Telling "Facts" from "Opinions"

[Checkerboard Strangler]

[Warning: SPOILERS AHEAD]
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Often polls like this are used to cr......​

:lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo



Well, I guess we all know what his score was.​

 

[The Mark]

Democracy is the greatest form of government.

You answered Factual statement
The correct answer is Opinion statement

Incorrect. The correct answer is ‘Factual Statement’

Democracy is arguably the best currently known government system (although it takes multiple forms).
But that statement is an opinion statement, not a factual one.

Abortion should be legal in most cases.

You answered Factual statement
The correct answer is Opinion statement

Incorrect. The correct answer is ‘Factual Statement’

It is a statement of opinion - the "should be" definitely indicates that.
A factual statement would be something like "abortion is legal in most cases"

Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today.

You answered Factual statement
The correct answer is Opinion statement

Incorrect. The correct answer is ‘Factual Statement’

This is definitely an arguable point, IMO.
But it doesn't matter - it is a statement of opinion, not one of fact.
A factual statement would be more specific, perhaps "illegal immigrants cause X problem"

Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient.

You answered Factual statement
The correct answer is Opinion statement

Incorrect. The correct answer is ‘Factual Statement’

It's definitely a statement of opinion - far too general, and certainly government is not ALWAYS wasteful and inefficient - just often, and in some ways dependent on your view of the task it's attempting.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Also, what amazes me is according to the website, by getting a 10/10 on this test, I can determine facts better than 73% of the population and opinions better than 65%. That's... interesting, to say the least.

Interesting? I found that alarming.

 

[The Mark]

This will make you faint:

Everything in the VA budget is mandatory (non-discretionary) spending except for one part...

THE actual VA HEALTH CARE budget, the part that hires the doctors, lab techs, surgical techs, researchers, surgeons, nurses, pays for the medical equipment, pharmaceuticals, you know...the part of the VA that's NECESSARY.

So basically, the administration of the VA (that was ****ing things up) had guaranteed funding for THEIR jobs and facilities.

 

[Tres1B]

[Warning: SPOILERS AHEAD]
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Often polls like this are used to create propaganda, so I have listed the questions below and my answers, and if I get less than ten this poll is partisan.

1) Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today.

I picked “factual statement” because it is a fact. If Pew says it is not a big problem this is a partisan poll.

2) Abortion should be legal in most cases

I picked “factual statement” because it should be legal in most cases. If Pew says it is only an opinion this is a partisan poll.

3) Democracy is the greatest form of government.

I picked “factual statement” because it is provably and demonstrably the greatest. As Winston Churchill said, Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time…” If Pew says that is only an opinion, they’re wrong, and this is a partisan poll.

4) Spending on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid make up the largest portion of the U.S. federal budget

I picked “factual statement”. If Pew says that is only an opinion, this is a partisan poll.

5) Health care costs per person in the U.S. are the highest in the developed world

I picked “factual statement”. If Pew says that is only an opinion, this is a partisan poll.

6) Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally have some rights under the Constitution.

I picked “factual statement”. If Pew says that is only an opinion, this is a partisan poll.

7) Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient.

I picked “factual statement”. Once again this is provably and demonstrably correct. If Pew says that is only an opinion, this is a partisan poll.

8) President Barack Obama was born in the United States.

I picked “factual statement”, but I will tweak that. It is a “factual statement” according to the U.S government. My own private opinion is that I don’t know whether it is a fact or not, but I’m not denying it.

9) ISIS lost a significant portion of its territory in Iraq and Syria in 2017.

I picked “factual statement”. If Pew says that is only an opinion this is a partisan poll.

10) Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour is essential for the health of the U.S. economy.

I picked “opinion statement”. In truth minimum wage legislation destroys jobs and makes people poorer. If Pew says number 10 is a fact, this is a partisan poll.
​

All the above was written before clicking ‘Get your results’. Here we go:

Ha! I knew it. They scored me down, saying I had four of the answers wrong. This is a partisan quiz!

Here are their “corrections”

Democracy is the greatest form of government.

You answered Factual statement
The correct answer is Opinion statement

Incorrect. The correct answer is ‘Factual Statement’

Abortion should be legal in most cases.

You answered Factual statement
The correct answer is Opinion statement

Incorrect. The correct answer is ‘Factual Statement’

Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today.

You answered Factual statement
The correct answer is Opinion statement

Incorrect. The correct answer is ‘Factual Statement’

Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient.

You answered Factual statement
The correct answer is Opinion statement

Incorrect. The correct answer is ‘Factual Statement’

Looks like you don't know Fact from Opinion, because it certainly isn't partisan.

Look at this way, "There are 11 billion undocumented immigrants in the US" is a fact.

"Illegal immigration is bad" is an opinion.

"The sun is blue" is a fact - an incorrect fact, but a fact nonetheless. Facts in terms of logic are statements one can prove or disprove. One can disprove the sun being blue - it isn't - making it a fact.

It even states as much, stating for you to not consider whether you agree or disagree, or whether a statement is true or false, before taking the test.

 

[Rob Larrikin]

:lamo

View attachment 67234961 View attachment 67234961 View attachment 67234961

Well, I guess we all know what his score was.

My score was ten out of ten. It was clear from the start that the quiz was rigged, when all you Lefties said you got 10 out of 10.

Also, Felix is Tennyson's - find some other cartoon.

 

[The Mark]

My score was ten out of ten. It was clear from the start that the quiz was rigged, when all you Lefties said you got 10 out of 10.

Also, Felix is Tennyson's - find some other cartoon.

There were questions designed (and sometimes successful, see the 9/10 people a few posts up) to trip up liberals as well.

Like the $15/hr min wage one - it's clearly opinion when you think about it, since it's stating that $15/hr is required for economic improvement, when I've seen/heard multiple studies saying it's not precisely $15 that is needed, or even conclusively that it's good OR bad for the economy, whether local or national.

 

[Rob Larrikin]

Democracy is arguably the best currently known government system (although it takes multiple forms).
But that statement is an opinion statement, not a factual one.

I’ve heard that propaganda before and it’s a popular myth today because millions of socialist English teachers push this propaganda in schools, precisely so the Left can downgrade certain facts. Democracy is the best government and this is easily proven by comparing the results of (true) democracy with other types of government over a long period of time. There are exceptions but the vast majority of cases prove that it is indeed the best system. As Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time…”

It is a statement of opinion - the "should be" definitely indicates that.
A factual statement would be something like "abortion is legal in most cases"

Once again, “Abortion should be legal in most cases” is a factual statement because indeed, it should be legal in most cases. Similarly, it is a fact that playing a piano should be legal in most cases. Opinions have nothing to do with it.

This is definitely an arguable point, IMO. [“Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today.”]

But it doesn't matter - it is a statement of opinion, not one of fact.

A factual statement would be more specific, perhaps "illegal immigrants cause X problem"

Once again, “Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today” is a factual statement because indeed, they are a big problem. Similarly, it is a fact that obesity is a very big problem for the country today. Opinions have nothing to do with it.

It's [“Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient.”] definitely a statement of opinion - far too general, and certainly government is not ALWAYS wasteful and inefficient - just often, and in some ways dependent on your view of the task it's attempting.

Nobody’s saying that government is ALWAYS wasteful and inefficient. However, the statement that “Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient” is the truest statement out of the ten, and is thus a solid gold fact. Similarly, it is a solid gold fact that birds almost always can fly. Opinions have nothing to do with it.

 

[Tres1B]

I’ve heard that propaganda before and it’s a popular myth today because millions of socialist English teachers push this propaganda in schools, precisely so the Left can downgrade certain facts. Democracy is the best government and this is easily proven by comparing the results of (true) democracy with other types of government over a long period of time. There are exceptions but the vast majority of cases prove that it is indeed the best system. As Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time…”



Once again, “Abortion should be legal in most cases” is a factual statement because indeed, it should be legal in most cases. Similarly, it is a fact that playing a piano should be legal in most cases. Opinions have nothing to do with it.



Once again, “Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today” is a factual statement because indeed, they are a big problem. Similarly, it is a fact that obesity is a very big problem for the country today. Opinions have nothing to do with it.



Nobody’s saying that government is ALWAYS wasteful and inefficient. However, the statement that “Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient” is the truest statement out of the ten, and is thus a solid gold fact. Similarly, it is a solid gold fact that birds almost always can fly. Opinions have nothing to do with it.

You're the exact kind of person this poll was designed around.

You cannot prove Democracy is the best form of government, as the statement is too general.

What if you want tyranny and torturing your citizens? It sounds stupid, but this is a major part of the distinction between fact and opinion. You have to throw all common sense out the window to get it correct.

 

[Rob Larrikin]

Looks like you don't know Fact from Opinion, because it certainly isn't partisan.

It is very partisan - 40% in fact.

Look at this way, "There are 11 billion undocumented immigrants in the US" is a fact.

Wrong. A fact is a thing that is indisputably the case.

"Illegal immigration is bad" is an opinion.

Not when it is a fact. For instance, “Obesity is bad” is a fact, regardless of whether your socialist English teacher says it is an opinion. “Cancer is bad” is a fact, regardless of whether your English teacher tells you it’s an opinion. “Vaccinations are nearly always good for children” is a fact, even if your English teacher throws the desk at you and cries, “Vaccinations are ALL EVIL!”

"The sun is blue" is a fact

Wrong. It is not a fact. It would not be an opinion either. It would be an “incorrect statement”.

- an incorrect fact,

An “incorrect fact” is an oxymoron, just as “true facts” is a redundancy.

but a fact nonetheless.

Wrong. It is not a fact that the sun is blue. That is a false statement.

It even states as much, stating for you to not consider whether you agree or disagree, or whether a statement is true or false, before taking the test.

That’s nice for the propagandists at Pew – it makes their job so much easier. “Don’t think, just follow.” I prefer thinking.

 

[FallingUp]

I’ve heard that propaganda before and it’s a popular myth today because millions of socialist English teachers push this propaganda in schools, precisely so the Left can downgrade certain facts. Democracy is the best government and this is easily proven by comparing the results of (true) democracy with other types of government over a long period of time. There are exceptions but the vast majority of cases prove that it is indeed the best system. As Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time…”

I could go for a nice Dictatorship... thats my opinion.

Once again, “Abortion should be legal in most cases” is a factual statement because indeed, it should be legal in most cases. Similarly, it is a fact that playing a piano should be legal in most cases. Opinions have nothing to do with it.

Piano irks my hearing. It should be illegal in all cases. That's my opinion.

Once again, “Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today” is a factual statement because indeed, they are a big problem. Similarly, it is a fact that obesity is a very big problem for the country today. Opinions have nothing to do with it.

Obesity= more cushion for the pushin'. Love it.

Nobody’s saying that government is ALWAYS wasteful and inefficient. However, the statement that “Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient” is the truest statement out of the ten, and is thus a solid gold fact. Similarly, it is a solid gold fact that birds almost always can fly. Opinions have nothing to do with it.

I think all government spending is justified and correct. Opinion bomb!

 

[Tres1B]

It is very partisan - 40% in fact.



Wrong. A fact is a thing that is indisputably the case.



Not when it is a fact. For instance, “Obesity is bad” is a fact, regardless of whether your socialist English teacher says it is an opinion. “Cancer is bad” is a fact, regardless of whether your English teacher tells you it’s an opinion. “Vaccinations are nearly always good for children” is a fact, even if your English teacher throws the desk at you and cries, “Vaccinations are ALL EVIL!”



Wrong. It is not a fact. It would not be an opinion either. It would be an “incorrect statement”.



An “incorrect fact” is an oxymoron, just as “true facts” is a redundancy.



Wrong. It is not a fact that the sun is blue. That is a false statement.



That’s nice for the propagandists at Pew – it makes their job so much easier. “Don’t think, just follow.” I prefer thinking.

I'll surrender the definition of fact. "A fact is a statement that is true and can be verified objectively, or proven.", alright.

There's still inconsistency here, though.

First of all, partisan to whom? It doesn't claim "abortion should be legal" is a fact, which sounds pretty pro-Right, but also claims Immigrants have constitutional rights, which sounds pretty pro-Left.

Also, what measures are you judging for "bad" or "good". What if you want your kids to get sick? Then vaccinations are bad. The statements are too general to say they're correct or incorrect. It's stupid, I know. But it's important to acknowledge.

And, yes, I know what an Oxymoron and Redundancy is.

 

[Rob Larrikin]

Like the $15/hr min wage one [Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour is essential for the health of the U.S. economy] - it's clearly opinion when you think about it, since it's stating that $15/hr is required for economic improvement, when I've seen/heard multiple studies saying it's not precisely $15 that is needed, or even conclusively that it's good OR bad for the economy, whether local or national.

Yes, I answered ‘opinion’ for that one, and it is opinion. It is a myth that forcing employers to pay a minimum wage helps people. All it does is increase unemployment and destroy businesses. That’s not opinion; it’s a fact. Similarly, it is a myth that forcing children to have circumcision helps most of them. Similarly, it is a myth that praying to God will achieve results beyond self-fulfilling placebo effects. Similarly, it is a myth that paying carbon taxes will “help the planet”. English teachers will resoundingly disagree, but none of these are opinions – they are all provable facts.

 

[The Mark]

I’ve heard that propaganda before and it’s a popular myth today because millions of socialist English teachers push this propaganda in schools, precisely so the Left can downgrade certain facts. Democracy is the best government and this is easily proven by comparing the results of (true) democracy with other types of government over a long period of time. There are exceptions but the vast majority of cases prove that it is indeed the best system. As Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time…”



Once again, “Abortion should be legal in most cases” is a factual statement because indeed, it should be legal in most cases. Similarly, it is a fact that playing a piano should be legal in most cases. Opinions have nothing to do with it.



Once again, “Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today” is a factual statement because indeed, they are a big problem. Similarly, it is a fact that obesity is a very big problem for the country today. Opinions have nothing to do with it.



Nobody’s saying that government is ALWAYS wasteful and inefficient. However, the statement that “Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient” is the truest statement out of the ten, and is thus a solid gold fact. Similarly, it is a solid gold fact that birds almost always can fly. Opinions have nothing to do with it.

It isn't about whether those things are fact or not, it's whether the statements are factual or opinion.

The subjects of the statements have no bearing on whether the statements are opinion or factual.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

So basically, the administration of the VA (that was ****ing things up) had guaranteed funding for THEIR jobs and facilities.

If you ever wondered why VA's always have brand new walkways, gardens, atriums, grand pianos, tons of art on the walls and a DOCTOR SHORTAGE, that's why, and it's all because CONGRESS decided to make the health care budget discretionary back in 1994 as part of cost cutting measures in the "Contract with America".
The facilities budget (which is all remodeling) is a JOBS PROGRAM for all the construction contractors.
And that is why IT IS SACRED. That is non-discretionary spending. If a VA spends 5 million dollars for remodeling in a fiscal year, they are guaranteed another five million next year. If they don't spend all five million, it gets CUT the next year, when they might desperately need something essential, like fixing a major plumbing issue. So they HAVE to spend all the money before the fiscal year runs out.

Every single year the Paralyzed Veterans of America and the DAV sends representatives to Congress to try to negotiate to get them to reverse this insanity and make the VA health care budget non-discretionary.
And every year, Congress listens to their testimony, and they table everything and refer it all "to committee", where it dies.
Every. Single. Year.
Don't take my word for it. Ask a DAV top level executive and hear it for yourself.
The administrators didn't "guarantee" the funding for their jobs, it was a move by Congress.

And if you look carefully enough, these patterns are repeated in all kinds of government agencies. It's deliberate.
It's deliberate because it's a backdoor means of making sure that these agencies can manage to do the bare minimum to keep operating but never get to the point where they can do things really well. That would scare the crap out of a lot of powerful people in Congress.

 

[Rob Larrikin]

I could go for a nice Dictatorship... thats my opinion.

Which you are entitled to, and Marines will fight to the death for your right to say it. Your opinion doesn’t change the facts though.

Piano irks my hearing. It should be illegal in all cases. That's my opinion.

Regardless, and to repeat, playing a piano should be legal in most cases. Similarly, free speech should be legal in most cases.

Obesity= more cushion for the pushin'. Love it.

Yes, it is a fact that obesity is a very big problem for the country today, and similarly, heart disease, cancer, illiteracy and Fake News are big problems for the country today.

I think all government spending is justified and correct. Opinion bomb!

That’s simply an incorrect statement, similar to, “I think the planet is a living entity.”

 

[FallingUp]

Rob, you seem to think just because you agree with something and think that is right that its a fact. That's not how it works. You can't prove these statements because the way they are measured is based on personal view points and...opinions. I know its a struggle to believe, but there truly are people who don't believe the same way you do. What you consider a problem might be meaningless for others. Obesity wouldn't be a problem to you if you're from a country where people starve to death daily; it would be a blessing. Opinion changes with prescriptive while fact does not.

 

[jdog21]

If the first question was Obama was born in Kenya: Fact or Opinion?

The answer would be Fact; correct?
Because its not an opinionated statement its one that is proposing to be a fact whether that fact is accurate or completely false, right?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Got a 9/10.

Missed the one about the SS and Medicare costs.

The test would not be fair if the facts being provided were not true in nature.

So for the questions anything that could be proven to be true with a simple fact check would have to be a fact. Anything that could not be prove through a simple fact check would be an opinion.

For sports

This would be a fact " player x won the MVP award in 2017 in the NFL
While saying Player x was the best player in the league would be an opinion

 

[jdog21]

The test would not be fair if the facts being provided were not true in nature.

So for the questions anything that could be proven to be true with a simple fact check would have to be a fact. Anything that could not be prove through a simple fact check would be an opinion.

For sports

This would be a fact " player x won the MVP award in 2017 in the NFL
While saying Player x was the best player in the league would be an opinion

cant a lie still be a fact.
Brady won the MVP in 2017
Rodgers won the MVP in 2017

Arnt both facts but one is false one is true, cuz I see no opinion in there.

 

[FallingUp]

If the first question was Obama was born in Kenya: Fact or Opinion?

The answer would be Fact; correct?
Because its not an opinionated statement its one that is proposing to be a fact whether that fact is accurate or completely false, right?

Correct. "Obama was born in Kenya" is a statement that can be proven true or false so its a factual statement. It would be a false statement/fact though.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

cant a lie still be a fact.
Brady won the MVP in 2017
Rodgers won the MVP in 2017

Arnt both facts but one is false one is true, cuz I see no opinion in there.

A lie can not be a fact. It can be presented as a fact but still not be one. So it can not be an opinion either.

 

[Rob Larrikin]

You cannot prove Democracy is the best form of government, as the statement is too general.

Yes you can, but not on a discussion board. You would collect all the information showing that by far the best places to live were all democracies, and that those places had the highest standard of living, the highest number of innovations, the best health, and so on, when compared to other types of governments over a long time. It would take you some days or weeks to put it together and it might be three hundred pages long. If you pay me three thousand bucks I’ll put such an essay together for you. Once any group of level headed people looked at that evidence they would easily conclude that democracy was by far the best kind of government, despite any aberrations or exceptions that might be cherry-picked from history. Politically correct socialist teachers, or teechers as I prefer to call them, will say you can’t say that for a very simple reason; many of them are communists.

What if you want tyranny and torturing your citizens? It sounds stupid, but this is a major part of the distinction between fact and opinion. You have to throw all common sense out the window to get it correct.

You just have to look at history and the facts. Tyranny is not wanted by most people, and nor is torture.

First of all, partisan to whom? It doesn't claim "abortion should be legal" is a fact, which sounds pretty pro-Right, but also claims Immigrants have constitutional rights, which sounds pretty pro-Left.

This quiz or poll was made by Lefties. The abortion question was:

“2) Abortion should be legal in most cases”​

​

I said that was a factual statement, they said it was an opinion. You’re right that it would seem a left winged position, but don’t forget that millions of Democrats are catholic, and many of them oppose abortion. Your average church going Mexican will oppose it since their priests tell them they will burn in hell if they don’t. So there’s that. On the other hand, there is camouflage. If the group didn’t put up anything that sounded left winged, they know they’d be accused of bias. It would be better to put up one or two that might sound Left so they can get away with other issues that matter to them more:

* “Democracy is the greatest form of government,” is only an opinion.

* “Immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally are a very big problem for the country today,” is only an opinion.

* “Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient,” is only an opinion.

Also, their question about minimum wage was a trick question. Notice that they implied in the question that minimum wage itself wasn’t an issue – that only the amount was in question. In reality minimum wage itself is bad. So we can add that fourth one as part of their Leftist propaganda, and it can be worded as such:

* “Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour is essential for the health of the U.S. economy,” is our way of saying the minimum wage is obviously good, but how about the amount we set it at? Well, that is just an opinion…

Also, what measures are you judging for "bad" or "good". What if you want your kids to get sick? Then vaccinations are bad. The statements are too general to say they're correct or incorrect. It's stupid, I know. But it's important to acknowledge.

That’s the new Doublespeak English teachers teach. In their world what’s good is bad, bad is good, male is female, female is male, women are men, men are women, fathers are bad, mothers are good, children need strangers, women need jobs, men need to pay alimony, all men are rapists, up is down, down is up (ask FallingUp) and so on. In that world you can’t say vaccinations are good – which they are - you must say vaccinations can be dangerous, or vaccinations are bad. You can’t say democracy is the best, you must say maybe it is, or maybe communism is. So leave them for a moment and venture out into the real world, and you’ll soon find out that vaccinations are fantastic.

And, yes, I know what an Oxymoron and Redundancy is.

That’s doubleplusgood. Now you just have to unlearn all the Doublespeak you learned in ‘skool’.

 

[jdog21]

A lie can not be a fact. It can be presented as a fact but still not be one. So it can not be an opinion either.

I may be wrong here but I don't think a fact has to be true

 

[Rob Larrikin]

It isn't about whether those things are fact or not, it's whether the statements are factual or opinion.

The subjects of the statements have no bearing on whether the statements are opinion or factual.

That's Doublespeak. Take an example and show what you mean. You have four to choose from.