So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297, *567*]

[vegas giants]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” -- William Pitt (the Younger)

Prove it. Where are the numbers? Show us how many lives it will save and how it would be worth sacrificing their freedom?
I'm sure every tyrant in history has conned his/her people into trading their essential liberty for promises of safety.

No such proof is ever required for any law

 

[Jarhead1369]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

By law

There it is. Can't convince people using reason, so you have to force them using the law and threat of violence, imprisonment and economic ruin.

Hey, ya know, divorce is a big problem in this country too...how bout we pass a law a force people to stay married, no matter what? Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!

OK that's crazy. Let's stay reasonable here. How bout we require training BEFORE one can buy a car? (only training requirement is to OPERATE one, not to buy one). We should also require swimming lessons for the entire family and anyone else on the block before allowing a household to buy a pool. Heck, we can require a lifeguard too? Then of course there should be mandatory training before you can purchase a knife, or a chain saw, or a rip saw, or a circular saw, or a sawz-all, or a table saw, or a step ladder, or a bicycle, or heck, a bath tub for that matter. IT'LL SAVE LIVES, RIGHT?

 

[Anarchon]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

No. She should get the training. It will help her to defend herself

And if the violent stalker doesn't feel like waiting for her to get trained?

Also, you didn't answer this question: Why do you think you know what is best for this person?

Why should she listen to you? Should you listen to me? Why/Why not?

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

So you are ok with them taking my money when there's no evidence it's needed or makes a real difference (hence my cop examples.)

My ideas about Constitutional rights are different than yours I see. As is the need for useless, feel-good laws.

Not everyone has the common sense to be handling firearms.

There are idiots out there everyday making it look bad for competent gun owners, and I can pull up a 1000 articles to prove my point about them.

Your idea knee jerk reaction about constitutional rights is about as fictional as a Alex Jones scenario.

 

[Lursa]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Not everyone has the common sense to be handling firearms.

There are idiots out there everyday making it look bad for competent gun owners, and I can pull up a 1000 articles to prove my point about them.

Your idea knee jerk reaction about constitutional rights is about as fictional as a Alex Jones scenario.

And yet it is a Constitutional right and now you imply that you would like to restrict certain American that dont meet your standards from exercising that right?

There are idiots that make everything look bad or dangerous. There is nothing more dangerous than the abuse of our 1A rights and that has caused more deaths all thru history than anything with firearms.

"Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

 

[vegas giants]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

There it is. Can't convince people using reason, so you have to force them using the law and threat of violence, imprisonment and economic ruin.

Hey, ya know, divorce is a big problem in this country too...how bout we pass a law a force people to stay married, no matter what? Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!

OK that's crazy. Let's stay reasonable here. How bout we require training BEFORE one can buy a car? (only training requirement is to OPERATE one, not to buy one). We should also require swimming lessons for the entire family and anyone else on the block before allowing a household to buy a pool. Heck, we can require a lifeguard too? Then of course there should be mandatory training before you can purchase a knife, or a chain saw, or a rip saw, or a circular saw, or a sawz-all, or a table saw, or a step ladder, or a bicycle, or heck, a bath tub for that matter. IT'LL SAVE LIVES, RIGHT?

Feel free to push for any of those issues

 

[Lursa]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Your idea knee jerk reaction about constitutional rights is about as fictional as a Alex Jones scenario.

btw, I have no idea what he says as I've never listened to him.

And I'm a liberal.

 

[Jarhead1369]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

No such proof is ever required for any law

Incorrect. You've never been in elected office, have you. I have. Do you think we pass laws and ordinances just cuz, hey, we "think" it'll save lives?

Your neighbor: "Mr Commissioner, we'd like to change the zoning of our home next to Mr. Vegas Giants to commercial, so we can sell firearms training. It'll save lives!"

Council: "So moved, seconded and passed! So let it be written, so let it be done, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera!"

You: "wait, can't we discuss this, what about my property values"?

Council: "IT'LL SAVE LIVES, IT'S FOR THE CHIL'REN!"

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

btw, I have no idea what he says as I've never listened to him.

And I'm a liberal.

Still sounds alike.

 

[Jarhead1369]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Feel free to push for any of those issues

How did I know you were a true blue nanny-statist!

Like I said earlier, I'll leave the trying to force people to do what you want them to to you...it seems to be your calling. Me, I'll just keep on respecting their freedom and fighting you every step of the way.

 

[Jarhead1369]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Not everyone has the common sense to be handling firearms.

There are idiots out there everyday making it look bad for competent gun owners, and I can pull up a 1000 articles to prove my point about them.

Your idea knee jerk reaction about constitutional rights is about as fictional as a Alex Jones scenario.

just like there are idiots out there every day making it look bad for veterans who respect the oath they took to defend the Constitution...and the rights that document guarantees to all Americans...rights that our forefathers and our brothers and sisters in arms sacrificed all for.

 

[Rucker61]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

I don't want to stop them at all.

But I do want to see people grow up and act responsible about firearms.

I want people who understand the basic safety issues to be able to purchase as many firearms as they like.

I'm with you on this. I just will not cede unwarranted power to the government. For anything.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

just like there are idiots out there every day making it look bad for veterans who respect the oath they took to defend the Constitution...and the rights that document guarantees to all Americans...rights that our forefathers and our brothers and sisters in arms sacrificed all for.

And this has what to do with firearms and looking bad?

 

[Jarhead1369]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Common sense.

There is a reason why 20' ladders come with 40 freaking annoying safety stickers.

How much training? How about a 2-3 hour introduction with a qualified trainer.

Are you seriously comparing stickers to mandatory training? Hell, plaster all the stickers and booklets you want on and in that gun box...I got no problem with that (cept maybe having the costs passed on by the manufacturer). It's this notion of forcing people to have some kind of training in order to exercise their God-given rights, as guaranteed by the Constitution, that I have a problem with. Lord knows that people have done more damage to this country via their vote than by all the guns in the land...yet we still don't allow poll taxes, educational requirements or even ID requirements in many cases.

 

[Rucker61]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Common sense.

There is a reason why 20' ladders come with 40 freaking annoying safety stickers.

How much training? How about a 2-3 hour introduction with a qualified trainer.

Sounds great. It would be a great volunteer opportunity, with support from ammunition companies.

 

[Jarhead1369]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

And this has what to do with firearms and looking bad?

It means that idiots being idiots is not an acceptable reason to infringe upon god-given AND constitutionally guaranteed rights.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Incorrect. You've never been in elected office, have you. I have. Do you think we pass laws and ordinances just cuz, hey, we "think" it'll save lives?

Where is proof required for a law?

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Are you seriously comparing stickers to mandatory training? Hell, plaster all the stickers and booklets you want on and in that gun box...I got no problem with that (cept maybe having the costs passed on by the manufacturer). It's this notion of forcing people to have some kind of training in order to exercise their God-given rights, as guaranteed by the Constitution, that I have a problem with. Lord knows that people have done more damage to this country via their vote than by all the guns in the land...yet we still don't allow poll taxes, educational requirements etc. Heck we don't even require photo IDs in many cases!

Stickers to common sense (snark) for the people with lack of...….. It flew right over your head I guess.

I have a god given right to climb a ladder without being savvy to them, and I can also fall from a ladder because I was to stupid to observe basic safety.

Ladders rarely kill innocent bystanders like guns do in the hands of a incompetent handler.


Even the Marines do not let recruits touch a weapon until they are trained...……………………………. right jarhead? They do this for a reason. So don't give me your Constitutional rights garbage.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

How did I know you were a true blue nanny-statist!

Like I said earlier, I'll leave the trying to force people to do what you want them to to you...it seems to be your calling. Me, I'll just keep on respecting their freedom and fighting you every step of the way.

Victory!!!!!!!!

 

[Jarhead1369]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

And I'm a liberal.

Just one more example of how much common ground there is on some of the more important issues of freedom and liberty across all the little boxes and labels that keep us divided. If only we could unite on those, throw all the bums that profit from keeping us divided out of their positions of power and influence, and then work on the littler stuff like the differences between marriage as a religious custom and a civil status.

 

[Rucker61]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Stickers to common sense (snark) for the people with lack of...….. It flew right over your head I guess.

I have a god given right to climb a ladder without being savvy to them, and I can also fall from a ladder because I was to stupid to observe basic safety.

Ladders rarely kill innocent bystanders like guns do in the hands of a incompetent handler.


Even the Marines do not let recruits touch a weapon until they are trained...……………………………. right jarhead? They do this for a reason. So don't give me your Constitutional rights garbage.

Marine recruits don't have the right to keep and bear arms, or the right to free speech, etc.

 

[Jarhead1369]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Stickers to common sense (snark) for the people with lack of...….. It flew right over your head I guess.

I have a god given right to climb a ladder without being savvy to them, and I can also fall from a ladder because I was to stupid to observe basic safety.

Ladders rarely kill innocent bystanders like guns do in the hands of a incompetent handler.


Even the Marines do not let recruits touch a weapon until they are trained...……………………………. right jarhead? They do this for a reason. So don't give me your Constitutional rights garbage.

Incorrect. Even recruits are allowed to OWN firearms...and just like everyone else in the military they can check them into the armory at whatever post they are stationed at. There is no requirement that one must give up their firearms upon enlistment until we train them. Heck, they even let squids own firearms!

That you think the our rights guaranteed under the Constitution, that we both took an oath to defend, is "garbage" is telling.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Incorrect. Even recruits are allowed to OWN firearms...and just like everyone else in the military they can check them into the armory at whatever post they are stationed at. There is no requirement that one must give up their firearms upon enlistment until we train them. Heck, they even let squids own firearms!

That you think the our rights guaranteed under the Constitution, that we both took an oath to defend, is "garbage" is telling.

BS

A recruit Marine doesn't touch a firearm until a DI can trust him with it.

Where is the recruit's constitutional rights when this happens?

 

[Rucker61]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

BS

A recruit Marine doesn't touch a firearm until a DI can trust him with it.

Where is the recruit's constitutional rights when this happens?

It's not his weapon. It's government property. And recruits voluntarily give up rights protected under the Constitution.

 

[Jarhead1369]

Re: So you want to protect your home huh? [W:297]

Marine recruits don't have the right to keep and bear arms, or the right to free speech, etc.

Again, incorrect. Marine recruits are not allowed to keep a firearm because they live in the barracks, and just like any active duty Marine or otherwise who lives in the barracks or base housing. If they do own a firearm, they can check it into the base armory and check it out when they want to take it off base. Obviously recruits never get liberty, so it would be pointless for them to bring their freakin firearms with them to boot camp.

As far as free speech, they have every right to free speech that anyone else has. As drill instructors, we reserve the right to PT the living dawg doo out of them for speaking out of turn...or writing something in a letter home that reflects badly on on the corps their summer camp experience, but that is all in the name of teaching them discipline. On the other hand, I rather doubt that a court would uphold us "administratively" dropping and discharging a recruit for something he said that could not be charged under the UCMJ and tried via a courts-martial. Heck, I had more freedom of speech in boot than I did living at home during high school. In boot I could get away with swearing!