Should We Redesign Payroll Taxes?

[Nap]

There are islands for sale where you do not need society and can all the individual freedom you desire.

And if I could afford it, I would be there.

 

[Crystal]

Agree! Except for the first $35,000 exclusion. Tax every last penny!

 

[haymarket]

I am not into punishing people who have done well for themselves in the form of taxation. We should all be taxed at an equal rate! Every last one of us! So do away with the progressive tax tables and institute a fair flat tax on absolutely all income!

So you are in favor of taxing all money that goes into a persons pocket or accounts then?

 

[Lord of Planar]

Currently we have a bizarre tax system where workers and employers both contribute equally to payroll taxes to pay for social security and medicare. On its own, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. These are programs that do a lot of good and provide for people in retirement. Here's the problem: these payroll taxes do not apply to those who make a living off of investments, and they also do not apply to those who make more than a certain amount of money. Here's where it gets even worse, if you are self-employed, you are effectively playing twice the tax, since you are the employer and employee.

What we've set up is a tax scheme that effectively discourages labor, discourages entrepreneurship, and encourages only investment. On top of that, it's not solvent. So we need to change it. Here's my proposal?

Let's stop treating this like a savings account and treat it like it actually is: social welfare. Make the tax apply to high income earners, not just middle income earners. Make it apply not just to wage income, but to all sources of income. This does mean that yes, now the rich can collect social security, but we already a maximum benefit worked into the system, so on net we'll be collecting much more revenue.

This fix will treat all sources of income equally and fix the budget issues.

Thoughts?

Investments aren't taxed for a few reasons. there is a reason why capital gains is less than income tax as well. My proposal for FICA, is to give the employees more in pay and then make the employees pay the full cost, so they see it. Call it a social tax instead of FICA. Then raise or lower it as needed to cover social spending.

Lets see how fast liberals are then to demand more social spending...

 

[Lord of Planar]

So if you make good money and pay into Social Security your benefit will be capped. Basically, you just want to take someones wages and hand them to other people.

Why should I pay SS tax on a half million dollar salary if my benefit will be capped at $48k/yr? How is that fair and why would I possibly agree to such terms?

Liberals just love their redistribution of wealth. They believe the government should just allow us to keep some of it.

 

[rickc]

Agree! Except for the first $35,000 exclusion. Tax every last penny!

well that is fine but you will give all that $35,000 back to the low wage earners in welfare, food.stamps, subsidized housing and subsidized health care.

my question is why should we subsidize walmart and mcdonalds and all that myriad of low wage companies labor force. if they paid a living wage then their employees could be tax paying home owning productive consumers in our society.

 

[Crystal]

So you are in favor of taxing all money that goes into a persons pocket or accounts then?

Every single dime from every single person!

 

[Crystal]

well that is fine but you will give all that $35,000 back to the low wage earners in welfare, food.stamps, subsidized housing and subsidized health care.

my question is why should we subsidize walmart and mcdonalds and all that myriad of low wage companies labor force. if they paid a living wage then their employees could be tax paying home owning productive consumers in our society.

They will pay taxes on every single dime given to them! At the exact same rate everyone else pays!!

 

[rickc]

They will pay taxes on every single dime given to them! At the exact same rate everyone else pays!!

don't hold your breath.

we have a progressive tax system for a reason even though republicans since Reagan have been able to legislate it's near demise.

the pendulum will soon start to swing back to the 90% of Americans who were screwed by trickle.down.

 

[joko104]

So if you make good money and pay into Social Security your benefit will be capped. Basically, you just want to take someones wages and hand them to other people.

Why should I pay SS tax on a half million dollar salary if my benefit will be capped at $48k/yr? How is that fair and why would I possibly agree to such terms?

When social security was created the average live span of a man was age 67. You would agree that it is "fair" if the government ended men's lives the last day of their life at age 67, correct?

 

[Lutherf]

When social security was created the average live span of a man was age 67. You would agree that it is "fair" if the government ended men's lives the last day of their life at age 67, correct?

I have no idea where that came from but no.

 

[Aberration]

There are islands for sale where you do not need society and can all the individual freedom you desire.

There are also small socialist communes all over the world...

 

[haymarket]

There are also small socialist communes all over the world...

yes there are - and people who want that sort of thing should seek them out. I happen to love the USA so will stay right here.

 

[Conservative]

Currently we have a bizarre tax system where workers and employers both contribute equally to payroll taxes to pay for social security and medicare. On its own, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. These are programs that do a lot of good and provide for people in retirement. Here's the problem: these payroll taxes do not apply to those who make a living off of investments, and they also do not apply to those who make more than a certain amount of money. Here's where it gets even worse, if you are self-employed, you are effectively playing twice the tax, since you are the employer and employee.

What we've set up is a tax scheme that effectively discourages labor, discourages entrepreneurship, and encourages only investment. On top of that, it's not solvent. So we need to change it. Here's my proposal?

Let's stop treating this like a savings account and treat it like it actually is: social welfare. Make the tax apply to high income earners, not just middle income earners. Make it apply not just to wage income, but to all sources of income. This does mean that yes, now the rich can collect social security, but we already a maximum benefit worked into the system, so on net we'll be collecting much more revenue.

This fix will treat all sources of income equally and fix the budget issues.

Thoughts?

There is truly a misconception on the Payroll taxes which was a forced contribution created to as you said fund SS and Medicare. The problem is not the tax itself but the use of the taxes as that tax was put on budget by LBJ and is now part of the unified budget where every dollar is treated the same way and can be spent on whatever the bureaucrats want to spend it on. that is the problem and why we have an unfunded liability now as the Congress used the funds to pay for whatever they wanted starting with the Vietnam War.

Millions of Americans already don't receive SS and Medicare thus don't contribute but the vast majority do and although I have never supported FORCED contributions I do understand their purpose. SS was designed to be a retirement SUPPLEMENT not sole retirement but over the years it has become sole retirement for so many and is truly a very poor return on one's investment as a simple savings account, untouchable would be better. Why only charge the wealthy? You will never generate the funding for the masses.

 

[Conservative]

yes there are - and people who want that sort of thing should seek them out. I happen to love the USA so will stay right here.

Is there ever going to come a time when you stop thinking only with your heart and use your brain? SS and Medicare were created simply as a funding source for the federal bureaucracy to buy votes all under the claims of providing a supplement for people in their retirement. Supposed good intentions on paper but poor implementation as usual by bureaucrats who simply buy votes with that money which is why it is now unfunded. It would have never been unfunded has it been used as created.

 

[haymarket]

Is there ever going to come a time when you stop thinking only with your heart and use your brain?

I will not dignify that personal insult with any waste of my time more than it took to type these few words.

 

[Conservative]

I will not dignify that personal insult with any waste of my time more than it took to type these few words.

Seems like a very valid question to me, what personal attack? A lot of people think with their hearts including you as you have nothing to stand on with this issue.

 

[ludin]

So if you make good money and pay into Social Security your benefit will be capped. Basically, you just want to take someones wages and hand them to other people.

Why should I pay SS tax on a half million dollar salary if my benefit will be capped at $48k/yr? How is that fair and why would I possibly agree to such terms?

That is the problem with ponzi scheme's they soon run out of other peoples money and the only way to fix it is to take more of other peoples money.
that is basically what the OP is wanting to do.

instead of fixing the ponzi scheme to not be a ponzie scheme

 

[Conservative]

I will not dignify that personal insult with any waste of my time more than it took to type these few words.

Why don't you address the real issue here, the UNIFIED BUDGET created by LBJ? Why don't you address the reality as to that SS and Medicare funds have been used to fund other Federal Expenses and not used as intended? Why is it that Federal taxes created aren't used as intended thus allowing the bureaucrats to ask for more money when they abuse the dollars received yet never questioned by the taxpayers? This happens with BOTH parties but this one is absolutely stunning abuse of tax dollars.

 

[ludin]

There is truly a misconception on the Payroll taxes which was a forced contribution created to as you said fund SS and Medicare. The problem is not the tax itself but the use of the taxes as that tax was put on budget by LBJ and is now part of the unified budget where every dollar is treated the same way and can be spent on whatever the bureaucrats want to spend it on. that is the problem and why we have an unfunded liability now as the Congress used the funds to pay for whatever they wanted starting with the Vietnam War.

Millions of Americans already don't receive SS and Medicare thus don't contribute but the vast majority do and although I have never supported FORCED contributions I do understand their purpose. SS was designed to be a retirement SUPPLEMENT not sole retirement but over the years it has become sole retirement for so many and is truly a very poor return on one's investment as a simple savings account, untouchable would be better. Why only charge the wealthy? You will never generate the funding for the masses.

SS was doing better until Johnson moved it to the general fund to be pillaged.
now it is nothing more than worthless IOU's on paper.

 

[rickc]

Is there ever going to come a time when you stop thinking only with your heart and use your brain? SS and Medicare were created simply as a funding source for the federal bureaucracy to buy votes all under the claims of providing a supplement for people in their retirement. Supposed good intentions on paper but poor implementation as usual by bureaucrats who simply buy votes with that money which is why it is now unfunded. It would have never been unfunded has it been used as created.

hopefully one day the majority of Americans will wake up and realize how they have been scammed by propaganda from the wealthy elite

social security can easy be funded in perpetuity with a few changes to how it is funded without raising the retirement age

medicare for all or some other single payer health care system is what is best for the majority of Americans. All the rest of the developed world has it. we could pick and choose the best parts from all these other sucessful models and have the best medical care in the world for all Americans.

our tax code has been slanted to the wealthy every since Reagan and trickle down. we need a complete revision not only to correct the huge income disparity between the middle/working class and the 1% but to stop the deficit spending and massive growth in the federal debt.

why haven't we corrected these issues. the wealthy elite don't want it and they own our representatives.

Americans stand up and be counted. Vote Democrat. Throw those who support tax cuts for the rich and borrow the money to pay for it, American Health Care the best health care you can afford, remove the social safety net get rid of medicare and social security, Republicans out of office!

 

[Conservative]

hopefully one day the majority of Americans will wake up and realize how they have been scammed by propaganda from the wealthy elite

social security can easy be funded in perpetuity with a few changes to how it is funded without raising the retirement age

medicare for all or some other single payer health care system is what is best for the majority of Americans. All the rest of the developed world has it. we could pick and choose the best parts from all these other sucessful models and have the best medical care in the world for all Americans.

our tax code has been slanted to the wealthy every since Reagan and trickle down. we need a complete revision not only to correct the huge income disparity between the middle/working class and the 1% but to stop the deficit spending and massive growth in the federal debt.

why haven't we corrected these issues. the wealthy elite don't want it and they own our representatives.

Americans stand up and be counted. Vote Democrat. Throw those who support tax cuts for the rich and borrow the money to pay for it, American Health Care the best health care you can afford, remove the social safety net get rid of medicare and social security, Republicans out of office!

Wealthy elite? You mean FDR that created SS or LBJ that put SS on Budget, those wealthy elite?

How is it that the wealthy taxpayers created this problem?

Your stunning class warfare rhetoric is on full display without an understanding that they wealthy don't create enough money to fund your liberal spending appetite. You have stated you are wealthy so what are you doing personally to help those you believe need it?

For some reason you believe it is up to the wealthy to fund your personal responsibility issues and those of others? Where did you develop this attitude?

Vote democrat?? This has to be an act seeking attention because no one in their right mind will ever vote for today's Democratic Party controlled by radicals. You don't seem to understand at all the role of the Federal Govt. as created or what the Democratic Party used to stand for. Class envy, class warfare, redistribution of wealth was never the priority it is today. NO wealthy person ever hurt you, your family or the country and you have yet to post any data supporting your claims

 

[jonny5]

Currently we have a bizarre tax system where workers and employers both contribute equally to payroll taxes to pay for social security and medicare. On its own, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. These are programs that do a lot of good and provide for people in retirement. Here's the problem: these payroll taxes do not apply to those who make a living off of investments, and they also do not apply to those who make more than a certain amount of money. Here's where it gets even worse, if you are self-employed, you are effectively playing twice the tax, since you are the employer and employee.

What we've set up is a tax scheme that effectively discourages labor, discourages entrepreneurship, and encourages only investment. On top of that, it's not solvent. So we need to change it. Here's my proposal?

Let's stop treating this like a savings account and treat it like it actually is: social welfare. Make the tax apply to high income earners, not just middle income earners. Make it apply not just to wage income, but to all sources of income. This does mean that yes, now the rich can collect social security, but we already a maximum benefit worked into the system, so on net we'll be collecting much more revenue.

This fix will treat all sources of income equally and fix the budget issues.

Thoughts?

Im confused here. You seem to be saying that we should take more from the rich because its unfair that they have money left over to then invest in something better than SS? Isnt that the whole point of getting rich? Or is this satirical?

 

[haymarket]

Seems like a very valid question to me, what personal attack? A lot of people think with their hearts including you as you have nothing to stand on with this issue.

brain.... heart --- personal attack.

But then you wrote it so you knew it.

 

[haymarket]

Why don't you address the real issue here, the UNIFIED BUDGET created by LBJ? Why don't you address the reality as to that SS and Medicare funds have been used to fund other Federal Expenses and not used as intended? Why is it that Federal taxes created aren't used as intended thus allowing the bureaucrats to ask for more money when they abuse the dollars received yet never questioned by the taxpayers? This happens with BOTH parties but this one is absolutely stunning abuse of tax dollars.

Your obsessions are not my obsessions.