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Spotlight on Mormon beliefs. (LDS)

tosca1

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This thread is a continuation from the heavy discussion in The Resurrection. Questions were posed in an effort to understand where traditional Christian beliefs differ with the Mormons', and since I anticipate a really thorough, lively and lengthy discussion about the posted questions (among other things), I think the LDS deserves a thread of its own.


Please understand that I firmly think that Mormons, like any other people of faith, sincerely want to do the right thing.


Unfortunately, I also believe they have a false understanding of who God is and as a result, Mormons live with such a heavy burden to be good enough and do enough, that they may be saved by Jesus.



Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post

Let's try to understand where we are different, Laska. Correct me if I'm wrong, and please feel free to explain.

Is it true.....


1. Mormons believe we are all born perfect. We can't sin until we reach the age of accountability (age 8).

All born innocent. Baptism is at the age of 8 because those under that age, and the mentally handicapped who do not know right or wrong, are not held accountable by God. As an article of faith states: We believe man will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression. Infant baptism is seen as an affront to the mercies of God.

2. Mormons believe God and Jesus are two separate physical people who dwelt on Earth.

Two separate beings with Jesus having dwelt on the earth.


3. Mormons believe God was the Father of Jesus, and both of them died.

We believe God was father of Jesus. We believe Jesus died and was resurrected. It has not been revealed if God the Father went through the same process that Jesus went through sometime in the eternities. I personally believe He likely did but it is just speculation.


4. Mormons believe that if you die without confessing your sins to a Bishop, you get punished. The punishment is that you don't get to the THIRD HEAVEN where God lives.

No. God lives in the Celestial kingdom. The third heaven is the Telestial. God is to judge who makes it to the Celestial. If you are saying that one that lives their life contrary to the requirements to inherit the highest kingdom, and then on their death bed confesses, will they imherit the second or lowest kingdom? Likely imo. The Book of Mormon teaches that this life is the time to prepare to meet God.


5. Mormons believe there are three heavens. The third Heaven itself has three levels.

Pretty much accurate. I know the Celestial kingdom has three levels, not sure if the lower kingdoms do. The third heaven is called the Telestial heaven. https://www.lds.org/topics/kingdoms-of-glory?lang=eng


6. They also believe that there is no hell.

No, that's not correct


7. They believe in an "outer darkness".....but, according to an ex-Mormon, that's quite "muddy" since no one is sure what kind of people goes there.

There is a temporary state of hell that many will go to after death and before the resurrection. They will have the opportunity to repent and gain access to the lowest level of heaven before the final judgement. There will be a small percentage of the human population that will use their free agency to reject all redemption, become a law unto themselves, and inherit a permanent hell referred to as outer darkness. They reject all light even when their eyes are fully opened. The ex-Mormon is being truthful in that not much has been revealed about this more permanent hell.



8. You have to be baptized in order to be saved. Even if you have faith in Christ, if you're not baptized, you're not saved.

Baptism into the Lord's true church by one with the authority to do it is a necessary requirement to enter into the kingdom of God. It is the gate. There is a space in between death and the resurrection where those who lived on the earth and never had this opportunity will be taught the gospel and will accept or reject a proxy baptism for them that are done by Latter Day Saints in the temples.


9. Mormons believe that Lucifer is Jesus' brother back in "original" Earth where God and Jesus lived.

Jesus and Hitler were both humans. Imagine that. All of our spirit's are the offspring of God, all of us our spiritual brothers and sisters, the wicked and the righteous. We have free agency. Some like Jesus follow a path that leads to becoming like God. Others follow a path that leads to misery and destruction. Lucifer and a third of the hosts of Heaven rebelled against truth and righteousness and were cast down from Heaven. So yes Lucifer and Jesus were brothers, like we all are. Anti-Mormons love to quote this out of context in a sensational way to make the religion look bad to their audience.



10. Mormons believe that when Jesus died, the people fell away and the priesthood left the earth. The priesthood didn't return until it was given to Joseph Smith.

Not exactly but close. The New Testament apostles still had real authority while they were alive. After they are killed the authority was gone. Which means the Catholic church and all the Protestant churches that have come from it, their leaders have had no real authority to act in God's name. Peter, Lames, and John, the first presidency of the NT church, who last held the keys to the Melchizadech priesthood, restored them to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the restoration of the same church set up in the New Testament.


11. They believe the Bible is the Word of God - as long as it's translated correctly. They believe The Book Of Mormon is also the Word of God.

True


12. They believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent. They believe the 10 tribes that were lost will get back and gather in Missouri.

True.


13. They believe the Garden Of Eden was in Missouri and that's where Jesus will be raised.

You are correct about the garden of Eden being in Missouri, which is in the middle of the American continent. I don't know what you mean about Jesus being raised. It is where the New Jerusalem will be built in the Millennium and where Christ will reign, as He will also reign in Old Jerusalem. Two capitals during the Millennium.


The answers in bold were responses to the questions (by an LDS). As I understand that (just like any people of faith I suppose), there are also variations of beliefs among Mormons, so any Mormon who'd like to explain what they personally believe, please feel free to do so.
 
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1. Mormons believe we are all born perfect. We can't sin until we reach the age of accountability (age 8).

All born innocent.


In other words, you don't believe in the original sin. You don't believe we have a sinful nature.

Do you know, your belief has rendered the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, meaningless.



As an article of faith states: We believe man will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

You do realize this contradicts several passages that indicate man is hopelessly enslaved by his sins (apart from God’s intervention) and that his good works are “dead” or worthless in meriting God’s favor.


Eph 2
Made Alive in Christ
2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.


Romans 7
23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.


Hebrews 9
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.




If we are all born innocent, and we are not enslaved by our sinful nature.....then what was the Messiah all about?

The Bible is all about the coming of The Messiah. Christianity is all about Jesus Christ.

So, how can you make Jesus unnecessary?




The Calvinistic view sees one as unable to overcome his sin apart from the power of the Holy Spirit, a power possessed only when one turns in reliance upon Christ and His atoning sacrifice for sin upon the cross. The Calvinistic view of original sin is most consistent with biblical teaching.

Read more: What is original sin?
 
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Do Mormons believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

What do Mormons believe about the Messiah? What is the purpose of the Messiah?
 
1. Mormons believe we are all born perfect. We can't sin until we reach the age of accountability (age 8).
False. We are all born to sin. The age of accountability was 13 in the bible. It was until this age any actions committed were not blamed on the youth but could be blamed on the parents. at the age of 13 the person was then held accountable for their own actions.

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.


2. Mormons believe God and Jesus are two separate physical people who dwelt on Earth.
Nope Christ was God made flesh the father never came to earth.


3. Mormons believe God was the Father of Jesus, and both of them died.
Again nope because when Christ died he said Father into your hands i commend my spirit. He couldn't have done that if God was dead.


4. Mormons believe that if you die without confessing your sins to a Bishop, you get punished. The punishment is that you don't get to the THIRD HEAVEN where God lives.
No where in the bible is this listed.


5. Mormons believe there are three heavens. The third Heaven itself has three levels.
This is of some debate even in the bible. What i believe is that there are different level of heaven just like hell. So the mass murderer can be saved and go to heaven but he won't get the same reward as those that have stayed the course and run the race.


6. They also believe that there is no hell.
again biblically not true.


7. They believe in an "outer darkness".....but, according to an ex-Mormon, that's quite "muddy" since no one is sure what kind of people goes there.
Hell maybe?


8. You have to be baptized in order to be saved. Even if you have faith in Christ, if you're not baptized, you're not saved.
again biblically untrue.


9. Mormons believe that Lucifer is Jesus' brother back in "original" Earth where God and Jesus lived.
nope lucifer was an angel.


10. Mormons believe that when Jesus died, the people fell away and the priesthood left the earth. The priesthood didn't return until it was given to Joseph Smith.
Again this is not correct read the great commission.


11. They believe the Bible is the Word of God - as long as it's translated correctly. They believe The Book Of Mormon is also the Word of God.
Sounds like JW stuff to me.


12. They believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent. They believe the 10 tribes that were lost will get back and gather in Missouri.
why MO? FL or texas would be much better. heck i would take OK as well or KS.

Again according to the book of revelation the old heaven and the old earth will be wiped out and a new heaven and a new earth will be established.


13. They believe the Garden Of Eden was in Missouri and that's where Jesus will be raised.
Yea really no where to go on this one. there is simply no biblical evidence for any of this at all.
 
This thread is a continuation from the heavy discussion in The Resurrection. Questions were posed in an effort to understand where traditional Christian beliefs differ with the Mormons', and since I anticipate a really thorough, lively and lengthy discussion about the posted questions (among other things), I think the LDS deserves a thread of its own.


Please understand that I firmly think that Mormons, like any other people of faith, sincerely want to do the right thing.


Unfortunately, I also believe they have a false understanding of who God is and as a result, Mormons live with such a heavy burden to be good enough and do enough, that they may be saved by Jesus.






The answers in bold were responses to the questions (by an LDS). As I understand that (just like any people of faith I suppose), there are also variations of beliefs among Mormons, so any Mormon who'd like to explain what they personally believe, please feel free to do so.

I think he covers everything:

Adam, the Fall, and the Messiah: The Mormon Perspective
 
"Original Sin: Augustine, Luther, and Calvin vs. LDS Doctrine (and the Bible!)
An important theological issue is whether or not we are accountable for Adam's transgression. Do we share guilt in that original sin (i.e., the sin associated with the origin of man)? Concerning evangelical views on original sin, L. Ara Norwood in FARMS Review of Books (Vol. 9, No. 2, pp. 164-201) explains that "the source of this doctrine rests with the erroneous scriptural interpretation of Romans 5:12" from Augustine, as Professor Elaine Pagels details:

The Greek text reads, "Through one man [or 'because of one man,'] sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came upon all men, in that all sinned." John Chrysostom, like most Christians, took this to mean that Adam's sin brought death into the world, and death came upon all because "all sinned." But Augustine read the passage in Latin, and so either ignored or was unaware of the connotations of the Greek original; thus he misread the last phrase as referring to Adam. Augustine insisted that it meant that "death came upon all men, in whom all sinned" - that the sin of "one man," Adam, brought upon humanity not only universal death, but also universal, and inevitable, sin. Augustine uses the passage to deny that human beings have free moral choice, which Jews and Christians had traditionally regarded as the birthright of humanity made "in God's image." Augustine decrees, on the contrary, that the whole human race inherited from Adam a nature irreversibly damaged by sin...."
Augustine attempts to rest his case concerning original sin ... upon the evidence of one prepositional phrase in Romans 5:12, insisting that Paul said that death came upon all humanity because of Adam, "in whom all sinned. But Augustine misreads and mistranslates this phrase (which others translate "in that [i.e., because] all sinned") and then proceeds to defend his errors ad infinitum.... Augustine's argument has persuaded the majority of western Catholic and Protestant theologians to agree with him;... But, ... when we actually compare Augustine's interpretation with those of theologians as diverse as Origen, John Chrysostom, and Pelagius, we can see that Augustine found in Romans ... what others had not seen there. (Elaine Pagels, Adam, Eve, and the Serpent, New York: Random House, 1988, pp. 109 and 143, emphasis in the original, as cited by Norwood, pp. 187-188.)
Dr. Seth Farber writes of Augustine's doctrine of original sin in "The Reign of Augustine," The Christian Activist: A Journal of Orthodox Opinion, Vol. 13, Winter/Spring 1999, pp. 40-45,56:

Thus, according to Augustine, due to Adam's sin every person belongs to a "mass of perdition".... Augustine wrote, "The damned lump of humanity was lying prostrate. Nay, was wallowing in evil...." Augustine argues that infants who did not receive baptism would be condemned to suffer the torments of eternal punishment in hell. He wrote that no one who is born of Adam and Eve was "less a sinner than they were." ... "Everyone arising as he does from a condemned stock, is from the first necessarily evil and carnal through Adam." Because it was transmitted by natural propagation, "original sin was as universal and inevitable as life itself." Thus, Augustine writes, "The infant is bad: though little, he is already a great sinner."
Hey, Augustine, speak for your own kids!

Unfortunately, Augustine's views prevailed. They were formally canonized by the Council of Trent in the sixteenth century.

Farber also writes of Luther's views on original guilt (ibid., p. 41):

Like Augustine, Luther denied that God willed the salvation of all human beings [in contrast, see 1 Tim. 2:4, for which Augustine said the "all" only referred to the predestined saved ones], and he asserted that He "saved so few and damned so many." Luther's explanation for this is similar to that of Augustine: By not granting salvation to all, God shows us that His grace cannot be taken for granted.... Like Augustine, Luther conceived God as a majestic sovereign, to whose arbitrary fiat human beings - at least those who are predestined to be saved - ought to succumb in fear, in reverence, and in gratitude.
Luther asserted that original sin had completely abnegated freedom of the will, which was now entirely in bondage to sin, and "not free to strive toward whatever is declared good." He stated that man "neither does the good nor is capable of it in the absence of grace." (Farber, p. 41)
Farber also explains Calvin's position:

Like Augustine and Luther, Calvin believed that man's nature was altered and irreparably damaged by original sin. He stated, "Infants bring their own damnation with them from their mothers' wombs; the moment they are born, their natures are odious and abominable to God." (p. 41)
(Could Calvin's children really have been that ugly? Again, please speak for your own kids!)

Modern Protestant views continue to emphasize the inherited nature of the sin. The related Roman Catholic view is summarized by Byron R. Merrill in the article "Original Sin" in Vol. 3 of The Encyclopedia of Mormonism:

The doctrine of original sin as taught traditionally states that, due to the Fall of Adam, infants are born tainted with actual sin, resulting in the "privation of sanctifying grace"; this dogma "does not attribute to the children of Adam any properly so-called responsibility for the act of their father," nor is it a voluntary sin "in the strict sense of the word," yet it is a "real sin" (S. Harent, "Original Sin," in Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 ed., Vol. 11, p. 315). All people, according to this doctrine, except the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ, inherit an actual, existing personal guilt.... A corollary of this belief is the doctrine of infant baptism, holding that infants are to be baptized to remove this sin because those who die without baptism remain unsanctified and forever excluded from heaven and the presence of God.
In the Eastern Christian tradition, Orthodoxy, the misanthropic concept of original sin never became entrenched. As Farber explains, "The source of evil lies in the freedom of man. Sin is not in the nature of humanity but is entirely an act of will. Sin is sin because it is voluntary. Otherwise God would not condemn us for it" (p. 44).

In LDS doctrine, free will is a vital gift from God - but a dangerous gift that makes evil possible. God wants all of us to be saved, but does not force us to accept Him. We must choose. Infants are free from guilt and are saved in the glories of heaven if they die before becoming accountable. In fact, they're precious, clean, and cute, not "odious." The Fall of Adam affects us all in bringing spiritual death (sin) and temporal death (which can be understood as physical death or, in what may be a preferred interpretation, our physical separation from God here in mortality--see "The Earth and Man" by James Talmage). But we are accountable for our own actions, not for Adam's. Byron R. Merrill explains (ibid.):
 
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"While The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that the transgression of Adam and Eve brought death into the world and made all mortals subject to temptation, suffering, and weakness, it denies that any culpability is automatically transmitted to Adam and Eve's offspring. All mortals commit sin, but they will be punished "for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression" (A of F 2)....
Latter-day Saints believe that infants inherit certain effects of the Fall, but not the responsibility for any sin as a result of Adam's or Eve's transgression. From the foundation of the world, the Atonement of Jesus Christ makes amends "for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam" (Mosiah 3:11). Therefore, baptism is not needed until children reach a state of accountability, generally at the age of eight years, for little children cannot sin and are innocent.... They are redeemed from the beginning by the grace of Jesus Christ (D&C 29:46-47), whose Atonement cleanses them of the effects of the Fall (D&C 137:10). The Prophet Mormon wrote the following words of Christ: "Little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them" (Moroni 8:8).
In one account in the Pearl of Great Price, Adam learned that he had been forgiven for his transgression in the Garden of Eden, and that "the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children" (Moses 6:54). However, as a consequence of the Fall, evil is present in the world and all "children are conceived in sin, [and] so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good" (Moses 6:55). Begetting children in marriage is not a sin (cf. Heb. 13:4), but the propensity for sin is inherited.
No mortal person bears the burden of repenting for Adam's transgression. Nevertheless, all inherit the effects of the Fall: All leave the presence of God at birth, all are subject to physical death, and all will sin in some measure. From the moment of conception, the body inherits the seed of mortality that will eventually result in death, but only as a person becomes accountable and chooses evil over good do personal sins result in further separation from God. Thus Adam was counseled: "Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there" (Moses 5:57).
Bibliography
Haag, Herbert. Is Original Sin in Scripture? New York, 1969.
McConkie, Bruce R. A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pp. 81-104. Salt Lake City, 1985.
BYRON R. MERRILL
The Fall of Adam made the Atonement necessary for in our fallen state, we all sin individually and are subject to temporal death (or physical separation from God) as well. In fact, the Book of Mormon actually makes it clear that humans are incapable of doing good on their own, due to our fallen nature, and that we must be changed by the power of Christ to be able to follow Him. For details, see "Cry Redemption: The Plan of Redemption as Taught in the Book of Mormon" by Corbin T. Volluz (FARMS Review of Books, Vol. 3, No. 1, 1994, pp. 148-169). It is only through the Atonement of Christ and HIs merits and grace that we have any hope of returning to the Father.


The Lord revealed to Adam that "the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt" so that little children were not evil, but were "whole from the foundation of the world" (Moses 6:54). Thus, "every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God" (Doctrine and Covenants 93:38). Thus, little children are redeemed from the Fall and need not be baptized, but as we become accountable, we each fall into sin and need to be born again. (Little children do not have knowledge of good and evil, as stated in Deut. 1:39, and thus aren't accountable yet and do not fall into sin.)""
 
Do Mormons believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

What do Mormons believe about the Messiah? What is the purpose of the Messiah?

Yes, X 10. Read the Book of Mormon, it testifies of Jesus as the Messiah on basically every page. The name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Here is a link that should give an adequate response to the rest.

Mormons and Mormon Beliefs: An Introduction to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons)
 
Tosca's Christianity's original sin:

Augustine wrote, "The damned lump of humanity was lying prostrate. Nay, was wallowing in evil...." Augustine argues that infants who did not receive baptism would be condemned to suffer the torments of eternal punishment in hell. He wrote that no one who is born of Adam and Eve was "less a sinner than they were." ... "Everyone arising as he does from a condemned stock, is from the first necessarily evil and carnal through Adam." Because it was transmitted by natural propagation, "original sin was as universal and inevitable as life itself." Thus, Augustine writes, "The infant is bad: though little, he is already a great sinner."

Like Augustine and Luther, Calvin believed that man's nature was altered and irreparably damaged by original sin. He stated, "Infants bring their own damnation with them from their mothers' wombs; the moment they are born, their natures are odious and abominable to God." (p. 41)



The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints view:

Infants are free from guilt and are saved in the glories of heaven if they die before becoming accountable. In fact, they're precious, clean, and cute, not "odious."
 
"Original Sin: Augustine, Luther, and Calvin vs. LDS Doctrine (and the Bible!)
An important theological issue is whether or not we are accountable for Adam's transgression. Do we share guilt in that original sin (i.e., the sin associated with the origin of man)? Concerning evangelical views on original sin, L. Ara Norwood in FARMS Review of Books (Vol. 9, No. 2, pp. 164-201) explains that "the source of this doctrine rests with the erroneous scriptural interpretation of Romans 5:12" from Augustine, as Professor Elaine Pagels details:


But how can Romans 5:12 be an "erroneous scriptural interpretation" when Romans 5:19 practically gives the same message?


Romans 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.



Furthermore, if you read Romans 5:19 again....it clearly talks about the purpose of the Messiah!

So please address the significant issue that if we go by the LDS interpretation -

Jesus Christ has no real role!
 
But how can Romans 5:12 be an "erroneous scriptural interpretation" when Romans 5:19 practically gives the same message?

Romans 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.



Furthermore, if you read Romans 5:19 again....it clearly talks about the purpose of the Messiah!

So please address the significant issue that if we go by the LDS interpretation -

Jesus Christ has no real role!

Read and study the links. The article where this is taken from goes into great detail how the LDS interpret that verse.
 
Read and study the links. Jesus Christ certainly has a role in LDS thought.


Nope. Not if you negate Romans 5:19. Read it again.


Romans 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 
Nope. Not if you negate Romans 5:19. Read it again.


Romans 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The article covers it. If you are not going to read what I link, there is no use debating. I cannot explain it better than the author.
 
Yes, X 10. Read the Book of Mormon, it testifies of Jesus as the Messiah on basically every page. The name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Here is a link that should give an adequate response to the rest.

Mormons and Mormon Beliefs: An Introduction to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons)

But that is what the devil will do if he wants to lure people INTO BELIEVING THEY ARE FOLLOWING JESUS CHRIST - when in truth, they are being misled!

That would be called "false advertisement," if we're selling.


Remember the warning of Jesus.


Mark 13:6
Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and will deceive many.
 
The article covers it. If you are not going to read what I link, there is no use debating. I cannot explain it better than the author.

State where exactly to read. What page, paragraph? That's what you're supposed to do especially when you give the website that deals generally about Mormonism!

Ideally, go to that specific page and link it!

It's one thing if you gave an article that deals directly with the issue being discussed.....but your link deals with practically everything Mormon. I'm not going to read the whole thing looking for it!

That would be like me handing you the Bible, and telling you to read it since it COVERS the Messiah!
 
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State where exactly to read. What page, paragraph? That's what you're supposed to do especially when you give the website that deals generally about Mormonism!

Ideally, go to that specific page and link it!

It's one thing if you gave an article that deals directly with the issue being discussed.....but your link deals with practically everything Mormon. I'm not going to read the whole thing looking for it!

That would be like me handing you the Bible, and telling you to read it since it COVERS the Messiah!

The previous link. You really need to read both. It may take you 30 minutes or so, maybe much longer to thoroughly understand it. There are links within the articles you should even read and study. The first link deals more precisely with your question. The second link will answer many of your future questions. The questions you ask need a lot of background to understand the LDS position. Until you grasp the material in those two links, no use to go on.
 
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The previous link. You really need to read both. It may take you 30 minutes or so. The first link deals more precisely with your question. The second link will answer many of you future questions. The questions you ask need a lot of background to understand the LDS position. Until you grasp the material in those two links, and you may have to read and re-read it and study and ponder to understand them, no use to go on.


No, it doesn't work that way. You're not giving a particular article as a link - you're giving the whole blasted website! :lol:

You go there and retrieve the link yourself for THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE!

I'm beginning to suspect you don't really have anything solid that deals with the issue I gave you.....and I suspect you're trying to squirm off the hook. :lol:
 
I knew it!

See you.....

You knew what, that I didn't want to spend hours answering your questions when all you have to do is read everything in the links. I didn't ask you to start this thread. If you want to learn about the LDS, read the Book of Mormon, study the links.
 
You knew what, that I didn't want to spend hours answering your questions when all you have to do is read everything in the links. I didn't ask you to start this thread. If you want to learn about the LDS, read the Book of Mormon, study the links.


That you don't have anything solid to deal with the issue - that if we go by LDS interpretation, the Messiah is just another "pretty face" that adorns, but has no significant role in your doctrine!

He's just being used to get those who want to follow Christ!

If you have anything, just provide the link to that particular page and tell me which paragraph to read!
 
You knew what, that I didn't want to spend hours answering your questions when all you have to do is read everything in the links. I didn't ask you to start this thread. If you want to learn about the LDS, read the Book of Mormon, study the links.


Just by your doctrine that it REQUIRES BAPTISM TO BE SAVED had already diminished the role of the Messiah!

What? If you believe in Jesus Christ, yet not baptized, you mean you're not saved? Baptism is more important than Christ?


So....Jesus was lying when He said that all you have to do is to believe in Him, accept Him as the Saviour!

Golly....for the life of me, why would anyone want to believe a liar?
Because that's what Jesus is - a liar - IF we go by the words of Joseph Smith.
 
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In the New Testament, Paul affirms an inherited sin nature when he says, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12). And the Apostle John says this to his readers: If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

Students of Scripture have all reached the conclusion that the Bible teaches each and every person possesses a sinful nature, with Charles Spurgeon summing up the reality when he said: “As the salt flavors every drop in the Atlantic, so does sin affect every atom of our nature. It is so sadly there, so abundantly there, that if you cannot detect it, you are deceived.”

the Bible says each person is equipped by God with a conscience that instinctively knows right and wrong. Paul confirms this truth when he says, "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them" (Romans 2:14-15).


The struggle between the sinful and regenerated spiritual nature in a Christian will be quite evident to a person who has been born again, but such a battle will not occur in a person who has not become a believer in Christ. They remain spiritually dead and are not sensitive to sin as a Christian is.


The good news is that Christ’s sacrifice supplies spiritual life for any person who calls on the name of the Lord for salvation. Paul says, “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life” (Romans 5:10). The Apostle also highlights this spiritual regeneration when he writes, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

The Spirit of God takes up residence in each person who is born again and supplies the power to not only defeat the effects of the sin nature, but to supply strength to defeat the old sinful nature’s pull to do wrong in God’s sight. Paul says it like this: “But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh” (Galatians 5:16–17).

The great news is that the sin nature can be defeated by the One who did not inherit a sin nature from His earthly parents (Jesus was born of a virgin). Through His finished work on the cross, Jesus, being sinless, satisfied God’s wrath for sinners and rose again to offer life to those devoid of spiritual life.

Conclusions
The fact that each person ever born possesses a sin nature is verified by human experience and the Word of God. The good news is that Christ provides a way of conquering the inherited sin nature and a victory that can be experienced both in this life and the next. No matter how bad off the person is, Jesus can defeat the sin that enslaves him. As John Calvin put it, “For certainly, Christ is much more powerful to save than Adam was to ruin.”


Read more: What is the sin nature?
 
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