"Supreme Court says we get a free ticket to discriminate "

[PoliSciPulse]

We can split hairs all we want, but let me add this to the conservation. As a gay/bisexual man:
1) Every time I don't go to church, do I discriminate against it because the church doesn't hold my values?
2) If I walk into a bakery and see too many crosses and leave, am I discriminating against the baker?
3) If a Christian baker said he would bake me a a cake, but it wouldn't be good because his heart wouldn't be in it and instead refers to to a secular baker down the road, has he discriminated against me?
4) If a straight guy refuses my flirting because he's, well, straight, has he discriminated against me?

The problem is we're dealing with -individuals- vs. -corporations.- And what has never been explained properly is where the role of the corporation ends and the role of the individual begins.

 

[weaver2]

I doubt they’ve given you permission to speak on their beliefs. The law ALSO guarantees the right to practice ones religion - That’s in the Constitution; I can’t find backing a cake anywhere.

I am not speaking on anyones behalf. I'm speaking about the law. Running a business isn't practicing one's religion. Baking cakes is not practicing religion. Baking a cake for what the baker considered an obscene ceremony does not make the baker a sinner.

There is a perfectly easy way around the bakers problem. The same one used by book stores that sell bibles, religious philosophy, and religious articles. They call themselves "Christian Book Stores". Nobody goes in there and complains about not being able to buy Policeman's Gazette.

All of the moral objection laws should be tossed out. The religious right is simply using them as a power play.

 

[Bullseye]

I am not speaking on anyones behalf. I'm speaking about the law. Running a business isn't practicing one's religion. Baking cakes is not practicing religion. Baking a cake for what the baker considered an obscene ceremony does not make the baker a sinner.

That's not your call.

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There is a perfectly easy way around the bakers problem. The same one used by book stores that sell bibles, religious philosophy, and religious articles. They call themselves "Christian Book Stores". Nobody goes in there and complains about not being able to buy Policeman's Gazette.

All of the moral objection laws should be tossed out. The religious right is simply using them as a power play.

Or, go to another baker. What a revolutionary idea, huh! The word will get around about the other baker and he may lose business. It's call the free market at work.

 

[weaver2]

That's not your call.

Yes it is. Every citizen can make the call when religion is trying to be the tail wagging the dog.

Or, go to another baker. What a revolutionary idea, huh! The word will get around about the other baker and he may lose business. It's call the free market at work.

And why should the baker expect the world pass around the word that he is a religious bigot? Post it for all to see. "I only bake cakes for Christian non-sinners" "I only sell contraceptives of nice married women not to sluts" "I only do flowers for those I will allow into my heaven"

You wanna sell stuff, and you want the city to keep your sidewalk clear of snow, swept of trash, police the street for bums, keep the downtown decorated with flowers, keep parking open and moving by issuing tickets to overtime parkers, supply sewer systems that can handle businesses. OK then don't be an asshole about customers and pretend they are causing you to sin.

 

[Bullseye]

Yes it is. Every citizen can make the call when religion is trying to be the tail wagging the dog.

Nope.

And why should the baker expect the world pass around the word that he is a religious bigot? Post it for all to see. "I only bake cakes for Christian non-sinners" "I only sell contraceptives of nice married women not to sluts" "I only do flowers for those I will allow into my heaven"

Ever heard of social media? A gay couple that gets turned down has friends, accounts, etc. to that the word around.

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You wanna sell stuff, and you want the city to keep your sidewalk clear of snow, swept of trash, police the street for bums, keep the downtown decorated with flowers, keep parking open and moving by issuing tickets to overtime parkers, supply sewer systems that can handle businesses. OK then don't be an asshole about customers and pretend they are causing you to sin.

You forgot one: You want to exercise your religion freely as guaranteed by the Constitution. Oh, and I'm pretty sure the bakery pays taxes for those "benefits" you listed.

 

[weaver2]

Nope.

Yup, read the law.

Ever heard of social media? A gay couple that gets turned down has friends, accounts, etc. to that the word around.

Nope, you want to be a bigot you gotta put it on a sign outside your business. "No Irish need apply"

You forgot one: You want to exercise your religion freely as guaranteed by the Constitution. Oh, and I'm pretty sure the bakery pays taxes for those "benefits" you listed.

Jack Phillips was not exercising his religion. He was trying a power play called "my religion is more powerful that the law" and the SC told him to follow Colorado law. You will note that the Masterpiece Cake Shop doesn't make wedding cakes anymore.

As far as taxes every one in town also supports those same taxes and they don't want bigots in their down town. Put up a sign outside your shop or quit pretending your religion gives you special permission to be a bigot.

 

[Bullseye]

Yup, read the law.

Nope, you want to be a bigot you gotta put it on a sign outside your business. "No Irish need apply"

Jack Phillips was not exercising his religion. He was trying a power play called "my religion is more powerful that the law" and the SC told him to follow Colorado law. You will note that the Masterpiece Cake Shop doesn't make wedding cakes anymore.

As far as taxes every one in town also supports those same taxes and they don't want bigots in their down town. Put up a sign outside your shop or quit pretending your religion gives you special permission to be a bigot.

Ok, not worth further discussion.

 

[iguanaman]

I personally would have thought Freedom of association would have given that right. Why should one be forced to do business with someone they do not wish to be associated with? I never understood why someone would want to do business with someone that would discriminate against them in the first place.

Freedom of association is about private lives. When you own a public business and offer a product you must accept anyone's money for that product. That is what a public business means. You serve the public. Too many seem to think it is the other way around.

 

[PoliSciPulse]

I also thought freedom of association was that you could be friends with say, a bank robber, and you wouldn't be held accountable for their actions? No guilt by association type of a thing.

 

[weaver2]

Ok, not worth further discussion.

So what was it that decide you not to discuss further? The part where the SC said Mr. Phillips had to follow Colorado law and not discriminate?

 

[Logophile]

Someone posted this on another forum: ""the Constitution and Supreme Court means we get a free ticket to discriminate against people we don't like (see: Masterpiece Cake shop case).

Do conservative Christians really believe that the phrase "nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof " in the First Amendment of the Constitution and the Supreme Court's decision in the Masterpiece Cake case both mean they have the right to discriminate against gays and other "people we don't like"?

Why attack "conservative Christians??" Are you any less culpable?? If some guy kicked your dog outside your diner, do you want the right to say "I' not serving you coffee??" I do. Thanks!!

 

[danielpalos]

That's not your call.

Or, go to another baker. What a revolutionary idea, huh! The word will get around about the other baker and he may lose business. It's call the free market at work.

Same thing with abortion. It is not the legislature's call. They have no moral standing due to our First Amendment and State equivalents.