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Tax Cuts Are An Expense To The Federal Government

chuckiechan said:
Have you spent you career working for a poor man?

Using class warfare as an excuse to confiscate the nations capital is something only a socialist can love. Capital redistributed to the final "spending class" lacks productivity as they are at end of the mark up chain. Buying that box of cereal and eating it is the end of the line. If you sold it by the bowl in your restaurant you are being productive with that box of capital, assuming you marked it up. It takes capital to produce, package, and transport that cereal.

BTW, you pay the tax in each bracket on the way to your 2,000,000. You don't put all 2,000,000 in the 2,000,000 bracket. I suggest you send your post to your tax man for a revision so we have something to argue about.
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There is a direct correlation to tax cuts and increased national debt.

TAX-CUTS-DEBT.jpg
 
DA60 said:
A) That is not the government's business or fault. Owning a house is not a right...it is a privilege. Let the Buyer Beware. Like any other product you buy, what happens once you buy it in good faith is tough for you.
You are talking like you have a right to own that house...you do not. You have a right to be able to own that house. But you do not have the right to own it.

B) And you have not answered my question...

So basically, you want most rich people to almost never pay any taxes ever...because most rich people make the VAST majority of their money through capital gains?
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It appears that you think keeping what you earn (by any means) is a privilege and should be shared with all. The only question I have is why that "privilege" should not be the same regardless of the amount involved - why have the government get a different percentage based on the amount of income/gain?
 
calamity said:
There is a direct correlation to tax cuts and increased national debt.

TAX-CUTS-DEBT.jpg
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Why are these still the "Bush" tax rates when Obama decided to keep 98.6% of them as his tax policy?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It appears that you think keeping what you earn (by any means) is a privilege and should be shared with all. The only question I have is why that "privilege" should not be the same regardless of the amount involved - why have the government get a different percentage based on the amount of income/gain?
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You make money - you pay taxes on it. It does not matter how you make it. You don't agree...fine.

Look, if you are not going to answer my questions, I am not going to discuss yours any further.


Good day.
 
DA60 said:
You make money - you pay taxes on it. It does not matter how you make it. You don't agree...fine.

Look, if you are not going to answer my questions, I am not going to discuss yours any further.


Good day.
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I was not the one that decided that LTCG taxation rates should be different or that "progressive" tax rates should be used. I have no problem taxing income from all sources at a given flat rate, or even the concept of a truly standard deduction, but I do understand the rationale for taxing investment (which helps everyone) income differently.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I was not the one that decided that LTCG taxation rates should be different or that "progressive" tax rates should be used. I have no problem taxing income from all sources at a given flat rate, or even the concept of a truly standard deduction, but I do understand the rationale for taxing investment (which helps everyone) income differently.
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In future, if you are not going to answer my questions, please do not start a debate with me.


We are done here.

Good day.
 
DA60 said:
I am strongly for raising capital gains taxes by making them exactly the same as income taxes.

It's simple...but Trump refuses to do it (so did GW Bush and Obama); cut taxes AND spending.

That way, Americans have more money to spend which helps the economy AND the INCREDIBLY inefficient and corrupt government has less to spend - which means the money is far better utilized.

But government's DESPISE cutting spending because spending means power. And politicians ADORE power.
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If you cut taxes, you have to cut spending too. Trump cutting NPR, the EPA, and the State Department, is being rendered negligible by his increases in the DoD. Although, we have yet to see any big spending bills arrive. For all the Tea Party's blustering about smaller government and balanced budgets, I'll be eager to see what the Ways and Means committee comes up with. And if they're going to brutal, brutal hypocrites or not.

The problem is just the size of the numbers. Anywhere you can cut spending in a significant way, SSC, Medicare, and DoD, no politician dare touch.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Using this "logic" then Walmart, despite its massive sales volume, is worse off than a similar retail store that elects to carry more high end goods. I suspect that the Waltons might disagree with that (bolded above) assertion.

One must remember that payroll taxes capture 15.6% of each dollar of wages up to the cap of about $110K/year and yet raise plenty of revenue - they do not rely on being progressive but rather on having no "loopholes? at all, no complex formula to try to get a refund, and thus simply generate revenue that nobody seems to miss.
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Trust me I miss my payroll taxes. I would have way more disposable income, but payroll are highly regressive taxes on working people.

I think people like Winston miss the point the government generates revenue through economic activity.
Therefore it is better for government to encourage economic activity.
 
Winston said:
Yeah, I'm aware of the graduated levels, regarding how you pay income tax. With a million dollar income earner, just the income above 418,000 is taxed at 39%. The numbers above won't be 100% accurate because of this. Nice catch.

As for the comments of me being a socialist, they are pretty accurate. I'm definitely not a Democrat. Obama extended the Bush Tax Cuts. When we had a full blue congress and president, we still got Republican-light policies. The Democrats generally do not introduce legislation that I would favor or, even vote with the people's interest in mind.
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If people were aware of how screwed up the nations finances are from city to federal, they would have a heart attack. BTW, the only model that works for socialism is if the country is based on extraction industries where it gets to cycle 100% of the productivity.

But extraction industries make your society stupid. Look at Russia and the middle east, and much of Africa.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That sounds wonderful except that a long term capital gain (LTCG) is simply any sale of an (investment or real estate) asset (held more than a year) with a "profit". Currently we have a "loophole" for one's priciple residence and their "retirement" account assets that should be eliminated out of "fairness" (according to you?).

My beef with LTCG taxation is simple - it is a primarily a double tax on inflation along with the successful investing of your already taxed income. The first is not anyone's fault (or a real gain at all) and the second should be strongly encouraged, thus the lower (or no) taxation rate on any such "income". If you buy a house at fair market market value, live in it for 10 years, and then sell it at fair market value then you have gained nothing - you still have only enough money to buy that same house at fair market value.
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That's not double taxation, that is taxation on the new income from the sale of capital.
 
chuckiechan said:
If people were aware of how screwed up the nations finances are from city to federal, they would have a heart attack. BTW, the only model that works for socialism is if the country is based on extraction industries where it gets to cycle 100% of the productivity.

But extraction industries make your society stupid. Look at Russia and the middle east, and much of Africa.
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I don't favor a command economy. The U.S. economy, in my opinion, just needs some more regulation and taxing.
 
DA60 said:
I am strongly for raising capital gains taxes by making them exactly the same as income taxes.

I am also for eliminating all deductions except charitable contributions and capital losses.

And I think Trump's notion of tax cuts will bring in more revenue is basically him being desperate. Yes, tax cuts can increase revenue, but you look upon that as a bonus. You don't base your entire fiscal picture on that assumption...unless you are a fiscal idiot or you don't much care if the deficit goes up.

When you cut taxes you MUST cut expenses by the same amount or you must assume a rise in the deficit.

BTW, I am 100% against forced wealth redistribution. Punishing people for legally obtaining more money and giving it to people who have done nothing whatsoever to deserve it may be a moocher's paradise...but it is morally wrong. And it sends a terrible message to the economy; do well and we will take it from you...do nothing/poorly and we will reward you.
Plus it will STRONGLY encourage the rich to put their money/assets either underground or offshore...which helps America not at all.


It's simple...but Trump refuses to do it (so did GW Bush and Obama); cut taxes AND spending.

That way, Americans have more money to spend which helps the economy AND the INCREDIBLY inefficient and corrupt government has less to spend - which means the money is far better utilized.

But government's DESPISE cutting spending because spending means power. And politicians ADORE power.
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so you want to really rape 401Ks etc. its idiotic that capital gains should be taxed at up to 40% but then again its idiotic to have a progressive income tax

tax increases decrease the revenue of the people. That matters far more to me than decreasing GOVERNMENT revenue. The government has way too much money and spends way too much money on way too many things
 
jimbo said:
Your title is incorrect. Tax cuts are not an expense just as reducing the price of a steak is never an expense.

If you start with an incorrect economics definition, why should I pay attention to whatever else you have to say?
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Tax Cuts cost the government money. They aren't a fee for a good/service. But, they have the common sense effect on revenue. The lower the tax rate the lower the revenue.
 
Absentglare said:
Yes it is, a tax cut is a free pay raise just like any other handout.
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of all the silly posts you have made this might be the winner. a tax cut is not a pay raise any more than a thief taking less of your money is a raise.

this sort of idiotic attitude is based on the disgusting view that all wealth belongs to the government
 
TurtleDude said:
so you want to really rape 401Ks etc. its idiotic that capital gains should be taxed at up to 40% but then again its idiotic to have a progressive income tax

tax increases decrease the revenue of the people. That matters far more to me than decreasing GOVERNMENT revenue. The government has way too much money and spends way too much money on way too many things
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No, I want the maximum tax bracket to be 25%.

We were talking about how the tax system was structured...not the actual rates.


And no, a progressive tax system is not idiotic. What is idiotic is taxing people who make under $10,000. You want to go after people you make a couple grand a year for some token amounts of taxation so that 'everyone pays the same tax'? THAT is idiotic.

I say there should be three tax brackets... $0-poverty line for one person - 0%. poverty line-(say) $50K - 15%. Everything above that - 25%.

You are singing to the choir...I am fully cognizant that tax revenues need to come down.
 
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Winston said:
Tax Cuts cost the government money. They aren't a fee for a good/service. But, they have the common sense effect on revenue. The lower the tax rate the lower the revenue.
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not true. sometimes a lower rate means more revenue for the government. you pretend that tax raises or decreases have no other impact on the economy. Thus you are wrong
 
hanger4 said:
Adhering to tax law is now "exploiting loopholes". I laughed.
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Trump is a serial con man. I don't know the details. But, trust me, if there was a way to exploit policy for personal gain, Trump was there. Long as Trump gets his then screw everyone else.
 
DA60 said:
No, I want the maximum tax bracket to be 25%.

We were talking about how the tax system was structured...not the actual rates.
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that is less objectionable but capital gains should be very lightly taxed. But then again, I oppose the concept of income taxes to start with
 
TurtleDude said:
not true. sometimes a lower rate means more revenue for the government. you pretend that tax raises or decreases have no other impact on the economy. Thus you are wrong
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When, exactly does lower rates mean more revenue for the government?

While running for president in 1980, George H. W. Bush called the claim that cutting taxes on rich people will create enough economic activity that revenues will actually rise, “voodoo economic policy.” Under Reagan, he cut taxes and revenue slumped -- so much that he had to raise taxes (I mean introduce "revenue enhancers.")

Bill Clinton raised taxes on the rich. Republicans predicted disaster, but instead the economy boomed, creating more jobs than under Reagan and much more revenue. GW Bush slashed taxes and revenue, adjusted for inflation and population growth, never attained 2000 levels and economic and job growth was under-par. Yet, conservatives clench the discredited theory with both hands.
 
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