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Study finds that single-payer saves money

veritas1 said:
Yea, single payer saves money. (in theory) You always save money by scrimping and giving people substandard, s****y care. It's like wanting the VA model for your healthcare system. No thanks.
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yeah people think they are going to get private rooms and conceirge service.
i have seen national healthcare medicine. it is about 200 people waiting in a hospital lobby
all wanting to see a doctor and people lined up out the door waiting.
 
Moderate Right said:
You are talking about total costs. MFA would bankrupt the government because even though the overall costs would be less, the government would basically be paying 100% of the costs while right now individuals pay a good share of the cost. And, with the government in control, the horrors of a single payer system would soon take root.
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That’s not how it was worked out anywhere else. Why should it be different here?

Here is the latest example:

Thailand gave healthcare to its entire population and the results were dramatic | World Economic Forum
 
Lisa said:
What part of Medicare for all confuses you? Is Medicare the same as the VA?
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Medicare for all will never happen. It is an economic impossibility so there's no need to discuss it. However, since it relies on a single source payer and eliminates private insurance in most versions, its similarities to the VA are greater than its differences.
 
ludin said:
yeah people think they are going to get private rooms and conceirge service.
i have seen national healthcare medicine. it is about 200 people waiting in a hospital lobby
all wanting to see a doctor and people lined up out the door waiting.
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Yep. When my Mom had cataract surgery, her appointment time was 2 weeks. My friend in Canada had his father get it and he waited 14 months. This is what people on the left are clamoring for.
 
ludin said:
Hospitals Stand to Lose Billions Under ‘Medicare for All’ - The New York Times

If Medicare for all abolished private insurance and reduced rates to Medicare levels — at least 40 percent lower, by one estimate — there would most likely be significant changes throughout the health care industry, which makes up 18 percent of the nation’s economy and is one of the nation’s largest employers.
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Most of that is net-profit in for-profit hospitals and pharmaceuticals.
 
Lisa said:
The core of the ACA was the same as the GOP alternative to Hillarycare in 2003.
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No it wasn't stop lying. it was 1 senator and no republican supported it.
It was introduced by Chaffee and while it had a few co-sponsers it never went anywhere
nor did it gain any ground and was opposed by a huge majority of the senate republicans.

If you are referring to the heritage bill.
here is the guy that wrote the damn thing that says you are wrong.

Don't Blame Heritage for ObamaCare Mandate | The Heritage Foundation
 
Lisa said:
Most of that is net-profit in for-profit hospitals and pharmaceuticals.
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So what. they are not going to take a 40% pay cut.
you wouldn't take a 40% pay cut. you would rant and rave about it.

so why do you expect them to take a 40% pay cut?
 
VanceMack said:
Is that study from the same people that said Obamacare would save money? From the same people that lied about being able to keep plans and doctors and the low costs of the ACA insurance requirements?
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The people who said Obamacare would save money hugely underestimated how much would be saved. The data are in at this point. The optimists weren’t optimistic enough.
 
veritas1 said:
Medicare for all will never happen. It is an economic impossibility so there's no need to discuss it. However, since it relies on a single source payer and eliminates private insurance in most versions, its similarities to the VA are greater than its differences.
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There is no similarity between Medicare and the VA.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Well if Thailand is such an amazing place to live why don’t you move there now?
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What is your healthcare solution, or do you want to pray about this?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Well if Thailand is such an amazing place to live why don’t you move there now?
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It’s not just Thailand. All developed or developing countries have basic safety nets to protect the basic human rights of their citizens. Not sure why we should be the only ones where our citizens live in such fear and insecurity. It’s pretty primitive and barbaric. No one lives like this in the modern world.
 
Lisa said:
What is your healthcare solution, or do you want to pray about this?
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Total deregulation.

Abolish government healthcare for non-government employees.
 
Lisa said:
There is no similarity between Medicare and the VA.
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ANY system that eliminates private insurance will guarantee that everyone gets similar care and that that care will be substandard. It can't help but be so.
 
Lisa said:
Most of that is net-profit in for-profit hospitals and pharmaceuticals.
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The large majority of hospitals are not-for-profit or public. Slashing their budgets will have real implications that are going to have to be grappled with.
 
ataraxia said:
It’s not just Thailand. All developed or developing countries have basic safety nets to protect the basic human rights of their citizens. Not sure why we should be the only ones where our citizens live in such fear and insecurity. It’s pretty primitive and barbaric. No one lives like this in the modern world.
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There is no basic human right to fruit of someone’s labor. And in fact making things like healthcare a right is why it’s expensive. We have too many government agencies and programs involved in healthcare whereas repealing Medicare and Medicaid and eliminating state CON laws would drive prices down
 
veritas1 said:
ANY system that eliminates private insurance will guarantee that everyone gets similar care and that that care will be substandard. It can't help but be so.
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That doesn’t explain why American public health ranks toward the bottom of most developed nations in the world.
 
ataraxia said:
That doesn’t explain why American public health ranks toward the bottom of most developed nations in the world.
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But it might explain why people come here for operations they can't afford to wait for in other places.
 
Greenbeard said:
The large majority of hospitals are not-for-profit or public. Slashing their budgets will have real implications that are going to have to be grappled with.
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Medicare pay rates could be increased. They aren't set in stone.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
There is no basic human right to fruit of someone’s labor. And in fact making things like healthcare a right is why it’s expensive. We have too many government agencies and programs involved in healthcare whereas repealing Medicare and Medicaid and eliminating state CON laws would drive prices down
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Healthcare was declared a basic human right back in the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This was drafted by the United States and spearheaded in the United Nations. Almost all countries around the world have signed onto it now. It’s kind of interesting that it has gone full circle and is now so under siege right here at home where the ideas started.
 
ataraxia said:
Healthcare was declared a basic human right back in the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This was drafted by the United States and spearheaded in the United Nations. Almost all countries around the world have signed onto it now. It’s kind of interesting that it has gone full circle and is now so under siege right here at home where the ideas started.
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I don’t put any stock at all in the UDHR. It’s a flawed document, no country strictly abides by it, and it’s really an attempt to force flawed values into society where they do not function.

Granting positive rights practically never works in reality, Brazil and Argentina tried and now they’re in currency crisis and bankrupt

Quality of care in nearly all single payer countries is objectively worse then the US unless you pay for supplemental insurance, taxes to pay for these schemes actually mean you have less of your income them if you had all private plans. It’s only a benefit if you do not wish to work and earn income.
 
Greenbeard said:
The people who said Obamacare would save money hugely underestimated how much would be saved. The data are in at this point. The optimists weren’t optimistic enough.
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Horse****. People are paying huge premiums and ridiculous deductible for insurance plans before their benefits even kick in. The ACA is a failure...it was BUILT to be a failure.
 
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