy it from a private party in Missouri.

b. Get a friend to buy it for me.

State level gun control is pointless for that reason. When you have more guns in circulation than people, then its pretty hard to police gun sales at a state level when no one checks your vehicle when you drive across state lines. Moreover, the government doesn't even know what most people have. Hell we got a house full of guns down at our family home place in Arkansas. I doubt the government knows about any of them.

For example, up until a few years ago, Missouri had Sunday liquor sales while Kansas didn't. If I wanted a 6 pack on a Sunday, I would drive the 2 miles over the state line to get it. Technically, that wasn't legal, but everyone did it anyway.

Both you and the private party would be committing a crime by doing so. As for the liquor thing its only illegal for you not the seller, so they have no problem with selling it to you big difference finding someone to commit a felony to sell you a gun.
 
While no one can prove that more guns in the hands of honest citizens is what is driving the gun-related crime rates down, it's certainly obvious that it's not driving it up.
That's not obvious.
It could be driving it up by 5% every year, but if other factors drive it down by 10%, you still get net 5% decrease in gun crime rate, for example. You have to control for other variables to tease that out, but that's difficult at best.

If statistics on these types of sociological issues were obvious, well, we'd be in much better shape that's for sure. It's a complex, convoluted mess.
 
It is already checked in most or all states that require background checks. But the standards vary.

It's that 'competency' and how it relates to the likelihood of violence that requires alot more research IMO.

What about incidents of domestic abuse?
 
What about incidents of domestic abuse?

Some states have legislation re: that but I have issues with them dispensing with due process in much or most cases.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm saying it's not necessarily constructed properly.
 
Both you and the private party would be committing a crime by doing so. As for the liquor thing its only illegal for you not the seller, so they have no problem with selling it to you big difference finding someone to commit a felony to sell you a gun.

But you know as well as I do that when you buy a gun from a private party, its a pretty casual purchase. So while it would technically be a crime, no one really thinks about it.
 
is it illegal? I do frequent work in Oregon and occasionally my job takes me to British Columbia, Washington liquor taxes are insane so I'll stock up duty free at the border or in Portland Oregon when I'm coming home from there.

Purchasing alcohol and transporting it across state lines is technically illegal.
 
other than McVeigh, how many fertilizer bombs were used for mass destruction prior to that incident. Its not like Fertilizer bombs were killing people left and right until after the Murrow building incident

Wasn't the first World Trade Center bombing a fertilizer bomb?
 
You haven't studied that subject either, have you?

https://righterreport.com/2007/08/19/the-bible-is-it-wrong-to-judge/

By the way, the church shooter identified himself as an atheist. And you want to try to make him out to be a Christian???

We've been over the 'righterreport' a few times. It's not a legitimate source for facts. It's a collection of links that agree with the views of the person who runs it.

Look, who is or isn't a christian is not really the thread topic. I'm not arguing that the psycho was a christian. I'm arguing that you can't make that judgement.

By your rules, are these Christians?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(United_States)

Is this woman - yet???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Davis

They think so, but you can have the final word on it. I guess.:2razz:
 
We've been over the 'righterreport' a few times. It's not a legitimate source for facts. It's a collection of links that agree with the views of the person who runs it.

You're not qualified to make that determination because you haven't studied the Bible sufficiently to know if it's legitimate or not.

Look, who is or isn't a christian is not really the thread topic. I'm not arguing that the psycho was a christian. I'm arguing that you can't make that judgement.

Then why did Jesus say, "You shall know them by their fruits"?
 
Purchasing alcohol and transporting it across state lines is technically illegal.

So when I declare liquor purchases in Canada why aren't customs officers arresting me?
 
......................... Mabe the left wants a reduction in the appalling death toll di=ue to the free availability of killing machines. Even crazy people have a right to one in the USA.


Or maybe the Left wants to disarm us because they think without guns it will weaken our voices and our ability to stand up/defend ourselves.
 
We've been over the 'righterreport' a few times. It's not a legitimate source for facts. It's a collection of links that agree with the views of the person who runs it.

......................................


Sort of like CNN and MSNBC?


Depending on which side of the isle you're on, you could basically make your same argument for any news outlet out there.
 
Or the US could have sensible gun control and this incident may not have happened at all. Gun control isn't a violation of the 2nd amendment. You know the whole well regulated militia thing.

Yeah, the MILITIA is well regulated, not the right to bear arms.

I swear some people need to take english classes.
 
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