Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school[W:203]

[EnigmaO01]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/25/us/indiana-school-shots-fired/index.html

Another day. Another shooting. The carnage continues.

But hey by God we have the freedumb to keep our AR-15s!

 

[EnigmaO01]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

School shooting are happening far to often.

Time for the government to fund better and more security for all of our schools in the US.

Time for our lawmakers to help with a multifaceted solution to reduce school shootings.

Why would they do that if they are whoring for the NRA?

 

[Gina]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

Moderator's Warning:

Once again folks. The topic is the event in the news story. 1. It's not the NRA. 2. It's not gun control (confiscation, registration or anything else related to controlling guns) 3. It's not 2a. If you want to discuss the story from that POV, go start at thread in the Gun Control forum, or find one. Also, baiting, flaming and personal comments need to stop. Thread bans at the least for those who can't abide. *Moderation is still possible on posts made before this warning. **Thread closed for a couple minutes so folks can absorb the warning.

 

[Gina]

Moderator's Warning:

Re-opened. Please abide by the warning.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

Are you seriously proposing this country get rid of all of its public schools? Yeah, okay. That will literally NEVER happen. And I assure you the shooters will start shooting up public libraries, gyms, concerts, malls.... please tell me what do we do then? Just sit at home all day long? Be realistic.


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Agree. Home school will not solve the problem of mass shootings. I already go out and public and worry about shootings. I worry for kids I know in school. Home schooling would not fix society.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

They can be home schooled after work and be left assignments while the parent is working. Your just making excuses

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I think it would be a lot of work to work full time and home school a kid.

 

[LadyMoonlight]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

The NRA is a terrorist organization.

The NRA pays people to shoot people, like terrorists organisations such as Hamas does? The NRA wants people to shoot other people, so that...what, exactly? so most Americans will turn against them...yeah, that makes sense. As a non-American, please explain how the NRA does terrorism, thanks.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

I think it would be a lot of work to work full time and home school a kid.

So your saying it's better to infringe on other people's rights than expect parents to be responsible for their children?

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[Nap]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

Did see one post recently wondering why we dont see these shootings at private schools.

Alot of these shootings take place in mid to upper-class suburban schools...what is the factor that's different for private schools?

I keep asking how and why our society is creating these losers in increasing numbers. Now a valid question seems to be...why dont any of them go to private school OR what differences are private schools making?

--Security?
--Less bullying?
--More attention to students/identifying problem kids?
--What can be different about the parents?

I think this is the most likely of reasons for the difference. Parents that send their children to private schools are more active and interested in the development of their children so are more likely to notice and/or care about signs of mental illness.

I believe social media is one of the driving factors in the increase in number of shootings. Before social media bullying were isolated incidents with few witnesses so the level of embarrassment was not nearly at the level they are now where the texts/tweets are now reaching the entire school instantly. Now not only are the insults more out in the open but permanently out there for display for everyone.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

That's a bad idea for much the same reasons for why flight attendants don't carry guns. First because it becomes easy to figure out who has a gun. Second because the nature of job requires you to work in close proximity to people that dramatically heightens the risk of you being grabbed and quickly overpowered and so then if the attacker didn't have a gun before, he does now. Third accidental discharges within enclosed areas where there are a density of people gathered within it are likely to be consequential.

More limited thinking.

--there are thumbprint gun safes that could go under a teacher's desk, or in a drawer. Kids, parents, etc wouldnt even have to know which teachers **voluntarily** were qualified and part of the school's defense plan.

--a teacher is the only one that can protect that classroom *immediately* if a shooter comes to the door.

--schools already have active shooter plans where kids hide in a certain part of the classroom, sheltering in place.

--an armed teacher does not need a great deal of training to be able to defend the doorway. It wont be more than 20 feet. Teacher does not even have to hit the shooter...shooting AT the doorway is likely to discourage the shooter to go elsewhere. In any case, a doorway, if shooter breaks thru door, is an easy target to defend where the shooter would be exposed. Teacher can use desk for cover, a good expense would be hardening desks to actually be bullet-resistent.

--kids would not be in danger from teacher shooting, they would be out of the way in designated 'shelter in place' area.

--teachers who volunteer for this, complying with school policies, would likely be highly committed. Many teachers are. Many have already given their lives sheltering their students with their bodies. Such commitment would enable teachers to shoot to defend students' lives.

People have been working on this and some states, like Utah, allow teachers to carry in the classroom.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

Some more interesting questions are : why aren’t these mass school shooting taking place in poorer or rulural school districts?
Why aren’t angry black teens school shooters?

Why is it the white male that shoots classmates and teachers at school during the school hours?

——Security ?

——Less bullying?

—-more attention to students/identifying problem kids?

—-What can be different about the parents?

It is almost exclusively Caucasian males, adults and teens. Some Latinos, some of Arab descent. A few Native Americans.

Of those ethnic groups I listed, only Native Americans are generally not classified as Caucasian.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

I think this is the most likely of reasons for the difference. Parents that send their children to private schools are more active and interested in the development of their children so are more likely to notice and/or care about signs of mental illness.

I believe social media is one of the driving factors in the increase in number of shootings. Before social media bullying were isolated incidents with few witnesses so the level of embarrassment was not nearly at the level they are now where the texts/tweets are now reaching the entire school instantly. Now not only are the insults more out in the open but permanently out there for display for everyone.

I dont agree with the bold...I would need to see more evidence of that than just sending them to private schools. It may be correct but I dont see it as enough at this point.

And yes IMO social media does exacerbate the effects of social alienation that these teens feel.

 

[holbritter]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

Some more interesting questions are : why aren’t these mass school shooting taking place in poorer or rulural school districts?
Why aren’t angry black teens school shooters?

Why is it the white male that shoots classmates and teachers at school during the school hours?

——Security ?

——Less bullying?

—-more attention to students/identifying problem kids?

—-What can be different about the parents?

That's your opinion on what's a more interesting question. I think it's more interesting to know the reason why this doesn't happen at private schools.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

I dont agree with the bold...I would need to see more evidence of that than just sending them to private schools. It may be correct but I dont see it as enough at this point.

And yes IMO social media does exacerbate the effects of social alienation that these teens feel.

We also need to remember that over 91 percent of our school age children K-12 attend public schools vs less tha 9 percent attending private schools.

Also rural public schools don’t seem to be target.

It may be that something as simple smaller high schools is part of the answer.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

That's your opinion on what's a more interesting question. I think it's more interesting to know the reason why this doesn't happen at private schools.

As I said in another post, it doesn’t seem to happen in rural high schools either.

Perhaps something as simple as having smaller high schools is part of the answer.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

As I said in another post, it doesn’t seem to happen in rural high schools either.

Perhaps something as simple as having smaller high schools is part of the answer.

One of the basic sad and dirty truths about education is that many of our schools - especially high schools - are far far too large with just too many people in them. It is easy to point to studies which conclude that smaller schools are better but we allow economics to rule the roost in this matter and thus economy of scale is king.

https://ilsr.org/rule/small-schools-vs-big-schools/

https://www.communityworksinstitute.org/cwjonline/essays/a_essaystext/grauer_smallsch1.html

 

[minnie616]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

One of the basic sad and dirty truths about education is that many of our schools - especially high schools - are far far too large with just too many people in them. It is easy to point to studies which conclude that smaller schools are better but we allow economics to rule the roost in this matter and thus economy of scale is king.

https://ilsr.org/rule/small-schools-vs-big-schools/


https://www.communityworksinstitute.org/cwjonline/essays/a_essaystext/grauer_smallsch1.html

I fully agree.

From the first article in your link:

One of the most effective ways to improve student achievement and curb school violence is to reduce the size of the nation’s schools. Hundreds of studies have found that students who attend small schools outperform those in large schools on every academic measure from grades to test scores. They are less likely to dropout and more likely to attend college.

Small schools also build strong communities. Parents and neighbors are more likely to be actively involved in the school. The students benefit from community support and the school in turn fosters connections among neighbors and encourages civic participation.

...


Althoughthe empirical research in support of smaller schools is extensive, the trend toward ever larger schools continues. Over the last decade, the number of high schools with more than 1,500 students doubled. Two-fifths of the nation’s secondary schools now enroll more than 1,000 students. This trend has largely been driven by public policy.

https://ilsr.org/rule/small-schools-vs-big-schools/

 

[haymarket]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

I fully agree.

From the first article in your link:



https://ilsr.org/rule/small-schools-vs-big-schools/

Sadly, it is money and finances that are the primary decision elements in most of public education. This begins with the factory system where we simply accept that every student of a particular age is at the same level and learns at the same speed and at the same way and will grow at the same pace for twelve long years. We assume that this system will produce educated people at the end of that twelve years. Sadly, anyone who has spent any time looking into it knows that this is a lie and does not work well for tens of millions of students who simply do not learn the same way or at the same speed or by the same methods as the majority do. But we refuse to abandon the factory model because of economics.

School size is the same and those studies clearly demonstrate that.

 

[NoParty]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

The rest of the developed world laughs at this idea. They have the solution. We are just blind to it

The rest of the world doesn’t have a Mexico on their border. Anything we ban, they smuggle in.

 

[Crosscheck]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

That's your opinion on what's a more interesting question. I think it's more interesting to know the reason why this doesn't happen at private schools.

One must also take into consideration that only 10% of US students are in private schools.

Am surprised this thread has gone so long debating why we don't see more shooting events at private schools...…. It is because private k-12 are a very low minority, 9 out of 10 kids are in public schools.

Perhaps we need to look at that fact that there has not been one albino shooter in any school shooting?

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

So your saying it's better to infringe on other people's rights than expect parents to be responsible for their children?

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I didn't say guns should be banned, just that your solution is nonsense.

 

[Nap]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

I dont agree with the bold...I would need to see more evidence of that than just sending them to private schools. It may be correct but I dont see it as enough at this point.

And yes IMO social media does exacerbate the effects of social alienation that these teens feel.

It is simple logic, if you are paying for a service you would otherwise get for free or cheaper then that means you care more about the quality of the service rendered. If parents didn't care more about the quality of their children's education they would simply send them to public school as they are already paying for that through taxes.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

It is simple logic, if you are paying for a service you would otherwise get for free or cheaper then that means you care more about the quality of the service rendered. If parents didn't care more about the quality of their children's education they would simply send them to public school as they are already paying for that through taxes.

I disagree.

I kept my Dylexic and disgraphia son in public school because I cared about his quality of education.

I looked into the certification of the teachers who taught at the private schools and the public school.
I wanted my son to get the extra help he needed for his dyslexia and disgraphia and felt the public schools offered much more than the private schools. The public schools had individual education plans. My son was mainstreamed and in his class had a special ed aid to help ( she also helped other classroom students , not just those with special needs ) In middle and high one class period was spend with a resource room teacher who helped make sure theyy understood and did their homework ,etc. Since my sons handwritting and spelling were not legible she had him answer any essay test question orally and she wrote the answers he gave her.

My son graduated on the honor roll and went onto college and got his associates degree and a degree in culinary arts. He is in his 30s now. He is a husband and a father of a preschooler. His wife is a stay at home mom. He owns a 4 bedroom , 3 bath newer home in middle class subdivision.

Very often the best quality of service is the public school.

 

[trouble13]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

I didn't say guns should be banned, just that your solution is nonsense.

Because expecting parents to put in the time and work to raise their children is nonsense. Yet people are screaming for the parents head on a stick because it was their gun he got a hold of. You can't have it both ways. If you want go take raising your child out of the parents hands and into the government's than don't blame the parents when the kid turns out broken.

There is a serious problem in this country with broken family units and absentee parents. The gov plays a big part in causing the problem. If these kids had a stay at home parent who took an activd interest in what's going on in their kids lives a lot of these problems would go away. Schools need to stay out of teaching morality. They suck at it.

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[j-mac]

Re: Suspect in custody after shots fired at Indiana middle school

I disagree.

I kept my Dylexic and disgraphia son in public school because I cared about his quality of education.

I looked into the certification of the teachers who taught at the private schools and the public school.
I wanted my son to get the extra help he needed for his dyslexia and disgraphia and felt the public schools offered much more than the private schools. The public schools had individual education plans. My son was mainstreamed and in his class had a special ed aid to help ( she also helped other classroom students , not just those with special needs ) In middle and high one class period was spend with a resource room teacher who helped make sure theyy understood and did their homework ,etc. Since my sons handwritting and spelling were not legible she had him answer any essay test question orally and she wrote the answers he gave her.

My son graduated on the honor roll and went onto college and got his associates degree and a degree in culinary arts. He is in his 30s now. He is a husband and a father of a preschooler. His wife is a stay at home mom. He owns a 4 bedroom , 3 bath newer home in middle class subdivision.

Very often the best quality of service is the public school.

Special needs education is expensive especially if a family is paying for it out of pocket....Might help if a family decided to get their child private education, if there were some kind of credit against taxes already paid toward public education that they could use for that.