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Sondland throws Trump and Guliani under the bus first!

independentusa

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Sondland confirms Trump has the Manhattan Ghoul working specifically on the Bursima/Biden and Crowdstrike issue with Ukraine.

Done and done.
 
On the one hand he got his swampy position as a result of giving $1M to Trump's campaign. Suck on that Hunter Biden.

On the other hand, his opening statement looks fairly credible and open.
I suppose when even a bought and paid for Trump supporters agrees its wrong, something may give:

Let me state clearly: Inviting a foreign government to undertake investigations for the purpose of influencing an upcoming U.S. election would be wrong. Withholding foreign aid in order to pressure a foreign government to take such steps would be wrong.

Carefully worded, but there it is. Trump, and Rudy, and he was under the impression Rudy worked for Trump...which is the case. He's testifying to Congress, little reason not to believe he's credible and I'm sure they grilled him back and forth.

He also had good things to say about all the diplomats he worked with. The same Diplomats right wing media is now attacking and trying to "discredit" with nonsense and lies. What a sad time for America.
 
On the one hand he got his swampy position as a result of giving $1M to Trump's campaign. Suck on that Hunter Biden.

On the other hand, his opening statement looks fairly credible and open.
I suppose when even a bought and paid for Trump supporters agrees its wrong, something may give:



Carefully worded, but there it is. Trump, and Rudy, and he was under the impression Rudy worked for Trump...which is the case. He's testifying to Congress, little reason not to believe he's credible and I'm sure they grilled him back and forth.

He also had good things to say about all the diplomats he worked with. The same Diplomats right wing media is now attacking and trying to "discredit" with nonsense and lies. What a sad time for America.

He's an avowed Trumpist and a devout Republican. If his testimony is not believable to these people, then nothing will change their minds. At all.
 
He's an avowed Trumpist and a devout Republican. If his testimony is not believable to these people, then nothing will change their minds. At all.
I think that's long been established. Given a few days or a week of right wing media pumping them full of nonsense, there is nothing that will change minds, nothing that will reduce their support. As long as its "against Democrats", they support it.

As I saw the above OP information based on factual reporting, I wondered what Fox would be doing.
It was gleefully attacking Marie Yavanovich, implying she committed crimes, etc. Madness.'

Like right now, they can't say much, but as soon as the whistle is blown that Sondland is red-meat, they will gorge as though they always knew he was a bad guy and was out to get Trump. Maybe a Democrat plant.
 
I think that's long been established. Given a few days or a week of right wing media pumping them full of nonsense, there is nothing that will change minds, nothing that will reduce their support. As long as its "against Democrats", they support it.

As I saw the above OP information based on factual reporting, I wondered what Fox would be doing.
It was gleefully attacking Marie Yavanovich, implying she committed crimes, etc. Madness.'

Like right now, they can't say much, but as soon as the whistle is blown that Sondland is red-meat, they will gorge as though they always knew he was a bad guy and was out to get Trump. Maybe a Democrat plant.


Fox has spent a lot of its time ginning up an “issue” over Matt Laur. As if anyone cares anymore.

They’ve been filling airtime with that trying to avoid discussing the issue at hand. Although one of the news models claimed that the whole thing was just because Democrats don’t like the way Trump conducts foreign policy. In Fox world, foreign policy seems to be getting your mouthpiece to have a couple of bag men try and blackmail a world leader into finding dirt on your domestic opponent .
 
I think that's long been established. Given a few days or a week of right wing media pumping them full of nonsense, there is nothing that will change minds, nothing that will reduce their support. As long as its "against Democrats", they support it.

As I saw the above OP information based on factual reporting, I wondered what Fox would be doing.
It was gleefully attacking Marie Yavanovich, implying she committed crimes, etc. Madness.'

Like right now, they can't say much, but as soon as the whistle is blown that Sondland is red-meat, they will gorge as though they always knew he was a bad guy and was out to get Trump. Maybe a Democrat plant.
Yes, they turn on & eat their own. Trump is the perfect example. He & they deserve each other.
 
On the one hand he got his swampy position as a result of giving $1M to Trump's campaign. Suck on that Hunter Biden.

On the other hand, his opening statement looks fairly credible and open.
I suppose when even a bought and paid for Trump supporters agrees its wrong, something may give:



Carefully worded, but there it is. Trump, and Rudy, and he was under the impression Rudy worked for Trump...which is the case. He's testifying to Congress, little reason not to believe he's credible and I'm sure they grilled him back and forth.

He also had good things to say about all the diplomats he worked with. The same Diplomats right wing media is now attacking and trying to "discredit" with nonsense and lies. What a sad time for America.

I read his entire opening statement and see nothing incriminating in it whatsoever. That little blurb you quoted as not is an indication of nothing.
 
I think that's long been established. Given a few days or a week of right wing media pumping them full of nonsense, there is nothing that will change minds, nothing that will reduce their support. As long as its "against Democrats", they support it.

As I saw the above OP information based on factual reporting, I wondered what Fox would be doing.
It was gleefully attacking Marie Yavanovich, implying she committed crimes, etc. Madness.'

Like right now, they can't say much, but as soon as the whistle is blown that Sondland is red-meat, they will gorge as though they always knew he was a bad guy and was out to get Trump. Maybe a Democrat plant.

The knives are out in force; mein teil for sure. The cannibals in the republican party cannot wait to consume their own for Trump's benefit. It's like I said yesterday, Trump is playing 5th dimension 3d chess, and everyone, literally everyone, dems, libs, independents, moderates, never trumpers, gop establishment types - they're all wrong. All of them are living in a myopic alternate universe where Trump farts devestation and eliminates his enemies with lethal halitosis.

It's complete insanity.
 
I read his entire opening statement and see nothing incriminating in it whatsoever. That little blurb you quoted as not is an indication of nothing.

It shows explicitly what is already known; that Trump directed the Manhattan Ghoul to push Zelensky to investigate Biden, Bursima - and wanted to do so for political gain.

This has truly become 1984, where you guys think up is down.
 
He's an avowed Trumpist and a devout Republican. If his testimony is not believable to these people, then nothing will change their minds. At all.

What is it you think he said that shows any wrongdoing on the part of Trump?
 
It shows explicitly what is already known; that Trump directed the Manhattan Ghoul to push Zelensky to investigate Biden, Bursima - and wanted to do so for political gain.

This has truly become 1984, where you guys think up is down.

We heard that in the call. This adds nothing.
 
What is it you think he said that shows any wrongdoing on the part of Trump?

It displays corrupt intent, one hundred percent. Only someone who thinks they benefit from Trump being POTUS thinks otherwise.

Then again, you've proven to be all in on das reich's propaganda, so I have zero interest in trying (impossible) to break through your cognitive dissonance barrier.
 
Gordon Sondland Claims He Was 'Disappointed' With Trump's Ukraine Pressure | HuffPost
I guess Sondland does not want to go to jail as other Trump supporters have done. He seems like he is going to throw others under the bus before they can do that to him. I wonder how the rest of his testimony is going to go after his opening statement makes it certain he is going to protect himself.

How did Sondland telling the "House impeachment investigators in an opening statement on Thursday that Trump indicated he was “skeptical” that Ukraine was serious about reform"? Seems to me that he reinforced Trump's concerns about Ukraine being serious about confronting corruption. He was disappointed that Trump allowed Giuliani to interfere in Ukraine but unlike you, I don't see where Sondland threw President Trump under the bus.
 
Sondland confirms Trump has the Manhattan Ghoul working specifically on the Bursima/Biden and Crowdstrike issue with Ukraine.

Done and done.

Well ... yeah.
Cuz that's where the Ukraine corruption was.
The transcript showed that.
Done and done.

Sondland also confirmed that ...

"Ukraine Public Statement
First, I knew that a public embrace of anti-corruption reforms by Ukraine was one of the
pre-conditions for securing a White House meeting with President Zelensky. My view was, and
has always been, that such Western reforms are consistent with U.S. support for rule of law in
Ukraine going back decades, under both Republican and Democrat administrations. Nothing
about that request raised any red flags for me, Ambassador Volker, or Ambassador Taylor."

"Former Vice President Biden/Hunter Biden
Third, given many inaccurate press reports, let me be clear about the following: I do not
recall that Mr. Giuliani discussed Former Vice President Biden or his son Hunter Biden with me.
Like many of you, I read the transcript of the Trump-Zelensky call for the first time when it was
released publicly by the White House on September 25, 2019.
Although Mr. Giuliani did mention the name “Burisma” in August 2019, I understood
that Burisma was one of many examples of Ukrainian companies run by oligarchs
and lacking
the type of corporate governance structures found in Western companies. I did not know until
more recent press reports that Hunter Biden was on the board of Burisma."


"Withholding Security Assistance
Sixth, to the best of my recollection, I do not recall any discussions with the White House
on withholding U.S. security assistance from Ukraine in return for assistance with the President’s
2020 re-election campaign. I recall that, in late July 2019, Ambassadors Volker and Taylor and I
exchanged emails in which we all agreed that President Zelensky should have no involvement in
2020 U.S. Presidential election politics.
At the same time, we all believed strongly that U.S.
Security Assistance should not be withheld."

"Taking the issue seriously, and given the many versions of speculation that had been
circulating about the security aid, I called President Trump directly. I asked the President:
“What do you want from Ukraine?” The President responded, “Nothing. There is no quid pro
quo.” The President repeated: “no quid pro quo” multiple times. This was a very short call.
And I recall the President was in a bad mood."

...
"Let me state clearly: Inviting a foreign government to undertake investigations for the
purpose of influencing an upcoming U.S. election would be wrong. Withholding foreign aid in
order to pressure a foreign government to take such steps would be wrong. I did not and would
not ever participate in such undertakings. In my opinion, security aid to Ukraine was in our vital
national interest and should not have been delayed for any reason."
 
It shows explicitly what is already known; that Trump directed the Manhattan Ghoul to push Zelensky to investigate Biden, Bursima - and wanted to do so for political gain.

This has truly become 1984, where you guys think up is down.

How would you know that? Or rather, how can you assume that when the topic was corruption?
 
We heard that in the call. This adds nothing.

Trump defenders denied that this was evident in the call. They tried to spin the call. Sondland basically affirms that the transcripts says what non-delusional people think it says.

The bottom line is Trump wasn't interested in Ukraine corruption. He was interested in investigating his political rival.

A Fox News poll found that a whopping 66% of people believe it was wrong for a president to ask a foreign leader to investigate his rival. It's not illegal but it's a gross abuse of power.
 
How did Sondland telling the "House impeachment investigators in an opening statement on Thursday that Trump indicated he was “skeptical” that Ukraine was serious about reform"? Seems to me that he reinforced Trump's concerns about Ukraine being serious about confronting corruption. He was disappointed that Trump allowed Giuliani to interfere in Ukraine but unlike you, I don't see where Sondland threw President Trump under the bus.

Yeah, like Trump said it had nothing to do with politics :roll:

I don't get people like you. It's not like Trump is paying you. It would be nice to be able to discuss things without people making and defending absurd claims.

At this point, we all know that Trump was trying to get Ukraine to investigate Biden for political purposes and was using the aid as leverage.

Ex-Pompeo Adviser: I Had to Quit After Trump’s Ukraine Call

McKinley went on to say he had to leave his job because of “what appears to be the utilization of our ambassadors overseas to advance domestic political objectives.” McKinley’s last day was Friday, though the 37-year State veteran told Pompeo more than a week earlier that he had to go.

Why can't we have honest discussions? You support Trump because you agree with his policies. His actions are wrong but you don't think it's wrong enough for him to be removed from office. That would be an honest position.
 
The bottom line is Trump wasn't interested in Ukraine corruption. He was interested in investigating his political rival.

There is no good evidence that Trump was interested in anti-corruption, in Ukraine or anywhere else.
All evidence indicates he was looking for help against his chief political rival in the 2020, and i helping counter the Russian/DNC narrative (Via crowdstrike conspiracy theory)

All evidence indicates the supporting cast of actual state department people were largely working on actually trying to help Ukraine, and encourage anti-corruption actions, etc.
All evidence indicates Rudy and a cast of criminals, was instead used directly by Trump to pursue Trump's agenda to get dirt on Biden.
 
There is no good evidence that Trump was interested in anti-corruption, in Ukraine or anywhere else.
All evidence indicates he was looking for help against his chief political rival in the 2020, and i helping counter the Russian/DNC narrative (Via crowdstrike conspiracy theory)

All evidence indicates the supporting cast of actual state department people were largely working on actually trying to help Ukraine, and encourage anti-corruption actions, etc.
All evidence indicates Rudy and a cast of criminals, was instead used directly by Trump to pursue Trump's agenda to get dirt on Biden.

But the icing on the cake is that he was introducing corruption into Ukraine with Rick Perry and Giuliani's goons trying to profit. Trump was extra corruption.
 
But the icing on the cake is that he was introducing corruption into Ukraine with Rick Perry and Giuliani's goons trying to profit. Trump was extra corruption.

It's some really sick ****. Ukraine, a fragile nation fighting against Putin's corruption, only to find Putin corrupted the U.S. sufficient to have the U.S. overtly trying to corrupt them just the same.
A real world tragedy.

The people Rudy enlisted to help Trump go outside the state department to corrupt Ukraine? Four individuals either already in jail for corruption or indicted. Trump supporters are cool with that, as long as "democrats' are angry.
 
How did Sondland telling the "House impeachment investigators in an opening statement on Thursday that Trump indicated he was “skeptical” that Ukraine was serious about reform"? Seems to me that he reinforced Trump's concerns about Ukraine being serious about confronting corruption. He was disappointed that Trump allowed Giuliani to interfere in Ukraine but unlike you, I don't see where Sondland threw President Trump under the bus.

In reading the statement it sounded more like “I was only involved in doing my job and had little to no idea about concerns of election interference until after the call”. His statement that asking for assistance with the election being wrong does not imply that such a thing actually occurred. Basically Sondland is saying that he had no reason to believe that aid was being withheld due to a desire to influence 2020.

The one thing Sondland does voice concern about is Giuliani but Giuliani’s actions seem to be FAR more focused on 2016 than 2020.
 
I read his entire opening statement and see nothing incriminating in it whatsoever. That little blurb you quoted as not is an indication of nothing.

Context is never the friend of the gullible and the indoctrinated.
 
Yeah, like Trump said it had nothing to do with politics :roll:

I don't get people like you. It's not like Trump is paying you. It would be nice to be able to discuss things without people making and defending absurd claims.

At this point, we all know that Trump was trying to get Ukraine to investigate Biden for political purposes and was using the aid as leverage.

Ex-Pompeo Adviser: I Had to Quit After Trump’s Ukraine Call



Why can't we have honest discussions? You support Trump because you agree with his policies. His actions are wrong but you don't think it's wrong enough for him to be removed from office. That would be an honest position.

People like me are after the facts.

I know how you have prejudged Trump.
Enough said.
 
Gordon Sondland Claims He Was 'Disappointed' With Trump's Ukraine Pressure | HuffPost
I guess Sondland does not want to go to jail as other Trump supporters have done. He seems like he is going to throw others under the bus before they can do that to him. I wonder how the rest of his testimony is going to go after his opening statement makes it certain he is going to protect himself.

Actually, if you read his opening statement, Sondland does NOT throw Trump and Giuliani under the bus. He accurately describes everything that he was involved in and even emphasizes the fact that Trump didn't want any quid pro quo from Ukraine.

That's going to chap Schiffty's ass.
 
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