Sondland Updates Impeachment Testimony, Describing Ukraine Quid Pro Quo

[Manc Skipper]

what's to discuss? I read the transcript and so did you.

We disagree on what was insinuated and now Pelosi will decide to impeach or not. Simple... not about law its about Opinions and Power...Pelosi has the Power and her opinion counts most until we move to the Senate for the trial.

The "transcript" isn't a true record of the transaction.

 

[pamak]

There is a common thread in this affair but it ain't Trump's corruption.
Can you take a guess what or who it might be and what their motivation might be?
You know, similar to another scandal that went bust recently.

No, I will not guess.

What I can take as default is that many of the people who came froward with incriminating testimonies have served for decades and under different republican and democrat presidents. Many of them have also top security clearance. Such professionals cannot just have access to a POTUS phone calls without making sure that they have impeccable credentials.

 

[dairyair]

I reckon there's a 50/50 chance that Trump will be in jail within 5 years.

Unless someone does an Epstein on him.

 

[The Mark]

Sondland Updates Impeachment Testimony, Describing Ukraine Quid Pro Quo - The New York Times

In a substantial update to his initial account, Gordon D. Sondland recounted how he told Ukrainian officials military aid was tied to their commitment to investigations President Trump wanted.

--

Huge blow to Trump's "no quid pro quo" argument.

It's only a huge blow to his argument for those willing to consider data sources other than his argument.

 

[pamak]

The same reason why Steele, a private citizen, was involved. Looking for dirt on a political candidate.

Wrong!

Steele was hired by an American company

Giuliani was hired by Trump

If you have evidence that Obama hired Steele, please show it

 

[TomFitz]

Nice chronology and commentary. But their biggest miscalculation? Pelosi! They never imagined she would do an impeachment investigation bringing their deeds into the light.

She had no intention of moving on it before the fall of 2019. The whistleblower blew the lid off what was going on (although there were clearly rumblings), and presented a priceless opportunity.

Trump’s slapped together response was to send Rudy to float the Hunter Biden story. It was clear that the right wing noise machine was revved up for the premiere (on Cuomo). But Guliani managed to bury Trump, only to be outdone by Mick Mulvaney two weeks later. Neither have been seen since and are presumed dead.

 

[dairyair]

The main problem with this though, is that people who change their story, are usually not viewed as reliable.

How many times in a tweets in a row does tRUMP change his story?

How many times has the story on this quid pro quo changed in the last several weeks?

No quid pro quo.
Quid pro quo, but every one does it.
Quid pro quo is just fine.

 

[pamak]

I reckon there's a 50/50 chance that Trump will be in jail within 5 years.

I think you are optimistic

My view is that if there is a criminal trial, there will be at least one Trump minion in the jury and Trump will not be convicted

 

[OpportunityCost]

Wrong!

During the campaign, it was Clinton which was harmed by the FBI while Trump managed to have an election without any public statement from Comey about the FBI's investigation.

That's the most laughable pile of bull**** I've ever heard. The FBI covered for her and prevented her prosecution for something ANYONE else would have gone to prison for. The passed out immunities like candy, allowed evidence to be destroyed, got multiple conflicting testimonies, and on and on.

 

[dairyair]

They absolutely aren't. They're just flat out lying...lol

Lying about what?
They have released transcripts of the testimonies.

 

[apdst]

Lying about what?
They have released transcripts of the testimonies.

Show us the smoking gun, then.

 

[dairyair]

how about the untrustworthiness of Schiff exhibited in hearing describing Trump phone call?.....Schiff is a proven liar out to get Trump no matter what...cannot be trusted

Neither can tRUMP.
Lies is just part of getting out of bed for him.

 

[pamak]

That's the most laughable pile of bull**** I've ever heard. The FBI covered for her and prevented her prosecution for something ANYONE else would have gone to prison for. The passed out immunities like candy, allowed evidence to be destroyed, got multiple conflicting testimonies, and on and on.

The IG report did not find anything of what you say, and this happened during the Trump's administration
I prefer to stick with the obvious and verifiable facts such as Comey's public statements about the reopening of Clinton investigation but not about the FBI investigation against some Trump associates. You can create whatever scenarios you want in your head.

 

[Chomsky]

Here is a philosophical question: if a president and party act and encourage violating the law they are charged with upholding, does that mean that president and party cannot claim to uphold the law when other people break it? Like when the administration tries to prosecute people who illegally cross over the border and offer assistance to the people trying to get inside the United States, can the people being prosecuted argue that they refuse to recognize the authority of this administration because it has acted in contempt of the very laws the administration claims to be upholding?

That's far more philosophical than I'd want to hazard a guess.

 

[dairyair]

do you get how Pelosi impeaching Trump to save Biden's campaign would be extortion?:roll:

No. Do explain it better.

 

[dairyair]

Trump inquiring about Biden corruption in Ukraine and facing impeachment is some "Deep State" **** alright:lol:

Withholding funds for their war the congress granted until they do what the prez wants is not inquiring, it's bribery, extortion, illegal.

 

[OpportunityCost]

The IG report did not find anything of what you say, and this happened during the Trump's administration
I prefer to stick with the obvious and verifiable facts such as Comey's public statements about the reopening of Clinton investigation but not about the FBI investigation against some Trump associates. You can create whatever scenarios you want in your head.

Everyone on Clinton's team involved with this received immunity from prosecution. There was conflicting testimony. There was destroyed evidence. I don't know what IG report you read, maybe it was written in crayon.

 

[dairyair]

The same reason why Steele, a private citizen, was involved. Looking for dirt on a political candidate.

Who paid Steele?
Did I miss the conviction?

All kinds of pvt citizens will look for dirt, but how many are the personal lawyer of the prez requesting dirt for money that was allocated by US congress in a form of extortion?

 

[dairyair]

That's the most laughable pile of bull**** I've ever heard. The FBI covered for her and prevented her prosecution for something ANYONE else would have gone to prison for. The passed out immunities like candy, allowed evidence to be destroyed, got multiple conflicting testimonies, and on and on.

Well, some people will make up anything.

 

[dairyair]

Show us the smoking gun, then.

I am not on the investigation committee.
There is no trial.
There is still an inquiry going on.

But, the reversal by Sondland is pretty damaging. IMO.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Show us the smoking gun, then.

You're just going to have to wait for the senate trial like the rest of us.

 

[pamak]

Everyone on Clinton's team involved with this received immunity from prosecution. There was conflicting testimony. There was destroyed evidence. I don't know what IG report you read, maybe it was written in crayon.

If you do not know the IG report, you just show that you are misinformed

https://www.justice.gov/file/1071991/download

By the way, Mueller did not even interview Trump or even Jr who was directly involved in the tower meeting.

Back to the verifiable FACTS!

Comey as an FBI Director made public statements revealing details of the FBI investigation a few weeks before the elections that harmed Hillary while he kept secret details of the FBI investigation of Trump associates which could harm Trump.

 

[OpportunityCost]

If you do not know the IG report, you just show that you are misinformed

https://www.justice.gov/file/1071991/download

By the way, Mueller did not even interview Trump or even Jr who was directly involved in the tower meeting.

Back to the verifiable FACTS!

Comey as an FBI Director made public statements revealing details of the FBI investigation a few weeks before the elections that harmed Hillary while he kept secret details of the FBI investigation of Trump associates which could harm Trump.

You mean the one in which they stated openly about not second guessing decisions or examining them as the most effective strategy? Or the part about text messages and the impropriety of that? Its almost like you haven't read it except to cherry pick phrases to make Von Pantsuit innocent.

 

[James972]

But, the reversal by Sondland is pretty damaging. IMO.

Investigating obvious Biden family bribery and money laundering is certainly required and the last thing a sane person would call a high crime!! Interestingly, Ukraine offered us stuff too to get the missiles. There was a quid pro quo on both sides as there is in any relationship. Say hello to Trump's second term!!

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Democrats and the media are seizing on paragraph five of Sondland's update, where he tells Mr. Yermak the aid may not be released without an anti-corruption statement. Even *if* you think this is nefarious... Sondland admits in paragraph FOUR this was based on an assumption!

One of the main reasons why Sondland's updated testimony is important is because prior to this update, his testimony conflicted with Bill Taylor's testimony.

I agree that more work will need to be done to prove to recalcitrant Always-Trumper Republicans -- those who think Trump is Mother Theresa and perfectly moral and incapable of wrongdoing -- that Trump ordered the military aid to be held up in exchange for an investigation into the Bidens. That's why people like Mulvaney need to testify. I think this is more akin to a situation where the mob boss suggests and hints at what's to be done but doesn't explicitly give a command. Documentary evidence and more eyewitnesses will be needed to prove Trump was complicit, and this was not all Rudy Giuliani's doing.

Also, we need to keep in mind the following:

1) that Mulvaney has already confirmed that they held up the military aid for an investigation into Crowdstrike conspiracy theory.

2) the call transcript between Trump and Zelenskyy proves that Trump offered a quid pro quo, the javelin missile sale in exchange for an investigation into the Crowdstrike conspiracy theory AND one involving the Bidens.

The walls are closing in on Trump.

Gordon Sondland explained further: President Trump wanted Ukraine to root out corruption.
“I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. I want Zelensky to do the right thing... to do what he ran on” (clean up corruption.)

This exchange between Sondland and Trump occurred on Sep. 9, the same day the IC IG notified Schiff of the existence of the whistleblower complaint.

This looks like evidence that Trump was trying to cover everything up because they got CAUGHT.