Terror truck drives into Berlin Chrstmas market

[Auvergnat]

People thought there were too many Jews to try and wipe them out.

Not at all.

Our situation results from a rapid demographic shift, but there was no such shift in Germany in 1933. On the other hand, the number of Jews had decreased, with many of Jews fleeing to France after 1871 and the birth of Germany.

What happened in Germany was typical of what usually happens in new and weak countries, when national identities are still fragile and in competition with other identities. It is not uncommon in such situations to see identity conflicts derail, as it will once again happen with the ongoing attempt to create an European nation against existing nations.


The number of Jews in Germany in 1933 was less than 4% and decreasing. The number of Muslims in France is now at 8-11% (1-3% in the USA), while it was 1% in 1950. Their number double about every 30 years.

Finally the National Front simply proposes to slow down immigration and is more moderate than your republican party. A lot more moderate than Trump. They are not the problem. The rise of Islam is.


Either you understand nothing about the current situation (possible since you are not European), either you hate us and want to see Islam ravage us, either you are a Muslim trying to use victimization as a way to impose yourself, as Muslims often do. I saw many kids and activists accuse people of racism or Islamophobia to get away with their intolerable behaviors.

 

[Tigerace117]

Not at all.

Our situation results from a rapid demographic shift, but there was no such shift in Germany in 1933. On the other hand, the number of Jews had decreased, with many of Jews fleeing to France after 1871 and the birth of Germany.

What happened in Germany was typical of what usually happens in new and weak countries, when national identities are still fragile and in competition with other identities. It is not uncommon in such situations to see identity conflicts derail, as it will once again happen with the ongoing attempt to create an European nation against existing nations.


The number of Jews in Germany in 1933 was less than 4% and decreasing. The number of Muslims in France is now at 8-11% (1-3% in the USA), while it was 1% in 1950. Their number double about every 30 years.

Finally the National Front simply proposes to slow down immigration and is more moderate than your republican party. A lot more moderate than Trump. They are not the problem. The rise of Islam is.


Either you understand nothing about the current situation (possible since you are not European), either you hate us and want to see Islam ravage us, either you are a Muslim trying to use victimization as a way to impose yourself, as Muslims often do. I saw many kids and activists accuse people of racism or Islamophobia to get away with their intolerable behaviors.

Actually, yeah, they did. That's exactly why people didn't believe the Germans were running the death camps at first--- they couldn't believe they would murder so many innocents. Then they captured the camps when they advanced deeper into Germany and its occupied lands, and well, found out.

Germany had plenty of self confidence. That was one thing they never lacked. What they did have, though, was an easily targetable minority-- the Jews--- who the Germans thought had "stabbed them in the back". Just like your rhetoric about how Muslims are trying to "take over", they thought the "Judeo Bolsheviks" were trying to take over Germany. And just like them, you are dead wrong.

Gee, cause what politicians say can always be trusted, right? Right now the far right wants to get into power. They'll say whatever they think will get them votes. Once they are in power, out comes the knives.

I hate the far right scumbags who are trying to use fear to crawl back into power. And apparently plenty of Europeans are dumb enough to buy into fascism with a bow.

And of course by "intolerable" you mean "having the unmitigated gall to exist and be in France".

 

[blackjack50]

Let's be realistic. If this is a terror attack by Muslim extremists, it is yet one more on the pile. If it happens in your nation, you cannot just bury your head in the sand and expect it to go away. There is a real problem here. A real culture clash between Middle East and west. The question is why.


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[truthatallcost]

Let's not wait for law enforcement to do their jobs and actually investigate whether this was an attack. Let's simply lynch the accused .

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Let's lynch your straw man instead

Correctly identifying the suspect and his motives really drives you lefties up the wall, doesn't it?

 

[Chagos]

Let's lynch your straw man instead

Correctly identifying the suspect and his motives really drives you lefties up the wall, doesn't it?

Well, let's hope that happens before too long. Because if you had been paying any attention you'd have developed some awareness that so far that hasn't happened.

 

[truthatallcost]

Well, let's hope that happens before too long. Because if you had been paying any attention you'd have developed some awareness that so far that hasn't happened.

I haven't scanned the headlines this morning, thanks for the heads up. Wow, German police are once again appearing to look god awful here. What a wonderful Christmas gift to give to the German people, an armed psychopathic terrorist on the loose :roll:

 

[Chagos]

German police are saying that they're not sure they got the right suspect and the terrorist could still be out there.

What's more, in Germany (and not just there) an apprehended suspect has to be presented to the judge within a specified time to be detained further. The judge needs to make out an arrest order for detainment and the prosecutor's office applying for it has to make a plausible case.

The specified time limit is near expiry but, more importantly, the federal prosecutor has made no application anyway.

In fact the suspect in question has been released on grounds of there being nothing of pertinence usable against him to make a case.

As such the status of information of this minute is that there is no information. Not on whether an armed perp is still out there or not, whether there's more than one or not, nor what motive drove the filthy deed.

In short, the police appear to be totally in the dark.

 

[Chagos]

I haven't scanned the headlines this morning, thanks for the heads up. Wow, German police are once again appearing to look god awful here. What a wonderful Christmas gift to give to the German people, an armed psychopathic terrorist on the loose :roll:

And you know this how?

Considering the amount of ignorance you have shown here so far while jumping into the manure full force and with both feet with nothing but speculation to offer, forgive me if I disbelieve you even if you claim that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow. And if I tend to advise others to treat your contributions with equal disdain.

Maybe you should satisfy yourself with searching for faked youtube videos.

Again!

But kindly don't post anything of that sort in a thread that I started.

Thank you.

 

[Apocalypse]

What's more, in Germany (and not just there) an apprehended suspect has to be presented to the judge within a specified time to be detained further. The judge needs to make out an arrest order for detainment and the prosecutor's office applying for it has to make a plausible case.

The specified time limit is near expiry but, more importantly, the federal prosecutor has made no application anyway.

In fact the suspect in question has been released on grounds of there being nothing of pertinence usable against him to make a case.

As such the status of information of this minute is that there is no information. Not on whether an armed perp is still out there or not, whether there's more than one or not, nor what motive drove the filthy deed.

In short, the police appear to be totally in the dark.

It is clear that the German police are not ready to be dealing with such cases, we've seen so in the case of the mall shooting from several months ago where there was a lot of confusion going on, but that is simply absurd.

 

[truthatallcost]

And you know this how?

Considering the amount of ignorance you have shown here so far while jumping into the manure full force and with both feet with nothing but speculation to offer, forgive me if I disbelieve you even if you claim that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow. And if I tend to advise others to treat your contributions with equal disdain.

Maybe you should satisfy yourself with searching for faked youtube videos.

Again!

But kindly don't post anything of that sort in a thread that I started.

Thank you.

German Police Release Suspect, with armed Terrorist 'still at large'
Berlin attack live: German police release suspect, with armed terrorist 'still at large' ? latest updates | The Independent

 

[Chagos]

It is clear that the German police are not ready to be dealing with such cases, we've seen so in the case of the mall shooting from several months ago where there was a lot of confusion going on, but that is simply absurd.

Well, word has it that a civil minded citizen saw the suspect fleeing the scene (or let's say that's what he thought he saw), pursued him thru the Tiergarten while calling the police on his cell, kept in contact during the rest of the pursuit and directed forces to the Siegessäule (the victory pillar) where they apprehended the suspect.

Had I been in the police's shoes, I'd have done the same thing.

As for the mall shooting in Munich, one need see that the confusion there arose primarily from such idiots as we see on here in part, crapping the net and all sorts of social media with any imaginable stupidity of false information, born in part from hysteria and in part from sheer sensationalism.

Causing an unnecessary abundance of police forces to be deployed for dealing with numerous cases of mass panic all over the city, many of those incidences actually resulting in injury to those citizens so misinformed.

The Berlin police has said from the outset that investigations are far from conclusion but nobody wanted to hear that.

This is the age we live in, if our desire for instant gratification (here of inquisitiveness as well as an "all clear" setting our minds to rest), we make things up ourself.

The "we" being figurative and not necessarily including everybody.

 

[matchlight]

European governments aren't going to stand by and let Neo Nazis rampage at will. And while people like you are likely rubbing your hands in glee at the prospect of mobs roaming the streets looking for Muslims to string up, the reality is that that sorr of thing won't end well for your buddies.

I'm not surprised to see that you feel the need to turn to lame attempts to insult me, instead of debating the issue. As a total stranger on an internet site, you have not the faintest idea what "people like" me are or who my "buddies" are, let alone whether I am rubbing my hands in glee at the prospect of mob violence against Muslims. I think it is clear, though, to most people who have read your posts, that you are anxious to leap to the defense of Islamists whenever anyone criticizes them. That tendency makes me wonder if you share the Islamists' resentment of Western civilization.

 

[Auvergnat]

It is clear that the German police are not ready to be dealing with such cases, we've seen so in the case of the mall shooting from several months ago where there was a lot of confusion going on, but that is simply absurd.

Unless you do live in a police state, the police does not always solve crimes, especially not in the few hours after the events occur. But there is nothing wrong with that.

Between security and freedom, I usually prefer freedom. No police state for me, thanks. Mass surveillance is too much.

Personally I find that terrorism is not such a big deal: a mere hundred more deaths every year is not very significant. Politically however, this is very significant, but so far it rather served my interests by forcing my compatriots to be more honest about their discontentment regarding Islam and immigration. If we ever stop the islamization of France, we will owe it to ISIS; this would be worth a Bataclan or two.

 

[truthatallcost]

“It is the case that we possibly still have a dangerous offender in our area,” warned Berlin’s police chief, Klaus Kandt. “These days it is necessary to be vigilant.”

Holger Münch, president of the Federal Office for Criminal Investigation, said police were “highly alarmed” because they did not know who was behind the attack and the gun used on the victim in the truck had not been found.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...9924caa2450_story.html?utm_term=.ebf6a7a077b6

Possible armed terrorist(s) on the loose in Germany. Residents being advised to stay indoors. How quickly the situation in Germany has come to resemble France, where people run for their lives at the sound of a firecracker, immediately assuming that the loud bang must be a terrorist's gun aimed at them.

 

[Apocalypse]

Unless you do live in a police state, the police does not always solve crimes, especially not in the few hours after the events occur. But there is nothing wrong with that.

Between security and freedom, I prefer freedom. No police state for me, thanks.

The point is that committing such an attack on a crowded place where such an event is taking place during holidays time, meaning security needs to be high anyway and especially during such times when the threat of terrorism is high in European nations like Germany, and walking away from it without getting caught is a big problem.

Personally I find that terrorism is not such a big deal: a mere hundred more deaths every year is not very significant.

That's a very stupid way to look at things.

 

[Auvergnat]

France, where people run for their lives at the sound of a firecracker, immediately assuming that the loud bang must be a terrorist's gun aimed at them.

Errrr, no, definitely no.

 

[Tigerace117]

I'm not surprised to see that you feel the need to turn to lame attempts to insult me, instead of debating the issue. As a total stranger on an internet site, you have not the faintest idea what "people like" me are or who my "buddies" are, let alone whether I am rubbing my hands in glee at the prospect of mob violence against Muslims. I think it is clear, though, to most people who have read your posts, that you are anxious to leap to the defense of Islamists whenever anyone criticizes them. That tendency makes me wonder if you share the Islamists' resentment of Western civilization.

If you consider the far right to exemplify "western civilization" that says rather a lot about you.

I resent Neo Nazi pricks taking advantage of terrorist attacks for political gain. I resent morons who aid those pricks and want to destroy America and her values in the name of "security". I resent those who support the murder of innocent Americans based on their religion. In short, I resent assholes.

No terrorist group that has ever lived or ever will can destroy the US, or even come close to stopping us. Only morons already here can do that.

And I've seen your posts on the internment camps.

 

[truthatallcost]

Errrr, no, definitely no.

 

[Auvergnat]

The point is that committing such an attack on a crowded place where such an event is taking place during holidays time, meaning security needs to be high anyway and especially during such times when the threat of terrorism is high in European nations like Germany, and walking away from it without getting caught is a big problem.

And I am sure there were policemen nearby. But I am also sure the man previously inspected the neighborhood and the escape routes.

That's a very stupid way to look at things.

So the smart thing to do is to promote mass surveillance, forego your privacy and let your government study everyone of your communications because of a risk that does not even account for 0.1% of your yearly deaths?

The biggest problem with terrorism are the mass medias who turn this into big budget shows, into large-scale masses, into formidable dramas where all are called to mourn for the deaths of random strangers they do not even care about. They deliberately amplify the fear it generates and fuels the anguishes it births, just for the sake of selling Coca-Cola ads. Heck, they turn those terrorists into pop icons for millions of young Muslims. Want to be famous? Kill people and shout Allah Akbar.

If you want to erase terrorism, it's pretty simple: dedicate five minutes to it and move on to something else.

 

[Auvergnat]

...

Actually, while initially many medias rushed to report that it was because of firecrackers, later testimonies revealed that it was because police forces sprayed gas to stop a fight between supporters.

 

[matchlight]

If you consider the far right to exemplify "western civilization" that says rather a lot about you.

I resent Neo Nazi pricks taking advantage of terrorist attacks for political gain. I resent morons who aid those pricks and want to destroy America and her values in the name of "security". I resent those who support the murder of innocent Americans based on their religion. In short, I resent assholes.

No terrorist group that has ever lived or ever will can destroy the US, or even come close to stopping us. Only morons already here can do that.

And I've seen your posts on the internment camps.

You seem to be very resentful. Apparently you imagine that everyone who does not share your urge to rush to the defense of Islamists is a moron, a neo-Nazi, or worse.

I'm glad you've read my posts on the World War Two internment. I've studied that subject quite a bit, and I am convinced President Roosevelt acted within his constitutional authority. So was a majority of the Supreme Court. Muslims living in this country would do well to reflect on that history. They may be considered suspect if there is another large-scale Muslim jihadist act of war against this country. I am convinced that more than a few of them sympathize with jihadists and, if they learned of an attack being planned against the U.S., would do nothing to inform authorities.

 

[truthatallcost]

Actually, while initially many medias rushed to report that it was because of firecrackers, later testimonies revealed that it was because police forces sprayed gas to stop a fight between supporters.

Would French police really spray gas to break up a simple fight between football fans?

 

[Chagos]

Would French police really spray gas to break up a simple fight between football fans?

You bet they do.

I'm also guessing you didn't watch much of the Euro2016, perhaps not being a soccer fan. If you had, you'd have seen what some of those "simple fighters" got up to. The hooligan scene is famous (well, infamous) with the Russian "hools" having set new standards there. Who was actually playing whom didn't matter, they showed up just for bashing the heads of others. That means the Russian football team playing or not had as little to do with anything as did football overall.

 

[Apocalypse]

And I am sure there were policemen nearby. But I am also sure the man previously inspected the neighborhood and the escape routes.

The statement by the police that he might still be out there came a day after the attack, he didn't seem to even need to have an escape plan if they didn't look for him.

So the smart thing to do is to promote mass surveillance, forego your privacy and let your government study everyone of your communications because of a risk that does not even account for 0.1% of your yearly deaths?

Not getting into what the smart solution is(and it isn't as black or white as you wish to present it, it's not either full freedom and no security or full security and no freedom, both are not really probable solutions), but the way you look at it, referring to the amount of people dying out of the general number of deaths from stuff like heart attacks, cancer, car accidents, etc. and reaching the conclusion it's nothing to worry about, is quite stupid to be blunt. It's a very stupid way to look at the issue.

The biggest problem with terrorism are the mass medias who turn this into big budget shows, into large-scale masses, into formidable dramas where all are called to mourn for the deaths of random strangers they do not even care about. They deliberately amplify the fear it generates and fuels the anguishes it births, just for the sake of selling Coca-Cola ads. Heck, they turn those terrorists into pop icons for millions of young Muslims. Want to be famous? Kill people and shout Allah Akbar.

If you want to erase terrorism, it's pretty simple: dedicate five minutes to it and move on to something else.

Terrorism targets people for who they are, it is only expected that in the Whitechapel district of London where there's a serial killer who takes out hookers the hookers community will feel terrorized and fear for their safety. And that's a profession, something you choose, the terror is greater when people are murdered for something they are either born with or born into such as nationality, religion or ethnicity. Hence why it's called terrorism to begin with.

Referring to it as a "non-issue" isn't helpful at all. It's right that people won't care when some drug dealer is shot down in some alley during a drug deal gone bad, they are not drug dealers and aren't likely to get themselves into such situations. They won't fear when they hear about a woman getting shot by her husband for sleeping with another man, they're not responsible for that action. But people who often shop in Berlin during Christmas will feel like it could have been them who'd be targeted for murder by the terrorist. If there's such incident in the next day as well and then in the day after, they'll feel less and less secure in even going out of their house, as the people of Paris did in the days after the November attacks.

Your protest at this natural response is thus pretty much pointless.

 

[Auvergnat]

Would French police really spray gas to break up a simple fight between football fans?

We are talking about large-scale fights potentially involving tens of fighters who purposely came for this, and many innocent bystanders. Gas is usually the most harmless and safest way to stop the fight, both for the police, the offenders and the neutrals.

And Chagos is correct to point out the Russian fans although they were probably not involved that night: they are militias who dedicate themselves to fighting other groups, many of them are neo-Nazi groups. They are well trained, both individually and collectively. Some of them follow a daily regimen and many have a military experience, and they are able to stand their ground against ordinary police forces or shock troops seeking to minimize casualties.