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Simple Question on Gun Registration.

vegas giants said:
Who did the criminals get the guns from in the first place? Are you saying they stole ALL of them? LOL
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They didn't get them from me. Unlikely they bought them at a gun show or FFL dealer. Probably didn't spend a Saturday morning going from private purchaser to private purchaser looking for deals.

Many of them are stolen. Sometimes from each other. Some walk across our open borders.
 
vegas giants said:
Former gun owner and ten years active duty military. Then you know what I am saying is factually correct
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VG, mostly I have no idea what you are trying to say.
 
vegas giants said:
I can not make this simpler. Right now you have no idea if you are selling to a criminal in a private sale. You should at least be required to find out
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Incorrect. First if I ever buy a gun and later decide I no longer need it. I will sell it or gift it to someone I know. I'm certainly not going to post it on Craigslist.

Second, if you've ever read any of my old posts in this Forum you will note two ideals.

1. That when a person has fully served their time for the crime, I support the full return of all rights. If society thinks the specific perpetrator is a permanent threat? Either incarcerate him/her for life, or exercise the death penalty.

2. That the right to keep and bear arms is an INDIVIDUAL right, which has always and will always exist as a corollary of one's right to self-defense; with or without the protection of the Constitution.

vegas giants said:
You are not understanding that now in a private sale you do not even need to find out if you are selling to a criminal or not
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Nor should you in a private sale. See item 2 above. Sell the gun and let the law decide if the use is criminal or not. That's what the law is for. :shrug:

vegas giants said:
No. A straw sale means it is purchased for another person. You do not need to find out if he is a criminal or not. And therein lies the problem
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You keep deflecting from Rucker61's point. Straw sales will go on, legally or illegally anyway. People should not have to register their weapons. See 1 and 2 above.

vegas giants said:
They should not be. You may trust your family but I don't or trust you. I don't know you.
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vegas giants said:
I do not like this system based on me trusting you are a good guy. No thanks. The honor system is ridiculous and defeats the entire purpose
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You don't have to trust me, and I don't have to trust you. You and I are each responsible for our own safety and security. History has shown time and again that empowering "Big Brother" government to secure your individual safety is misplaced trust.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Incorrect. First if I ever buy a gun and later decide I no longer need it. I will sell it or gift it to someone I know. I'm certainly not going to post it on Craigslist.

Second, if you've ever read any of my old posts in this Forum you will note two ideals.

1. That when a person has fully served their time for the crime, I support the full return of all rights. If society thinks the specific perpetrator is a permanent threat? Either incarcerate him/her for life, or exercise the death penalty.

2. That the right to keep and bear arms is an INDIVIDUAL right, which has always and will always exist as part of one's right to self-defense; with or without the protection of the Constitution.



Nor should you in a private sale. See item 2 above. Sell the gun and let the law decide if the use is criminal or not. That's what the law is for. :shrug:



You keep deflecting from Rucker61's point. Straw sales will go on, legally or illegally anyway. People should not have to register their weapons. See 1 and 2 above.

vegas giants said:
They should not be. You may trust your family but I don't or trust you. I don't know you[/QUOTE



You don't have to trust me, and I don't have to trust you. You and I are each responsible for out own safety and security. Empowering "Big Brother" government to secure your individual safety is misplaced trust.
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Then we need not have border control or customs. Trust me I'm a citizen. Lol
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vegas giants said:
Captain Adverse said:
Incorrect. First if I ever buy a gun and later decide I no longer need it. I will sell it or gift it to someone I know. I'm certainly not going to post it on Craigslist.

Second, if you've ever read any of my old posts in this Forum you will note two ideals.

1. That when a person has fully served their time for the crime, I support the full return of all rights. If society thinks the specific perpetrator is a permanent threat? Either incarcerate him/her for life, or exercise the death penalty.

2. That the right to keep and bear arms is an INDIVIDUAL right, which has always and will always exist as part of one's right to self-defense; with or without the protection of the Constitution.

Nor should you in a private sale. See item 2 above. Sell the gun and let the law decide if the use is criminal or not. That's what the law is for. :shrug:

You keep deflecting from Rucker61's point. Straw sales will go on, legally or illegally anyway. People should not have to register their weapons. See 1 and 2 above.

You don't have to trust me, and I don't have to trust you. You and I are each responsible for out own safety and security. Empowering "Big Brother" government to secure your individual safety is misplaced trust.
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Then we need not have border control or customs. Trust me I'm a citizen. Lol
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Red herring. :roll:

IMO they have the right to keep and bear arms...in their own country of origin or here if they immigrate legally.

Immigration has nothing to do with the right to keep and bear arms. It has to do with citizenship civil rights, property rights, and national integrity.

Please don't derail the thread.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Red herring. :roll:

IMO they have the right to keep and bear arms...in their own country of origin or here if they immigrate legally.

Immigration has nothing to do with gun rights. It has everything to do with property rights and national integrity.

Please don't derail the thread.
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And in my opinion and the opinion of scotus you have the right to bear arms but that right is subject to restrictions like every other right
 
Bucky said:
Does common sense restriction on hate speech restrict it? Answer the question.
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The restriction on hate speech does nothing to prevent hate speech in those that don't care. It simply is a vehicle to punish hate speech when it occurs. It "stops" nothing.
 
vegas giants said:
You can own guns but like all rights they are subject to restriction
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They are subject to restriction when and if those rights are abused. Just as they are in the case of firearms.
 
BretJ said:
They are subject to restriction when and if those rights are abused. Just as they are in the case of firearms.
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Prior restraint can be applied to rights. It certainly can be applied to guns
 
vegas giants said:
And in my opinion and the opinion of scotus you have the right to bear arms but that right is subject to restrictions like every other right
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No "right" is absolute. However, in order to restrict a Constitutionally protected individual right SCOTUS will review the law following the strict scrutiny standard.

The government must show that its policy is necessary to achieve a compelling state interest. If this is proved, the state must then demonstrate that the legislation is narrowly tailored to achieve the intended result.

What would be the "compelling state interest" requiring universal registration of firearms?
 
Captain Adverse said:
No "right" is absolute. However, in order to restrict a Constitutionally protected individual right SCOTUS will review the law following the strict scrutiny standard.

The government must show that its policy is necessary to achieve a compelling state interest. If this is proved, the state must then demonstrate that the legislation is narrowly tailored to achieve the intended result.

What would be the "compelling state interest" requiring universal registration of firearms?
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Registration makes it far more difficult to have straw purchases and for guns to get in the hands of criminals. You may feel this does not meet the strict scrutiny standard but I feel it certainly does. Scotus gets the final say. I say make the law and let them decide
 
vegas giants said:
Registration makes it far more difficult to have straw purchases and for guns to get in the hands of criminals. You may feel this does not meet the strict scrutiny standard but I feel it certainly does. Scotus gets the final say. I say make the law and let them decide
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Again, how does it make it far more difficult?
 
BretJ said:
Again, how does it make it far more difficult?
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I have said it many times. If guns are registered on the initial sale anyone who then sells that gun without it being registered to that person is responsible for what happens with that gun
 
Captain Adverse said:
The Constitution identifies the right to keep and bear arms (i.e. to own and carry them) as an individual right like freedom of expression and freedom of worship. This has finally been confirmed by SCOTUS decisions in McDonald and Heller.

I've a very simple question for those who advocate registration of guns in any form...what purpose is served by requiring gun registration?

Here are some common purposes for registration:

1. Vehicle registration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_registration

2. Voter Registration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_registration

3. Sex offender registration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender_registry

Example #1 is about crime detection and taxation, #2 is about controlling access to something you are otherwise entitled to, while #3 is about keeping track of something.

So it seems to me that the purpose of gun registration would fall into one or more (if not all) of these categories; thus gun control is often justified as a means to more easily detect a gun used in a crime, to tax gun owners, to authorize ownership, and to keep track of which citizens own guns.

I wonder which of the above, or other reasons those who advocate for gun registration consider valid and why.

Why should they be taxed?

How does it detect crime?

Why control access (at least to those with no violent criminal record)?

Ultimately, why keep track of who owns, what they own, and where they are?
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Bear in mind criminals do not register their guns, and are not required to by law (SCOTUS) because it would be self-incrimination.

Notta lotta use for crime prevention really.
 
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