So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297, *567*]

[Rucker61]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Highly unlikely.


If the odds were less than 50/50 which they easily were then fighting was the wrong choice.

How do you know the odds at that exactly moment in that exact tactical scenario? They aren't always the same odds.

Already proved it was 1.6% chance in your lifetime, and that's counting all the people who only got hurt because they tried to fight.


Correct, which is why it generally doesn't make sense to have a gun for self-defense.

Generally? So you admit that there are times when it does make sense to have a gun for self-defense?

But it's not better than 50% which are your odds of winning the shootout assuming there is only one attacker.

Absolutely incorrect. I'm a trained 3 Gun competitor using a firearm I'm very practiced with fighting on known grown in a scenario where I've reviewed and planned my actions prior. I thought you were "conditioned to play the odds". The odds aren't 50/50.

so the question becomes which method has the highest success rate? Answer: Not a Gun Fight.

What if the intruder has a gun? Sometimes that choice isn't yours to make.

But what's even better about them is none of them is that there is little or no chance any of those things will be the thing that kills you or a loved one.

Agreed.

I'm sure you would also prefer to have the option not to wear a seat belt.

I have that option. No one forces me to wear one. I still always do and yet driving is still a much riskier behavior than owning a gun is in my situation.

 

[Rucker61]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Yes, I have, but you have to actually be able to put two in the torso first. Not an easy thing to do with a pistol at any distance.

That's why I practice, and don't limit my options to a pistol.

 

[Rucker61]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

My deadbolt lock gives me pretty good confidence. So much that I don't even feel the need to have a loaded gun.

I don't have one either, even with the recent loss of my Rottie.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

MrWonka, you don't know about guns being used in self defense.

 

[Chillfolks]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Hope the charges are murder and not plead down to simply manslaughter. Those criminals chose to bring a weapon showing an intent to use deadly force if discovered. This whole situation was in their control to prevent they are solely and fully responsible for the outcome.

 

[Bullseye]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

https://abcnews4.com/news/crime-news/witness-homeowner-killed-during-north-charleston-home-invasion

A sad tragedy. This man was a member of one of those neighborhood chat groups on facebook I'm in. I've never met the man, but his facebook page is filled with right-wing propaganda and just one week before this happened shared a video of Archie Bunker railing on gun control. The details from the article are sparse, but from what I understand at least two men entered his home around 1 in the morning, and this guy tried to play Dirty Harry only to end up getting himself shot and killed. Police believe it was a random event. A couple of thugs were likely looking for a quick score. Trying to grab a laptop a cell phone some loose change laying around. They probably didn't even think the guy was home and would have easily left without incident had he not surprised them and confronted them. This guy was a military vet. He knew how to handle guns. He knew the layout of his home better than the intruders, yet he still lost the fight.

It's obviously sad, but this is the reality you face when you decide you're going to protect your stuff. Obviously, we can't know everything that happened here, but if he stayed out of sight and just yelled at them to leave from another room they probably would have bolted once they realized someone was home. Anything he might have lost would have been covered by homeowners insurance. Instead, he tried to be a hero and lost his life.

So to recap, the odds of having your home broken into are already insanely low. Even if your home is broken into, odds are very low you'll be home. Even if you're home your odds of even getting to your gun aren't good unless you keep it loaded and on your person at all times. If you do that though you're at risk of an accidental shooting that could result in the death of yourself or a loved one. And even if you just happen to be in the right place at the right time with your loaded gun ready to defend yourself you're still starting a shootout inside your home that you could easily lose no matter how good you think you are with your gun.

Your best defense in a home invasion is not a gun. It's a deadbolt, a motion sensor light, a decent sized dog with a loud bark, and an understanding that unless you have specific enemies they are almost certainly not here to kill you.

You have the right to protect and defend your home as you choose. As do I and everyone else in the country. You DON'T have the right to dictate HOW each of us does it. You don't take away everyone's right to drive because a few get drunk and hurt someone - including their own family members, you don't demand everyone fill in their swimming pool because there are a number of drownings each year, you don't demand hospitals close because of the large number of people killed each year through medical mistakes. The world isn't perfect, dude, mistakes happen, people do stupid ****. Fortunately, they're in a miniscule minority.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

I have a dog and a deadbolt. I live in a third story apartment with well-lit hallways. I'll be fine.

I know a case of a family that went out. When they came back home they found their house had been broken into and their german shepherd was beaten to death with a baseball bat.

 

[MrWonka]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

I know a case of a family that went out. When they came back home they found their house had been broken into and their german shepherd was beaten to death with a baseball bat.

How would owning a gun have changed that?

 

[VanceMack]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Did he **** up? Cause it sounds like he tried to do the exact same thing you would have done yourself?


Harold had a bunch of posts on his facebook wall attacking the players that were kneeling too. He was bragging about Trump securing the remains of Korean War vets(not proven yet). You seem like you guys would have had a lot in common with each other. It's a shame that his "battle mindset" turned him into a victim and that you're insulting him like that.

You dont know **** about me. I have said numerous times that I dont mind that they portest....I simply wish they knew what they protested about. Me...I dont let my patriotism or tender feelerz get hurt by someone elses opinions or actions.

And again....

You want to roll over on your back and piss yourself waiting for the cops to come save you or HOPING that they will 'just' beat the **** out of you or maybe rape someone important to you...
be my guest. I only hope if something bad DOES happen to you it will ONLY happen to you, and if there is anyone else in your home a neighbor or someone else is around to come to their aid.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Best way to be safe in your own home---don't have guns in it.

Fact.

Even better way to be safe in your own home--don't have stupid people in it, and that includes you if you fall into that category.

Fact.

 

[MrWonka]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

You have the right to protect and defend your home as you choose. As do I and everyone else in the country. You DON'T have the right to dictate HOW each of us does it.

I'm aware of that, but I do have a right to free speech, and I do have a right to explain to you how stupid it is to think that keeping a loaded gun in your house is going to make you safer. And the stats generally say I'm correct.

You don't take away everyone's right to drive because a few get drunk and hurt someone

Well, actually there's no such thing as a right to drive that's why they can, in fact, take your license away if you're caught drinking and driving even if you're just a little bit over the limit and didn't cause an accident.

you don't demand everyone fill in their swimming pool because there are a number of drownings each year

No, but generally if you have a swimming pool your insurance company will charge you a fortune unless there's a fence around it to keep random kids from falling in.

you don't demand hospitals close because of a large number of people killed each year through medical mistakes.

Right, but the Hippocratic oath exists for reason. Doctors and hospitals know full well that if the costs of medical decisions outweigh the potential benefits they don't do it. Using the same rational thinking would lead you to not keep a loaded gun in your home at all times.

The world isn't perfect, dude, mistakes happen, people do stupid ****. Fortunately, they're in a minuscule minority.

right, but we can try and help them make few mistakes, but showing them how historically bad certain decisions are. Decisions like starting a gunfight in your home against multiple intruders.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Then they will almost certainly come in force with numbers and already be armed.

In that case deadbolts, a well lighted area, and a dog wont help.

 

[MrWonka]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

And again....

You want to roll over on your back and piss yourself waiting for the cops to come to save you

Yeah, that didn't make sense this time you said it either, but like I said if you'd like to start a gunfight that could potentially get yourself killed over a laptop that's technically your choice, it's just a really dumb choice.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Yeah, that didn't make sense this time you said it either, but like I said if you'd like to start a gunfight that could potentially get yourself killed over a laptop that's technically your choice, it's just a really dumb choice.

You took one instance where the results turned out poorly for the individual and ignore the COUNTLESS instances where citizens protect themselves, family, and home...

It makes perfect sense.

If you roll over on your back and piss yourself waiting for the cops to come save you or HOPING that they will 'just' beat the **** out of you or maybe rape someone important to you...
be my guest. I only hope if something bad DOES happen to you it will ONLY happen to you, and if there is anyone else in your home a neighbor or someone else is around to come to their aid.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Of course in a real fight with a bigger opponent, Karate is likely not going to do **** to help you.

Dude you don't want to make such a claim without having much if any experience in the martial arts. I don't know what your background in the martial arts is or if you even have such a background but I will have you know I've been training in the martial arts most of my life and yes I've got a black belt, but I've gone way beyond that.

One of my favorite Mike Tyson quotes, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

Been there.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Actually, I do own a shotgun. It's kept taken apart, and it's actually at my parent's house. I used to deer hunt every year.

Good for you. So you do realize that guns have other uses besides self defense. They've got uses such as hunting. Now, if you want to have a gun for hunting that's your choice. If you choose not to keep guns for self defense that's also your choice. Some people do and that's their choice.

Just for fun, my uncle let a bunch of us shoot a Glock he had one time. I was by far the most accurate of anybody in our family. We tried simulating a self-defense situation where you have to quickly draw your gun and hit a target that was only 20 feet away. The rules were that you had to empty your clip in under 20 seconds. I was the only person who hit the target more than twice with 9 rounds in the clip. That included my dad who was a Vietnam vet and avid hunter.

You've never taken a class at Front Sight have you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfOqdpWAELE

 

[DebateChallenge]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

How would owning a gun have changed that?

The point is that a dog doesn't guarantee protection either and besides if you've got a beloved pet I don't think you would want it to get killed.

 

[MrWonka]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

In that case deadbolts, a well lighted area, and a dog wont help.

Yeah, actually it would because it's going to take them time and effort to get through the door with the deadbolt. If they try and shoot through my neighbors will hear gunshots. If they heard a dog on the other side freaking out they might think twice about even trying to come through not knowing what's on the other side. Since it's well lit it will be easy for someone to identify them or even see them coming if they're wearing ski masks. Since it's a third story apartment that's got open air breezeways when the police do get here(there's a courtesy officer one build over by the way) there will only be two exits and it will be easy for them to surround the building before they can escape. And since my dog and deadbolt gave me enough time, I can open my window kick out the screen and climb down the back wall.

 

[X Factor]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

see this is the mindset of the anti gun left. they think merely owning a gun is a bad choice but in the next sentence, they will try to pretend they aren't gun banners

Personally, I’m a little tired of firearm-phobes even thinking they’re owed some sort of explanation for why others have guns.

 

[fishnthec]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

21,175 so called patriots with guns chose to intentionally off themselves by utilizing their 2nd Amendment rights to do so, just last year!

Over 5,000 others killed themselves by accident with their own gun!

Sounds kinda' like a problem taking care of itself! LOL!

 

[Bullseye]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

I'm aware of that, but I do have a right to free speech, and I do have a right to explain to you how stupid it is to think that keeping a loaded gun in your house is going to make you safer. And the stats generally say I'm correct.

LOL, not if you look at the stat that shows the number of times a gun is used in defense.

Well, actually there's no such thing as a right to drive that's why they can, in fact, take your license away if you're caught drinking and driving even if you're just a little bit over the limit and didn't cause an accident.

Correct, I should have said "privilege". Point still remains; we don't take every drivers privilege away because a small number abuse it by drinking and driving.

No, but generally if you have a swimming pool your insurance company will charge you a fortune unless there's a fence around it to keep random kids from falling in.

Non sequitur. Kids still drown in pools and we still allow others to keep their pools

Right, but the Hippocratic oath exists for reason. Doctors and hospitals know full well that if the costs of medical decisions outweigh the potential benefits they don't do it. Using the same rational thinking would lead you to not keep a loaded gun in your home at all times.

And yet they DO make deadly mistakes, but we don't stop other doctor's and hospitals from operating

right, but we can try and help them make few mistakes, but showing them how historically bad certain decisions are. Decisions like starting a gunfight in your home against multiple intruders.

All you've shown is that this particular guy MAY have made a mistake.

 

[MrWonka]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

The point is that a dog doesn't guarantee protection either

All I need him to do is slow them down while I climb out the back window.

and besides, if you've got a beloved pet I don't think you would want it to get killed.

Even if I was home, I would need the same amount of time to get my gun ready as it would take to open the bedroom window and climb out. So my dog would be at the door freaking out first, and likely get shot or beaten with a bat regardless. Furthermore, if I had a gun and tried to shoot the burglars while my dog is jumping on them I might hit my dog myself.

It would be sad to lose my dog, but he is obviously willing to put himself at risk to protect me. The same logic works for you protecting your family. You may want to risk your life to protect your wife and children, but would they want you to die to save them if there was potentially a simple way to avoid it?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

Personally, I’m a little tired of firearm-phobes even thinking they’re owed some sort of explanation for why others have guns.

their attitudes are sufficiently good reasons for honest patriotic Americans to be well armed

 

[Rucker61]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

All I need him to do is slow them down while I climb out the back window.


Even if I was home, I would need the same amount of time to get my gun ready as it would take to open the bedroom window and climb out. So my dog would be at the door freaking out first, and likely get shot or beaten with a bat regardless. Furthermore, if I had a gun and tried to shoot the burglars while my dog is jumping on them I might hit my dog myself.

It would be sad to lose my dog, but he is obviously willing to put himself at risk to protect me. The same logic works for you protecting your family. You may want to risk your life to protect your wife and children, but would they want you to die to save them if there was potentially a simple way to avoid it?

Our bedrooms are on the second floor, and I agree that the dog is just the first tripwire. If they are still in the house while the dog is barking loudly, or if they even came in the house with a loudly barking dog, it would seem that simple theft isn't all that they are here for.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh?

21,175 so called patriots with guns chose to intentionally off themselves by utilizing their 2nd Amendment rights to do so, just last year!

Over 5,000 others killed themselves by accident with their own gun!

Sounds kinda' like a problem taking care of itself! LOL!

that's a bald faced lie

there wasn't anywhere near 5000 accidental gun fatalities in a year

and you have no clue who committed suicide