Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

[Surface Detail]

This post is an expression of lamentable ignorance. In addition to my #1026, you should review this post to refresh your knowledge of the science.

Climate News / Solar
[h=1]Climate Change, due to Solar Variability or Greenhouse Gases? Part B.[/h]By Andy May In a previous post, Part A here, we discussed the role of oceans, the Earth’s orbit, and human greenhouse gas emissions on climate change. In this post we discuss the impact of solar variability. How does the Earth naturally respond to warmer temperatures? Clearly the Earth has been warming for the past…

But that article says nothing about Svensmark's theory and doesn't cite his work.

So I repeat: What evidence is there for any correlation at all between cloud cover and solar activity?

 

[Jack Hays]

But that article says nothing about Svensmark's theory and doesn't cite his work.

So I repeat: What evidence is there for any correlation at all between cloud cover and solar activity?

Please review my #1026.

Solar activity has a direct impact on Earth's cloud cover - Phys.org
https://phys.org › Earth › Earth Sciences

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Aug 25, 2016 · A team of scientists from the National Space Institute at the Technical University of Denmark (DTU Space) and the Racah Institute of Physics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem has linked ...

 

[Surface Detail]

Please review my #1026.

Solar activity has a direct impact on Earth's cloud cover - Phys.org
https://phys.org › Earth › Earth Sciences

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Aug 25, 2016 · A team of scientists from the National Space Institute at the Technical University of Denmark (DTU Space) and the Racah Institute of Physics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem has linked ...

From your link:

"The effect from Forbush decreases on clouds is too brief to have any impact on long-term temperature changes."

 

[Jack Hays]

From your link:

"The effect from Forbush decreases on clouds is too brief to have any impact on long-term temperature changes."

And continues:

However since clouds are affected by short term changes in galactic cosmic radiation, they may well also be affected by the slower change in Solar activity that happens on scales from tens to hundreds of years, and thus play a role in the radiation budget that determines the global temperature.
The Suns contribution to past and future climate change may thus be larger than merely the direct changes in radiation, concludes the scientists behind the new study.


Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2016-08-solar-impact-earth-cloud.html#jCp

 

[Jack Hays]

But that article says nothing about Svensmark's theory and doesn't cite his work.

So I repeat: What evidence is there for any correlation at all between cloud cover and solar activity?

The original:

Variation of cosmic ray flux and global cloud coverage—a missing link in solar-climate relationships - ScienceDirect
https://www.sciencedirect.com › pii

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by H Svensmark · 1997 · Cited by 1289 · Related articles
In the search for a physical mechanism that could account for reported correlations between solar activity parameters and climate, we have investigated the global cloud cover

 

[Surface Detail]

And continues:

However since clouds are affected by short term changes in galactic cosmic radiation, they may well also be affected by the slower change in Solar activity that happens on scales from tens to hundreds of years, and thus play a role in the radiation budget that determines the global temperature.
The Suns contribution to past and future climate change may thus be larger than merely the direct changes in radiation, concludes the scientists behind the new study.


Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2016-08-solar-impact-earth-cloud.html#jCp

So just conjecture then. No evidence at all.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Your confused posts give the impression that you have very little scientific understanding at all.

If variations in the solar magnetic field have any effect at all on cloud cover, then there should be some evidence of 11 or 22 year periodicity in cloud cover measurements. This is simply not observed. The cloud cover posted by Jack shows no indication whatsoever of any correlation between cloud cover and the solar cycle. Hence Svensmark's theory is disproved.

Actually there are several harmonics of the magnetic field as it traditions in the 22 year cycle. The signals are too short to see any primary effect. Again, the magnetic flux, as seen to the earth, is not a primary signal. We can expect no measurable change until we can remove the more significant changes of other variables.

Is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

 

[Surface Detail]

Actually there are several harmonics of the magnetic field as it traditions in the 22 year cycle. The signals are too short to see any primary effect. Again, the magnetic flux, as seen to the earth, is not a primary signal. We can expect no measurable change until we can remove the more significant changes of other variables.

Is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

There's nothing to comprehend. It's gobbledegook.

 

[Lord of Planar]

What is really pathetic, is we have people calling myself and others deniers.

I do not deny any of the sciences here. I am well versed in most the applicable sciences.

Then there are those who completely deny the possibility that anything outside of the IPCC Assessment reports might have merit. You guys, who ignore such possibilities, are the deniers. Deniers of science. Science required the never ending testing of assumed interactions, until there can be no invalid tests.

 

[Surface Detail]

What is really pathetic, is we have people calling myself and others deniers.

I do not deny any of the sciences here. I am well versed in most the applicable sciences.

Then there are those who completely deny the possibility that anything outside of the IPCC Assessment reports might have merit. You guys, who ignore such possibilities, are the deniers. Deniers of science. Science required the never ending testing of assumed interactions, until there can be no invalid tests.

Is there any chance that you could address the actual question and provide some evidence in support of Svensmark's hypothesis or, failing that, say something that makes some sort of sense?

 

[Threegoofs]

Actually there are several harmonics of the magnetic field as it traditions in the 22 year cycle. The signals are too short to see any primary effect. Again, the magnetic flux, as seen to the earth, is not a primary signal. We can expect no measurable change until we can remove the more significant changes of other variables.

Is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

Translation:

We can’t see it or measure it, but trust me, it’s real.

 

[Threegoofs]

What is really pathetic, is we have people calling myself and others deniers.

I do not deny any of the sciences here. I am well versed in most the applicable sciences.

Then there are those who completely deny the possibility that anything outside of the IPCC Assessment reports might have merit. You guys, who ignore such possibilities, are the deniers. Deniers of science. Science required the never ending testing of assumed interactions, until there can be no invalid tests.

Congrats on your high school education.

 

[Jack Hays]

Is there any chance that you could address the actual question and provide some evidence in support of Svensmark's hypothesis or, failing that, say something that makes some sort of sense?

COSMIC RAYS, CLOUDS, AND CLIMATE. 1. Introduction The sun is a variable star, which emits both electromagnetic radiation and ...
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org › ...

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by N MARSH · Cited by 296 · Related articles
Abstract. A correlation between a global average of low cloud cover and the flux of cosmic rays in- cident in the atmosphere has been observed during the last solar cycle. The ionising potential of Earth bound cosmic rays ...

 

[Jack Hays]

So just conjecture then. No evidence at all.

You seem to have missed the point. The principle was upheld.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Is there any chance that you could address the actual question and provide some evidence in support of Svensmark's hypothesis or, failing that, say something that makes some sort of sense?

Well, I'm not concerned with what he says, but know there is at least a small effect. I focus on the areas I know are significant like soot, solar, TSI, and land use. I have done very little research dealing with the cosmic rays and cloud formation, but what little I have tells me it's real. I simple don't see it as important as other factors. I'm not about to do your homework in justifying my agreement with it. I have far more important things to do than try to convince you of sciences you will deny anyway.

Is it your position that cosmic rays have no effect?

If so, you truly are a denier of science.

 

[Jack Hays]

Well, I'm not concerned with what he says, but know there is at least a small effect. I focus on the areas I know are significant like soot, solar, TSI, and land use. I have done very little research dealing with the cosmic rays and cloud formation, but what little I have tells me it's real. I simple don't see it as important as other factors. I'm not about to do your homework in justifying my agreement with it. I have far more important things to do than try to convince you of sciences you will deny anyway.

Is it your position that cosmic rays have no effect?

If so, you truly are a denier of science.

The usual AGW advocate approach is to create a dumbed-down straw man Svensmark and then refute that. That's certainly SD's modus operandi. He wants nothing to do with the real Svensmark.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The usual AGW advocate approach is to create a dumbed-down straw man Svensmark and then refute that. That's certainly SD's modus operandi. He wants nothing to do with the real Svensmark.

I simply don't understand how these people, who disregard actual science practices, think they have any integrity in debating a science related topic.

 

[Tim the plumber]

I simply don't understand how these people, who disregard actual science practices, think they have any integrity in debating a science related topic.

The thing is that they never understood the idea of science at all ever.

To them the magicain is the same as a scientist. They never did the thinking for themselves bit. It was too hard. They got through by memorizing lots and spluging it all out in the exam.

This got them qualifications. They thus have more confidence in themselves than they should have.

So explaining it to them will never work. They have been told by those they have placed their faith in. End of story.

 

[Threegoofs]

The thing is that they never understood the idea of science at all ever.

To them the magicain is the same as a scientist. They never did the thinking for themselves bit. It was too hard. They got through by memorizing lots and spluging it all out in the exam.

This got them qualifications. They thus have more confidence in themselves than they should have.

So explaining it to them will never work. They have been told by those they have placed their faith in. End of story.

Yet... all the main scientific societies would agree with our views and laugh at yours.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The thing is that they never understood the idea of science at all ever.

To them the magicain is the same as a scientist. They never did the thinking for themselves bit. It was too hard. They got through by memorizing lots and spluging it all out in the exam.

This got them qualifications. They thus have more confidence in themselves than they should have.

So explaining it to them will never work. They have been told by those they have placed their faith in. End of story.

Sad, but true. Education these last few decades is appalling.

 

[Jack Hays]

Climate News / Emergence / Emergent Climate Phenomena
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[Jack Hays]

[h=1]Inconvenient: Plateau In Global Ocean Temperatures Persists[/h]Ron Clutz writes at Science Matters: Years ago, Dr. Roger Pielke Sr. explained why sea surface temperatures (SST) were the best indicator of heat content gained or lost from earth’s climate system. Enthalpy is the thermodynamic term for total heat content in a system, and humidity differences in air parcels affect enthalpy. Measuring water temperature…

 

[Sunsettommy]

Climate News / Emergence / Emergent Climate Phenomena
[h=1]Clouds and El Nino[/h]Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach After the turn of the century, I became interested in climate science. But unlike almost everyone else, I wasn’t surprised by how much the global temperature was changing. As someone with experience with heat engines and engine governors, I know how hard it is to keep a heat engine stable…

What is so good about this presentation is how little CO2 is involved in the process.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Climate News / Emergence / Emergent Climate Phenomena
[h=1]Clouds and El Nino[/h]Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach After the turn of the century, I became interested in climate science. But unlike almost everyone else, I wasn’t surprised by how much the global temperature was changing. As someone with experience with heat engines and engine governors, I know how hard it is to keep a heat engine stable…

I just read the guest post. Some amazing ideas that make perfect sense. I'm going to look more into his ideas.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Climate News / Emergence / Emergent Climate Phenomena
[h=1]Clouds and El Nino[/h]Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach After the turn of the century, I became interested in climate science. But unlike almost everyone else, I wasn’t surprised by how much the global temperature was changing. As someone with experience with heat engines and engine governors, I know how hard it is to keep a heat engine stable…

So I started my climate science investigations by looking for some kind of long-term mechanism that would keep the temperature stable. I read about the slow weathering of the mountains that constrains the CO2 levels.

That would be O2 levels.

CO2 is reduced by deposition of limestone on the sea bed.