Siberian Tiger in Alaska

[Dittohead not!]

So are the earthquakes. We just had another magnitude 7.8 quake a couple days ago. I've experienced two quakes that were even larger, and one that lasted for more than 2 minutes before it stopped shaking. Having grown up in southern California I quite like earthquakes when they are under magnitude 5.0, but they are not for everyone. I have also been covered with volcanic ash on two separate occasions by Mount Redoubt and Mount Spurr.

The problem with living in geographically beautiful areas is they tend to be very young, geologically speaking, and that tends to make them dangerous places to live.

There are the earthquakes for sure. We have them here, too, as you know. I could do without the big ones. Little ones are no problem. The one I remember best was in Oroville, in Northern California. Oro is Spanish for gold, so gold town was built on dredger tailings left from gold mining. these tailings are made of round rocks from baseball to bowling ball size, and are a hundred feet or so deep. Imagine being in a giant shaker filled with such rocks. It sounded like a freight train going through the living room.

Of course, I've never experienced a train going through the living room, but I imagine that's about what it would sound like.

 

[JANFU]

Siberian tigers - if that's what it is - are already endangered.

Far to many think, WTH, another species disappears, and does not see the longer term damages to the ecology.

And Cons slams Dems for giving a ****.

 

[longview]

Alaska is BIG, and the population is low, it is not totally unreasonable that a small population of tigers, always existed.
In my part of Texas, the last document jaguar was killed about 1901. (they called it a Mexican Tiger)
It was killed roughly in the area where Interstate I-45 hits Galveston Bay.
Since that time, plenty of people have claimed to have seen black panthers, (Cougars do not have a black phase, but Jaguars do)
I wonder if any the the indigenous people have tiger legends in their history?

 

[Drawdown]

You should watch the cheesy movie 40 days of Night

That movie was actually a great concept. It failed in it delivery, though not as horribly as some.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Alaska is BIG, and the population is low, it is not totally unreasonable that a small population of tigers, always existed.
In my part of Texas, the last document jaguar was killed about 1901. (they called it a Mexican Tiger)
It was killed roughly in the area where Interstate I-45 hits Galveston Bay.
Since that time, plenty of people have claimed to have seen black panthers, (Cougars do not have a black phase, but Jaguars do)
I wonder if any the the indigenous people have tiger legends in their history?

Despite the name,(Siberian) these animals don't range much further north than the Russian/Chinese border. This is approximately the same latitude as the U.S./Canadian border. To get to a point far enough north where they could realistically cross a frozen Bearing Sea to get to Alaska, they would have to travel about 2,000 miles from the northernmost point of their current range.

This seems pretty unrealistic.

 

[longview]

Despite the name,(Siberian) these animals don't range much further north than the Russian/Chinese border. This is approximately the same latitude as the U.S./Canadian border. To get to a point far enough north where they could realistically cross a frozen Bearing Sea to get to Alaska, they would have to travel about 2,000 miles from the northernmost point of their current range.

This seems pretty unrealistic.

I agree that it is unlikely a Tiger came across the ice, I was thinking more like a small pocket of native tigers from the past.
I think latitudes are not equal in temperature, so Southwest Alaska, could have a similar temperature as the Russian/Chinese border.
For example London if further north than Saint Johns Newfoundland, but is MUCH warmer.

 

[Lursa]

Alaska is BIG, and the population is low, it is not totally unreasonable that a small population of tigers, always existed.
In my part of Texas, the last document jaguar was killed about 1901. (they called it a Mexican Tiger)
It was killed roughly in the area where Interstate I-45 hits Galveston Bay.
Since that time, plenty of people have claimed to have seen black panthers, (Cougars do not have a black phase, but Jaguars do)
I wonder if any the the indigenous people have tiger legends in their history?

Jags have been sighted in the Huachucas and the Baboquirviris, maybe even the Chiricahuas (all isolated mt ranges on the AZ/Mex border). But the building of fences to prevent illegal immigration has created another barrier to their returning to their old territory.

A friend of ours used to work at the Tuscon Desert Museum and they (that zoo) were tracking that so far incidental migration back N.

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[longview]

Jags have been sighted in the Huachucas and the Baboquirviris, maybe even the Chiricahuas (all isolated mt ranges on the AZ/Mex border). But the building of fences to prevent illegal immigration has created another barrier to their returning to their old territory.

A friend of ours used to work at the Tuscon Desert Museum and they (that zoo) were tracking that so far incidental migration back N.

While sighting are rare, I think there have been 6 or 7 confirmed sightings in the last decade or two, in Arizona and New Mexico.
I believe there may also be a population in the Big Thicket in East Texas, although nothing confirmed in the last century.
Of course it is also possible that the Black panther reported by so many hunters, is the smaller Jaguarundi,
which without something to judge scale, could look like a black phase Jaguar.

 

[Glitch]

Alaska is BIG, and the population is low, it is not totally unreasonable that a small population of tigers, always existed.
In my part of Texas, the last document jaguar was killed about 1901. (they called it a Mexican Tiger)
It was killed roughly in the area where Interstate I-45 hits Galveston Bay.
Since that time, plenty of people have claimed to have seen black panthers, (Cougars do not have a black phase, but Jaguars do)
I wonder if any the the indigenous people have tiger legends in their history?

It is totally unreasonable that a population, no matter how small, of tigers could have existed in Alaska for the last 100,000 years without anyone noticing. Tigers require a large territory of several square miles, that is relatively wolf-free, in which to hunt. I know of no place in Alaska, other than islands, that is free from wolves.

While there have been reports of mountain lions in Alaska, the only feline that is currently native to Alaska is the lynx or bobcat, and they aren't very big. They are also very shy and illusive. In all the years I have lived in Alaska I have only seen one in the wild.

 

[Glitch]

I agree that it is unlikely a Tiger came across the ice, I was thinking more like a small pocket of native tigers from the past.
I think latitudes are not equal in temperature, so Southwest Alaska, could have a similar temperature as the Russian/Chinese border.
For example London if further north than Saint Johns Newfoundland, but is MUCH warmer.

Temperature-wise, southwestern and south-central Alaska are much warmer during the Winter and cooler during the Summer than the Russian/Chinese border. Just as London is warmed by the Atlantic Conveyor that brings the warm waters up from the Gulf of Mexico, Alaska too is warmed by the Kuroshio Current that brings the warm waters up from Japan and the south China seas. Temperatures at 60°N during the Winter in Alaska aren't any worse than temperatures around 40°N in the mid-west during the Winter.

 

[jmotivator]

Despite the name,(Siberian) these animals don't range much further north than the Russian/Chinese border. This is approximately the same latitude as the U.S./Canadian border. To get to a point far enough north where they could realistically cross a frozen Bearing Sea to get to Alaska, they would have to travel about 2,000 miles from the northernmost point of their current range.

This seems pretty unrealistic.

Agreed. I think it is far more likely this is a lion that was released by an owner that couldn't afford to keep it anymore.

 

[longview]

It is totally unreasonable that a population, no matter how small, of tigers could have existed in Alaska for the last 100,000 years without anyone noticing. Tigers require a large territory of several square miles, that is relatively wolf-free, in which to hunt. I know of no place in Alaska, other than islands, that is free from wolves.

While there have been reports of mountain lions in Alaska, the only feline that is currently native to Alaska is the lynx or bobcat, and they aren't very big. They are also very shy and illusive. In all the years I have lived in Alaska I have only seen one in the wild.

I understand that the chances are small, but the climate is not too different than the Tigers native habitat, and Alaska is really BIG!
That was why I asked if tigers show up in any of the indigenous people's mythology.
I wonder if any of the Wolf research, could show areas that wolves do not go?

 

[Glitch]

I understand that the chances are small, but the climate is not too different than the Tigers native habitat, and Alaska is really BIG!
That was why I asked if tigers show up in any of the indigenous people's mythology.
I wonder if any of the Wolf research, could show areas that wolves do not go?

Tigers use to be native to Alaska, but according to the fossil record that was some 100,000 years ago. The American lion, the American camel, mammoths, mastodons, the Short-Faced bear, and other mega-fauna stayed around until about 11,700-15,000 years ago. The mega-fauna also disappeared throughout Europe at the beginning of the Holocene Interglacial period.

There are no tigers depicted in native Tlingit, Athabaskan, or Kluti Kaah culture or mythology, but I cannot say I'm familiar with the other ~20 native cultures in Alaska. Considering tigers disappeared from Alaska about 60,000 to 70,000 years before humans arrived on the North American continent, it is unlikely they would include tigers in their culture or mythology.

Could tigers be reintroduced to Alaska? The weather is nicer, and the terrain and flora are similar. There is also plenty of game. Caribou migrate to the north slope in the Spring to give birth, but they spend their Winters in south-central and southwestern Alaska. (Speaking of which, caribou season begins in 4 days.)

The biggest issue is going to be competing with wolves for the available game. Not directly of course, but by depleting the tiger's food source. Wolves have an advantage over tigers in that they are more of them, and they are coursing predators while the tiger is an ambush predator and does not procreate as profusely as wolves. It may have been wolves that forced the tigers out of North America 100,000 years ago.

 

[longview]

Tigers use to be native to Alaska, but according to the fossil record that was some 100,000 years ago. The American lion, the American camel, mammoths, mastodons, the Short-Faced bear, and other mega-fauna stayed around until about 11,700-15,000 years ago. The mega-fauna also disappeared throughout Europe at the beginning of the Holocene Interglacial period.

There are no tigers depicted in native Tlingit, Athabaskan, or Kluti Kaah culture or mythology, but I cannot say I'm familiar with the other ~20 native cultures in Alaska. Considering tigers disappeared from Alaska about 60,000 to 70,000 years before humans arrived on the North American continent, it is unlikely they would include tigers in their culture or mythology.

Could tigers be reintroduced to Alaska? The weather is nicer, and the terrain and flora are similar. There is also plenty of game. Caribou migrate to the north slope in the Spring to give birth, but they spend their Winters in south-central and southwestern Alaska. (Speaking of which, caribou season begins in 4 days.)

The biggest issue is going to be competing with wolves for the available game. Not directly of course, but by depleting the tiger's food source. Wolves have an advantage over tigers in that they are more of them, and they are coursing predators while the tiger is an ambush predator and does not procreate as profusely as wolves. It may have been wolves that forced the tigers out of North America 100,000 years ago.

If there were even a small tiger population, I think tigers would show up in the mythology, since they do not,
and things like BigFoot do, it is a good chance that there are NO native tigers.

 

[Glitch]

If there were even a small tiger population, I think tigers would show up in the mythology, since they do not,
and things like BigFoot do, it is a good chance that there are NO native tigers.

The Alaskan natives that live in southwestern Alaska are called the Central Yup'ik, and they are closely related to the Siberian Yup'ik. I'm not familiar with their culture or mythology.

There are also the Aleutians, but since they are confined to the islands of southwestern Alaska, I think we can safely rule out any experiences they may have had with tigers, or wolves, or any other critter not specifically brought to those islands.

 

[longview]

The Alaskan natives that live in southwestern Alaska are called the Central Yup'ik, and they are closely related to the Siberian Yup'ik. I'm not familiar with their culture or mythology.

There are also the Aleutians, but since they are confined to the islands of southwestern Alaska, I think we can safely rule out any experiences they may have had with tigers, or wolves, or any other critter not specifically brought to those islands.

It is strange what is carried in mythology, There was a story about giant sloths preserved in the mythology
of Argentina, that even had a cave of where the giant sloths had lived.
The strange thing was the native name for the Giant sloth, was arrow proof.
Years later, a study of giant sloths revealed that they had a bony layer under their skin that would have rendered
them effectively arrow proof, but the only way for a human tribe to have that name, is that someone recalled shooting arrows at one!

 

[Glitch]

It is strange what is carried in mythology, There was a story about giant sloths preserved in the mythology
of Argentina, that even had a cave of where the giant sloths had lived.
The strange thing was the native name for the Giant sloth, was arrow proof.
Years later, a study of giant sloths revealed that they had a bony layer under their skin that would have rendered
them effectively arrow proof, but the only way for a human tribe to have that name, is that someone recalled shooting arrows at one!

Megatherium was around until 11,700 years ago, and was one of the mega-fauna to die out in South America as the Holocene Interglacial Period began. Since humans arrived in South America around 30,000 years ago there would have been ~18,300 years of overlap when both existed at the same time in the same place.

Just at a glance, it would appear the Yup'ik myths are orientated around birds primarily, but also other critters like hares. Similar to the Tlingit, the Yup'ik hold the raven in high regard. Like most native myths involving animals, they can talk with the animals in their mythology and the animals can talk back.

Yupik Legends (Folklore, Myths, and Traditional Indian Stories)
The Eskimo of Siberia Index