Supreme Court turns away challenge to California ban on 'gay conversion' therapy

[TheGoverness]

Article Here.

The Supreme Court has refused to overturn a ban on "gay conversion" therapy, and Democratic lawmakers recently introduced a bill that attempts to ban the practice at the national level — both legal moves that have advocates cheering.

The Supreme Court declined to hear a case Monday challenging California's ban on gay conversion therapy. Because a lower court ruled in California's favor, the ban will remain in place.

The decision comes after years of legal proceedings against California's 2012 law, which outlawed state-licensed medical professionals from performing "gay conversion" therapy to change a minor's sexual orientation.

The Supreme Court previously refused to hear an appeal in 2014, rejecting claims that the law infringed on free speech. In a 2012 challenge, conversion therapy supporters challenged the law on the grounds of religious freedom. The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in favor of the state in both cases.

"Now more than ever, we must send a clear message to the LGBTQ community — and especially LGBTQ young people — that who you are is not something that needs to be fixed," Human Rights Campaign president Chad Griffin said in a statement praising the bill.

:applaud :applaud :applaud

Good decision. Gay conversion "therapy" causes nothing but harm; perpetuating the false idea that you can somehow "change" someone's sexuality. These fraudulent medical practices don't do anything, but bring about unnessecary pain and suffering.

We don't need "help" or "fixing" for who we are; you don't need "fixing" for being gay. The only people that need "fixing" are the ones that act like this is a legitimate medical practice.

 

[celticwar17]

Article Here.





:applaud :applaud :applaud

Good decision. Gay conversion "therapy" causes nothing but harm; perpetuating the false idea that you can somehow "change" someone's sexuality. These fraudulent medical practices don't do anything, but bring about unnessecary pain and suffering.

We don't need "help" or "fixing" for who we are; you don't need "fixing" for being gay. The only people that need "fixing" are the ones that act like this is a legitimate medical practice.

I'm curious.... what if people wanted "fixing"?

 

[Fishking]

How is it not a violation of the 1st Amendment?

 

[Ikari]

Article Here.





:applaud :applaud :applaud

Good decision. Gay conversion "therapy" causes nothing but harm; perpetuating the false idea that you can somehow "change" someone's sexuality. These fraudulent medical practices don't do anything, but bring about unnessecary pain and suffering.

We don't need "help" or "fixing" for who we are; you don't need "fixing" for being gay. The only people that need "fixing" are the ones that act like this is a legitimate medical practice.

Then why am I making this microwave un-gay ray?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I'm curious.... what if people wanted "fixing"?

I think the CA law applies only to minors. Not adults

 

[TheGoverness]

I'm curious.... what if people wanted "fixing"?

Well this law applies specifically towards minors.

EDIT: EMN beat me to it.

 

[Winston]

I'm curious.... what if people wanted "fixing"?

Go to the Land of Mike Pence for electroshock therapy and playboy centerfold powerpoints.

 

[OlNate]

I'm curious.... what if people wanted "fixing"?

I think given the nature of the being gay, they would have to demonstrate scientifically that they can really "fix" them...which, of course, would require proof that being gay can be "fixed", which would be tricky because being gay doesn't mean being "broken". So, essentially, these people would be changing who they are to conform to religious beliefs or expectations of others...which is pretty heart breaking, when you think about it.

But getting away from that aspect, because different people believe different things, it comes down to: does the therapy work? If it can't be proven to work, then it should be classified as fraud, which we need to be protected from where possible. For example, if a person claimed to be able to restore a blind person's vision by applying, I dunno, mayonnaise, and charged a ton of money to do it, we'd say that person was a fraudster, and put them out of business. Basically, if there's a promise of a "cure", that should be demonstrated to the same standards as anything else claiming to be a cure, and that requires science. I'm not sure the science is in support of gay conversion therapy.

5 Things You Should Know About Gay Conversion Therapy

 

[Winston]

Article Here.





:applaud :applaud :applaud

Good decision. Gay conversion "therapy" causes nothing but harm; perpetuating the false idea that you can somehow "change" someone's sexuality. These fraudulent medical practices don't do anything, but bring about unnessecary pain and suffering.

We don't need "help" or "fixing" for who we are; you don't need "fixing" for being gay. The only people that need "fixing" are the ones that act like this is a legitimate medical practice.

Isn't it interesting to observe a stark contrast between the White House and the nation. In terms of the President's agenda, not matching up with what would be considered the "moderate" voter position and much of the White House agenda being blocked in Congress and the Federal court system.

For example, Mike Pence hates Planned Parenthood. He thinks they're baby death factories. But, the moderate position of Planned Parenthood is quite favorable. If Trump can be shaken from his reverie about Ivanka, retweets, and Fox News, he would say, "What? Oh yeah, I mean no, PP, no, but maybe, no."

So, in terms of the Muslim ban being blocked, the Wall defunded, PP funded, the AHCA crashing and burning, and now gay conversion therapy ban upheld, it's refreshing to see that federal judges and the people do not support ignorance.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

How is it not a violation of the 1st Amendment?

I don't think child abuse is protected by the 1st Amendment.

 

[TheGoverness]

I don't think child abuse is protected by the 1st Amendment.

Correct. People have tried to use that excuse before, didn't work out for them in court.

 

[Fishking]

I don't think child abuse is protected by the 1st Amendment.

Well, what's involved in conversion therapy that makes it child abuse?

 

[chromium]

That's nice but unfortunately this only upholds the bans in the handful of states that have decided that gay youth have rights

 

[RAMOSS]

I'm curious.... what if people wanted "fixing"?

If they are over 18, they can make a choice for themselves. However, it can not be forced upon a minor. The rate of success is actually just about zero, with a high amount of suicides from people going through it.

 

[RAMOSS]

Well, what's involved in conversion therapy that makes it child abuse?

Depends on the group.. but one common method is aversion therapy, where they use electroshock and homoerotic images to try to associate the electric shock with homosexual attraction.

In some of the 'pray the gay' away camps, (This actually happened to someone I know), they also 'baptized' folks by dunking them in water, to the point of almost drowning. The one person I know that went through that was in a camp with 12 other people.. and when I knew her it was about 15 years later, and a good 7 of the 13 people had died already, from either over doses from drugs or suicide.

Mind you, from what I gather she had a more extreme experience than most, but the suicide rate among people who went through it was rather high, even the less extreme ones.

 

[Fishking]

Depends on the group.. but one common method is aversion therapy, where they use electroshock and homoerotic images to try to associate the electric shock with homosexual attraction.

I see this claim being thrown out but it sounds like an urban legend to me. Is there established documentation for this or is this like a "one dude did this thing and now we say that's what it is"?

 

[RAMOSS]

I see this claim being thrown out but it sounds like an urban legend to me. Is there established documentation for this or is this like a "one dude did this thing and now we say that's what it is"?

Well, there is the wiki article on itl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy. It includes the aversion therapy.

And , like I said, I know someone who went through it when she was 15. I have not reason to think she lied to me.

And here is another source that specifically mentions it. Conversion Therapy They said 'as late as the 1970's'.. but the person I know experienced the electroshock aversion therapy in the mid 90's.

There are a lot of things out there that sounds like 'urban legends' until you get independent verification.

 

[lurchadams]

Article Here.





:applaud :applaud :applaud

Good decision. Gay conversion "therapy" causes nothing but harm; perpetuating the false idea that you can somehow "change" someone's sexuality. These fraudulent medical practices don't do anything, but bring about unnessecary pain and suffering.

We don't need "help" or "fixing" for who we are; you don't need "fixing" for being gay. The only people that need "fixing" are the ones that act like this is a legitimate medical practice.

I read that Mike Pence, our VP is an advocate of "pray the gay away". Isn't that "special"?

 

[Fishking]

Well, there is the wiki article on itl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy. It includes the aversion therapy.

And , like I said, I know someone who went through it when she was 15. I have not reason to think she lied to me.

And here is another source that specifically mentions it. Conversion Therapy They said 'as late as the 1970's'.. but the person I know experienced the electroshock aversion therapy in the mid 90's.

There are a lot of things out there that sounds like 'urban legends' until you get independent verification.

Just seems so weird to me, like something that doesn't really exist on any real scale. It's like saying snake handlers are a big thing. Some small % of a % do some electroshock stuff. I can see most of the "conversion therapy" being more about trying to use prayer and counseling as the method primarily used. I'll even say that a lot of the counseling probably is toxic and coercive/destructive/negative in nature.

I remember finding a website for a church years ago (which I could remember what it was) that was for LGBTQ and they had basically two groups of thought in the church members. One group said that the reading of the Bible is wrong and did make a pretty good case for it. The other group said that this was their struggle (everyone has their own struggles) to deal with and that their option was to basically be celibate.

I've had my own hair-brained theory that Paul was gay and it puts an interesting perspective on some of his writings.

Anyways, I don't think the electroshock thing really is a thing, aside from some obscure something you find off in the corners. All that stuff definitely falls under the abuse category but teaching the doctrines of your faith and how to move forward keeping those things in mind isn't abuse, imo.

 

[Fishking]

I read that Mike Pence, our VP is an advocate of "pray the gay away". Isn't that "special"?

Nah...I tracked that down the Mike Pence being for conversion therapy all the way back to the source and it's not true. Iirc, it was something about not funding groups/clinics that supported/encouraged homosexual lifestyles.

 

[iguanaman]

I'm curious.... what if people wanted "fixing"?

Then they are not really gay and don't need "therapy" either except maybe a psychiatrist to hep them understand why they pretended to be gay.

 

[CLAX1911]

Well, what's involved in conversion therapy that makes it child abuse?

Administering so-called "treatment" with absolutely no idea whether it will work or not.

Before you go monkeying around in the brains of delicate people you should really have some Theory first.

 

[CLAX1911]

Just seems so weird to me, like something that doesn't really exist on any real scale. It's like saying snake handlers are a big thing. Some small % of a % do some electroshock stuff. I can see most of the "conversion therapy" being more about trying to use prayer and counseling as the method primarily used. I'll even say that a lot of the counseling probably is toxic and coercive/destructive/negative in nature.

you wouldn't consider toxic coercive or destructive "terapy" abuse?

I don't really care if you sell a pray the gay away camp to neurotic parents. But that's Faith healing not therapy.

I remember finding a website for a church years ago (which I could remember what it was) that was for LGBTQ and they had basically two groups of thought in the church members. One group said that the reading of the Bible is wrong and did make a pretty good case for it. The other group said that this was their struggle (everyone has their own struggles) to deal with and that their option was to basically be celibate.

I've had my own hair-brained theory that Paul was gay and it puts an interesting perspective on some of his writings.

Anyways, I don't think the electroshock thing really is a thing, aside from some obscure something you find off in the corners. All that stuff definitely falls under the abuse category but teaching the doctrines of your faith and how to move forward keeping those things in mind isn't abuse, imo.

It most certainly isn't therapy. I don't think any government agency can stop you from Faith healing. But they can bust you for fraud when you call it therapy.

 

[RAMOSS]

Just seems so weird to me, like something that doesn't really exist on any real scale. It's like saying snake handlers are a big thing. Some small % of a % do some electroshock stuff. I can see most of the "conversion therapy" being more about trying to use prayer and counseling as the method primarily used. I'll even say that a lot of the counseling probably is toxic and coercive/destructive/negative in nature.

I remember finding a website for a church years ago (which I could remember what it was) that was for LGBTQ and they had basically two groups of thought in the church members. One group said that the reading of the Bible is wrong and did make a pretty good case for it. The other group said that this was their struggle (everyone has their own struggles) to deal with and that their option was to basically be celibate.

I've had my own hair-brained theory that Paul was gay and it puts an interesting perspective on some of his writings.

Anyways, I don't think the electroshock thing really is a thing, aside from some obscure something you find off in the corners. All that stuff definitely falls under the abuse category but teaching the doctrines of your faith and how to move forward keeping those things in mind isn't abuse, imo.

I am pretty such that for the most part, it has fallen out of favor. However, the statistics still show that children forced to go through conversion therapy have a higher suicide rate. Although electroshock is out of favor, other aversion techniques are supposed to be still being used, to the detriment of the people forced into it.

There is enough documented harm being done that I have to approve of the ban of conversion therapy on minors.

 

[Fishking]

you wouldn't consider toxic coercive or destructive "terapy" abuse?

I don't really care if you sell a pray the gay away camp to neurotic parents. But that's Faith healing not therapy.

It most certainly isn't therapy. I don't think any government agency can stop you from Faith healing. But they can bust you for fraud when you call it therapy.

I don't disagree. It's not therapy in the medical sense.