Sweden's U-Turn on Trans Kids: The Trans Train.

[iguanaman]

The sickest part of this is acting like you care about the trans kids. Really ****ed up.

Yes they want them to kill themselves.

 

[Gatsby]

Indeed! I think therapy would be advised as a replacement, you know I hear that some of those kids just have some depression about their noses, and talking it out would be much better.

^ Unironically this, minus the sarcasm.

 

[Lisa]

Yes they want them to kill themselves.

But remember , conservatives are pro-life.

(terms and conditions may apply)

 

[iguanaman]

But remember , conservatives are pro-life.

(terms and conditions may apply)

Pro-fetus is more like it and even that is questionable. It is more an anti-woman thing. They do not like women to be equal to men.

 

[Gatsby]

The horror I imagine when the Republicans find out about this!!!!! They'll be shocked!!! These poor children, and some come to regret those surgeries!!!! They should have just had therapy, to get over their dysphoria! Now they're mutilated for life!!

This is incoherent. You start by attributing it to Republicans (suggesting you disapprove of minors getting cosmetic nose jobs). But then you sarcastically imply that therapy to work on their body issues with their nose is a ridiculous idea that doesn't deserve serious consideration (suggesting you approve of minors getting cosmetic nose jobs).

How about we just don't do cosmetic surgery on minors, unless it's fixing a medical problem and/or reconstructive as a result of an accident or deformity? Why do teenagers need to get cosmetic nose jobs?

 

[Opossum]

I wasn't aware the vast majority of transgenders really had other mental health and competency issues. If that's true, and I'm skeptical....

Autism and Gender Identity | Autism Speaks

Click here to see how Eric Butter, Ph.D answers a question about autism and gender identity.

www.autismspeaks.org

"Transgender individuals are more at risk for mental health conditions, including depression, anxiety and suicide. About 30 to 50 percent of transgender teens attempt suicide. Some studies have found they have a higher rate of autism diagnosis, with estimates ranging from 6 to 13 percent. Other studies have found people with autism likewise have a higher rate of gender dysphoria or gender variance. They are also often dealing with other commonly co-occurring mental and physical health issues.

Given this observed higher rate of gender variance among children with ASD, it is important that evaluations for autism routinely assess for gender variance and that clinical evaluations of youth referred for gender variance also screen for autism."

 

[Lisa]

Autism and Gender Identity | Autism Speaks

Click here to see how Eric Butter, Ph.D answers a question about autism and gender identity.

www.autismspeaks.org

"Transgender individuals are more at risk for mental health conditions, including depression, anxiety and suicide. About 30 to 50 percent of transgender teens attempt suicide. Some studies have found they have a higher rate of autism diagnosis, with estimates ranging from 6 to 13 percent. Other studies have found people with autism likewise have a higher rate of gender dysphoria or gender variance. They are also often dealing with other commonly co-occurring mental and physical health issues.

Given this observed higher rate of gender variance among children with ASD, it is important that evaluations for autism routinely assess for gender variance and that clinical evaluations of youth referred for gender variance also screen for autism."

1,) Being in the autism spectrum does not mean that a persons is not transgender. https://psychcentral.com/autism/autism-and-transgender#causes

Largest study to date confirms overlap between autism and gender diversity

People who do not identify with the sex they were assigned at birth are three to six times as likely to be autistic as cisgender people are.

www.spectrumnews.org

2.) Depression and anxiety are typical and expected part of a gender dysphoria diagnosis. It is not something that means that the patient is not transgender instead. You don't know cause from effect.
Trans and NB people also tend to have a higher rate of PTSD because of abuse and neglect both in the home and in society. That is also common in the wider LGBTQ community.

LGBTQ+ People Experience a Range of Stressors​

Assault​

Lesbian, gay and bisexual identities have been associated with higher victimization across the lifespan compared to those with a heterosexual identity, including experiences of child abuse and sexual and physical assault (1). In fact, LGBTQ+ individuals are nearly 4 times more likely to experience violent assault (rape or sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated or simple assault) than their cisgender (i.e., person whose gender identity is the same as their sex as assigned at birth), heterosexual counterparts (2). As a result, LGBTQ+ people are at higher risk of developing PTSD, with prevalence estimates of up to 48% of LGB individuals and 42% of transgender and gender diverse individuals meeting criteria for PTSD (3). These estimates are much higher than the general population prevalence (4.7%; 4).

Minority stressors​

LGBTQ+ people also experience various socially-produced stressors due to their identities—these are often referred to in the research as minority stressors. Minority stressors include external or distal experiences, such as discrimination and violent victimization, as well as internal or proximal experiences such as internalized stigma (shame), expectations or fears of rejection, and identity concealment (5,6).

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

www.ptsd.va.gov

 

[Opossum]

1,) Being in the autism spectrum does not mean that a persons is not transgender. https://psychcentral.com/autism/autism-and-transgender#causes

Largest study to date confirms overlap between autism and gender diversity

People who do not identify with the sex they were assigned at birth are three to six times as likely to be autistic as cisgender people are.

www.spectrumnews.org

No shit, but treatments should focus on addressing all of those issues before going down the path of one of the worst fake medical treatments that have been created. I mean, before chopping off the penis of a healthy boy and creating an stinking open wound that they have to force open all the time or it will seal up, the other mental health issues should be worked on.

2.) Depression and anxiety are typical and expected part of a gender dysphoria diagnosis. It is not something that means that the patient is not transgender instead. You don't know cause from effect.
Trans and NB people also tend to have a higher rate of PTSD because of abuse and neglect both in the home and in society. That is also common in the wider LGBTQ community.

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

www.ptsd.va.gov

Same as above.

 

[Lisa]

No shit, but treatments should focus on addressing all of those issues before going down the path of one of the worst fake medical treatments that have been created. I mean, before chopping off the penis of a healthy boy and creating an stinking open wound that they have to force open all the time or it will seal up, the other mental health issues should be worked on.

Your opinions are irrelevant. Treating the autism doesn't cure the gender dysphoria. Depression and anxiety are typically treated concurrently.

Your misogyny is noted.

Same as above.

Just as irrelevant. Your bluster doesn't help your claims.

 

[iguanaman]

This is incoherent. You start by attributing it to Republicans (suggesting you disapprove of minors getting cosmetic nose jobs). But then you sarcastically imply that therapy to work on their body issues with their nose is a ridiculous idea that doesn't deserve serious consideration (suggesting you approve of minors getting cosmetic nose jobs).

How about we just don't do cosmetic surgery on minors, unless it's fixing a medical problem and/or reconstructive as a result of an accident or deformity? Why do teenagers need to get cosmetic nose jobs?

You sure seem to know what is best for everyone. I am not sure why you think that we should force everyone to take your advice? Do you have some sort of "second sense" that the rest of us lack?

 

[Gatsby]

You sure seem to know what is best for everyone. I am not sure why you think that we should force everyone to take your advice? Do you have some sort of "second sense" that the rest of us lack?

Lots of government policy has long been predicated on the assumption that, yes, the public often knows what's best for minors, because kids and teenagers are idiots. And occasionally, so are their parents. There's a reason why we have a legal concept of adulthood at all.

Unless there is some medical or reconstructive reason why a minor needs a nose job, they shouldn't get one until they're 18. If they're upset about that, too bad.

 

[Lisa]

Lots of government policy has long been predicated on the assumption that, yes, the public often knows what's best for minors, because kids and teenagers are idiots. And occasionally, so are their parents. There's a reason why we have a legal concept of adulthood at all.

Unless there is some medical or reconstructive reason why a minor needs a nose job, they shouldn't get one until they're 18. If they're upset about that, too bad.

And yet the people who are professionally trained in medicine and mental health disagree with you. I wonder how that could be when you claim you are always correct? Is this a conspiracy theory?

AMA strengthens its policy on protecting access to gender-affirming care

The American Medical Association (AMA) House of Delegates today passed the Endocrine Society’s resolution to protect access to evidence-based gender-affirming care for transgender and gender-diverse individuals.

www.endocrine.org

APA adopts groundbreaking policy supporting transgender, gender diverse, nonbinary individuals

Explore APA’s landmark policy endorsing evidence-based care for transgender, gender diverse, and nonbinary individuals, highlighting APA President Cynthia de las Fuentes's emphasis on inclusive healthcare, legislative challenges, and the comprehensive resolution advocating for equitable...

www.apa.org

Position Statement on Access to Care for Transgender and Gender Diverse Individuals

Position Statement on Access to Care for Transgender and Gender Diverse Individuals

www.psychiatry.org

Ensuring Comprehensive Care and Support for Transgender and Gender-Diverse Children and Adolescents

This Policy Statement was reaffirmed August 2023.. As a traditionally underserved population that faces numerous health disparities, youth who identify as transgender and gender diverse (TGD) and their families are increasingly presenting to pediatric providers for education, care, and...

publications.aap.org

 

[Opossum]

Your opinions are irrelevant. Treating the autism doesn't cure the gender dysphoria. Depression and anxiety are typically treated concurrently.

You just made up that statement (baseless opinion). No, it shouldn't be concurrently. It should be first and foremost.

Your misogyny is noted.

Cliche trope noted. Nothing about this has anything to do with misogyny. You've run out of points. You're done.

 

[Lisa]

You just made up that statement (baseless opinion). No, it shouldn't be concurrently. It should be first and foremost.

Treating the gender identity is also a treatment for depression and anxiety. You are desperate to find any reason to deny effective care for gender dysphoria other then psychotherapy.

Cliche trope noted. Nothing about this has anything to do with misogyny. You've run out of points. You're done.

Am I dismissed too?

 

[Ginger Ale]

This is incoherent. You start by attributing it to Republicans (suggesting you disapprove of minors getting cosmetic nose jobs). But then you sarcastically imply that therapy to work on their body issues with their nose is a ridiculous idea that doesn't deserve serious consideration (suggesting you approve of minors getting cosmetic nose jobs).

How about we just don't do cosmetic surgery on minors, unless it's fixing a medical problem and/or reconstructive as a result of an accident or deformity? Why do teenagers need to get cosmetic nose jobs?

Naw, it isn't.
I attribute the hypocrisy to Republicans who claim it's to save the children.

I was told therapy was the cure for transgenders as they're mentally ill, again, hypocrisy.

I'd love to see a general movement and policy regarding all cosmetic surgery on minors instead of a discriminating focus on only transgender youth!
Not because I mind the cosmetic surgery it's that I mind the witch hunt and singling out a vulnerable group.

Republicans make it clear what they don't approve of, and it's not all cosmetic surgery on minors. They make it clear that it's just transgenders.

You can do all the research you want on why teens get surgery for cosmetic reasons, and you'll find the answers are very similar to why transgenders get it.

The witch hunt is ugly. They should stop it.

 

[iguanaman]

Lots of government policy has long been predicated on the assumption that, yes, the public often knows what's best for minors, because kids and teenagers are idiots. And occasionally, so are their parents. There's a reason why we have a legal concept of adulthood at all.

Unless there is some medical or reconstructive reason why a minor needs a nose job, they shouldn't get one until they're 18. If they're upset about that, too bad.

Govt. policy not guided by experts in their fields is more like a political agenda. You have no qualifications in the field of transgender dysphoria or cosmetic surgery. The truth is that the experts do not want to treat young adults but at forced to by the hippocratic oath and the high levels of suicides in young transgender patients. They see their patients dying and want to help others avoid that same fate.

 

[Gatsby]

I'd love to see a general movement and policy regarding all cosmetic surgery on minors instead of a discriminating focus on only transgender youth!

Great, co-signed. I agree. I'm on board with banning all cosmetic surgery for minors unless it's reconstructive or otherwise fixing some defect.

Republicans make it clear what they don't approve of, and it's not all cosmetic surgery on minors. They make it clear that it's just transgenders.

I'll let Republicans speak for themselves since I'm a Democrat, but I don't think I've heard anyone in this thread endorse the "No to gender medicine for minors, but yes to nose jobs for minors" position. Maybe someone has and I missed it.

You can do all the research you want on why teens get surgery for cosmetic reasons, and you'll find the answers are very similar to why transgenders get it.

I agree. Angsty teenagers with body image problems. An equally bad reason for minors to get cosmetic nose jobs.

 

[Gatsby]

Govt. policy not guided by experts in their fields is more like a political agenda. You have no qualifications in the field of transgender dysphoria or cosmetic surgery.

So just to be clear...you are endorsing cosmetic nose jobs for minors? Any age limit at all you'd support?

 

[iguanaman]

So just to be clear...you are endorsing cosmetic nose jobs for minors? Any age limit at all you'd support?

I believe in freedom of choice and do not want the Govt. to come between a patient and their doctor. I guess I am old fashioned because I think the Govt. should stick to governing. But yes if a child is disfigured and surgery can help I support that right.

 

[Gatsby]

I believe in freedom of choice and do not want the Govt. to come between a patient and their doctor. I guess I am old fashioned.

I guess so.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Great, co-signed. I agree. I'm on board with banning all cosmetic surgery for minors unless it's reconstructive or otherwise fixing some defect.


I'll let Republicans speak for themselves since I'm a Democrat, but I don't think I've heard anyone in this thread endorse the "No to gender medicine for minors, but yes to nose jobs for minors" position. Maybe someone has and I missed it.


I agree. Angsty teenagers with body image problems. An equally bad reason for minors to get cosmetic nose jobs.

Way to miss a point.

If you are a democrat then you probably aren't voting for anti woke policies, so you aren't really relevant in this convo to me.

Republicans are only targeting transgenders regarding youths cosmetic surgery. There's a reason for that. They don't give a **** if youths are getting surgery, or they wouldn't be giving it to theirs. Comprende?

 

[Ginger Ale]

I believe in freedom of choice and do not want the Govt. to come between a patient and their doctor. I guess I am old fashioned because I think the Govt. should stick to governing. But yes if a child is disfigured and surgery can help I support that right.

Same.

 

[Ginger Ale]

This isn't about "all kids," it's about the LGBTQ+ kids. It's anti woke agenda. Christian Nationalists desire for exclusivity. They're targeting one group.

At least 19 bills either targeting transgender people specifically and or potentially LGBTQ+ people in general have been filed before Tuesday's start of the session. One, filed last week by Rep. Dean Black, R-Jacksonville — which removes mentions of "gender" throughout the Florida Statutes and requires sex affidavits from all Floridians with driver's licenses — might be one of the most sweeping anti-trans bills proposed in Florida yet.

There's also a push to keep children from encountering inappropriate material online, with five bills requiring carrying degrees of control from age verification and real-time moderation to banning children from social media entirely and terminating their existing accounts.

The bills clarify the book challenge and review process (notably blocking non-parents from challenging books and excluding classroom libraries from school library reviews) and stress that "school libraries may provide materials and information presenting all points of view on current and historical issues." It would also prohibit school districts from disclosing information to parents in the case that a "reasonably prudent person would believe that disclosure would result in harm to the student."

HB 1233: Biological Sex​

Rep. Black's bill seeks to ban legal recognition of transgender identities in the state and requires biological sex affidavits for all Floridians getting new or renewed driver's licenses. The bill would:

• Add reproductive-based definitions of "sex," "female," "male," "woman," "girl," "mother, "father," and "equal" (in respect to sex) to the very first Florida Statute.
• Replace the word "gender" with the word "sex" in every state application for ID including licenses and ID cards, disabled parking permits, driver's licenses, discrimination laws, and requirements for representation on boards, commissions, councils, and committees.
• Mandates that the sex listed on a person's birth certificate would determine if the person may serve as a committeeman or committeewoman.
• Prohibits the Department of Motor Vehicles from issuing or renewing driver's licenses with a listed sex different from the one listed on a person's original birth certificate.
• Requires every Floridian — transgender or not — applying for a new or renewal driver's license to sign an affidavit certifying that the sex listed on the application is identical to the one on their original birth certificate. If it is found not to match, the card must be revoked.
• Mandates that any insurance company covering gender-affirming prescriptions or procedures must also provide coverage for detransition treatment, with no end-of-coverage date provided.
• Requires any health insurance provider issuing policies in Florida that include gender-affirming coverage to also offer policies that do not.
• Blocks insurance companies from prohibiting coverage of anti-trans therapy.
• Defines separate accommodations for biological sex as "not inherently unequal" and allows laws and rules that distinguish between the sexes with respect to "athletics, prisons or other detention facilities, domestic violence shelters, rape crisis centers, locker rooms, restrooms, and other areas where biology, safety, or privacy are implicated."
• Specifically says that if any single part of the act is held invalid, the rest still applies.

Florida GOP doubling down with new anti-LGBTQ bills for 2024. What you need to know

At least 11 bills targeting transgender people specifically and LGBTQ+ people in general have been filed for the 2024 Florida Legislative Session so far.

www.tallahassee.com

I see no bills from Republicans introducing bans on cosmetic surgery or hormones for "normal" kids. Nor a need for therapy as a replacement for the surgeries. There's a reason for this.

 

[Gatsby]

Way to miss a point.

If you are a democrat then you probably aren't voting for anti woke policies, so you aren't really relevant in this convo. to me.

Republicans are only targeting transgenders regarding youths cosmetic surgery. There's a reason for that. They don't give a **** if youths are getting surgery, or they wouldn't be giving it to theirs. Comprende?

I guess. I have no idea what the partisan breakdown of people who get nose jobs for their kids is. But if you think it's important then I'll bow out and let Republicans speak for themselves.

 

[Opossum]

Treating the gender identity is also a treatment for depression and anxiety. You are desperate to find any reason to deny effective care for gender dysphoria other then psychotherapy.

Am I dismissed too?

More nothing. Outta the deep end of the pool for you.