Should the KKK Confederate mural on Stone Mountain, Georgia be destroyed?

[ChezC3]

What a lie. States wrote, in their declarations of secession, that it was to preserve slavery.

You're gaslighting the Civil War.

It was to preserve slavery, yes, however, your reductionist take is far from the truth of the matter.

When one reads those declarations of succession with the clarity of mind that comes from not having one's head up one's ass, it is plainly and painfully obvious that it wasn't for the continuation in and of itself that brought about succession but that it was the indomitable feeling that the Northern States had no right, no legal or moral standing to bring about its abolition in the states of which upheld the necessity and rightfulness of the institution or practice. Neither did they believe going forward that it should be predetermined by outside parties the legality of the institution. Consistent in their thinking they believed it should be the territories themselves to decide if the institution of slavery should be accepted or rejected. The original 13th Amendment, well, not the original, that didn't have anything to do with this, but the 2nd take, the Corwin Amendment which had passed and ratified by a handful, and fully accepted as settled law by Abraham Lincoln gives veracity to this interpretation. Had succession not already begun, the law would have been in favor of the Southern States rightful mode of reasoning.

So to say that their declaration, if you were explaining it to a child, was about upholding slavery you would be factually correct, however, a mature take on the matter clearly shows that this is far from the truth.

 

[ecofarm]

The page-long gaslighting is hysterical.


"The Confederates were actually the good guys!"

Save that for a compound.

 

[joko104]

Oh dear, lord....Pulaski TN, is considered the birthplace of the Ku Klux Klan, because, that's, you know, where it was founded. :roll:

They most certainly should preserve it.


and take a lesson, it's best to leave them long-haired, country boys alone...

"Second" birthplace of KKK - some claim.

 

[joko104]

So you think White supremacist rallies at the site are an indcation of our progress? Sometimes we need to make a real statement to indicate we have changed and a few sticks of dynamite will do the trick there. It really is an ugly carving job too. A few pictures in a book will take care of the "history".

Don't you think it is long overdue for Egypt, Italy, Greece, China and India to get past their slavery days and destroy all monuments and structures that memorialize slavery? How many hundreds of thousands of slaves were killed building the Great Wall(s) of China and how many slaves were murdered in the Colosseum in Rome? Certainly the temples of the Aztec and Incas where they did human sacrifices and had slaves should be blown up, rather than memorializing their evil.

Shouldn't everything in the USA built prior to the Civil Rights Act be blown up because essentially all was made with unequally treated blacks? All portraits of presidents should be removed. Memorializing slave owners and Indian killers? Racists and bigot white male presidents honored on the walls of the capital? How outrageous! The White House, slave built, certainly must be blown up. The "White" House? The replacement should be painted black as repentance. Isn't it time the USA indicate it has changed from its past by blowing up what that past built?

Really, everything built in the USA before President Obama should be blown up, don't you think? All symbols of evil history must be destroyed, everything everywhere in the world.

 

[trixare4kids]

So you think White supremacist rallies at the site are an indcation of our progress? Sometimes we need to make a real statement to indicate we have changed and a few sticks of dynamite will do the trick there. It really is an ugly carving job too. A few pictures in a book will take care of the "history".

What's with some who think they can twist what I wrote, attempting to put words in my mouth?

:2wave:

 

[Cramer]

The laws they want to pass say different:

Medicare for all, that would abolish private insurance.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/31/kamala-harris-medicare-for-all-1130970

Gun bans and confiscation.

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/890179/16

Congressman proposes using nuclear weapons on citizens who resist gun law.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw0-vrMXMTqMOHry-DdB8Noa&ust=1549309159713259

Medicare for all would not eliminate Private insurance.
Can you provide the quote where Harris wants to eliminate private insurance? Your source failed to do so.

No one wants to confiscate your guns (well, only crazies on the left, that have no power)
Banning assault style weapons, and strengthening background checks does not equate to taking your guns.

Your last link does not work....but it is from the Moonie...I mean WA Times, so it is probably BS anyway.

 

[SMTA]

In 1915 a mural of Jefferson Davis - President of the Confederacy, Robert E Lee - Confederate General, and Stonewall Jackson - also a Confederate general - was carved into Stone Mountain, Georgia. This is considered the birthplace of the Ku Klux Klan. Cross burning rituals were performed there from 1915 thru 1958, when the State of Georgia purchased/took the property. The site has been owned by the State of Georgia ever since. In 1965 it was opened as a state park and is the #1 tourist destination in the state.

Should the State Of Georgia continue to operate a state park that markets a memorial to the president and generals of the Confederacy, which fought a war to preserve slavery and establish a permanent slave nation?


[FONT="]STONE MOUNTAIN, Ga. (FOX 5 Atlanta) - Stone Mountain Park will be closed Saturday due to security concerns.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#353E47][FONT="]The Stone Mountain Memorial Association put out a statement late Friday announcing the closure. The release reads:[/FONT]
[FONT="][I]“The Stone Mountain Park Police Department will be closing the park to the public tomorrow, Saturday, February 2, 2019. No vehicles or pedestrian traffic will be allowed into the park. Only hotel and campground guests will be allowed entry and exit through the park gate.”[/I][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#353E47][FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]A white supremacist group had petitioned to rally at the park this weekend due to the significance of the site and its proximity to the Super Bowl this weekend. Those permit requests were denied, but rumors lingered there would be a gathering despite those denials.
Police: Stone Mountain Park to close Saturday - Story | WAGA

[/FONT]

Very long-winded and stupid posts/threads like this one should be destroyed.

 

[iguanaman]

Don't you think it is long overdue for Egypt, Italy, Greece, China and India to get past their slavery days and destroy all monuments and structures that memorialize slavery? How many hundreds of thousands of slaves were killed building the Great Wall(s) of China and how many slaves were murdered in the Colosseum in Rome? Certainly the temples of the Aztec and Incas where they did human sacrifices and had slaves should be blown up, rather than memorializing their evil.

Shouldn't everything in the USA built prior to the Civil Rights Act be blown up because essentially all was made with unequally treated blacks? All portraits of presidents should be removed. Memorializing slave owners and Indian killers? Racists and bigot white male presidents honored on the walls of the capital? How outrageous! The White House, slave built, certainly must be blown up. The "White" House? The replacement should be painted black as repentance. Isn't it time the USA indicate it has changed from its past by blowing up what that past built?

Really, everything built in the USA before President Obama should be blown up, don't you think? All symbols of evil history must be destroyed, everything everywhere in the world.

Do you understand that a 100 year old monument to segregation is not the same as 1000 year + old antiquities? The fact that white nationalists are still using this "monument" as a rallying point is enough reason to tear it down. It's now a thorn in our side. If someone volunteered to pay for the figures to be changed into civil rights leaders instead of Confederate losers I guess it could stay. Losers don't get to have monuments built for them and that was never the purpose either.

 

[ecofarm]

and take a lesson, it's best to leave them long-haired, country boys alone...

They got their ass kicked and lost in humiliation. They spent the next century in tears and revision. Losers.

 

[Tigerace117]

Oh dear, lord....Pulaski TN, is considered the birthplace of the Ku Klux Klan, because, that's, you know, where it was founded. :roll:

They most certainly should preserve it.


and take a lesson, it's best to leave them long-haired, country boys alone...

Or what? They’ll blow up another church full of little kids? Oh I know! They’ll go fly into a frenzy over African Americans going to school with white people and need the 101st Airborne to be called in.

 

[Tigerace117]

America in some ways feels like it is a place run by the Taliban.

Oh, so you are about to get your head chopped off for saying that? Good to know.

 

[Tigerace117]

Sure...they do the same things as the Taliban. But THEY are different......

Do you have any evidence for your claim that the people getting rid of Confederate monuments are terrorists? Or involved in sexual slavery?

Since, of course, you claimed that they do the same things as the Taliban?

 

[Tigerace117]

Covering up history also diminishes history. It's far better to be reminded of what we're trying to put behind us than to try and erase any trace of it. Monuments aren't always a celebration, sometimes they are useful reminders of our darker side, and can serve to guide us to a more enlightened future. Better to acknowledge what went before than to pretend it didn't happen. Monuments like Stone Mountain keep our history right in front of us. Erasing all signs of our tortured past erases that history in the public mind as well. Out of sight, out of mind.

So that's why the Germans don't know anything about the Nazis, right?

Oh wait.......

The argument that one is "covering up" history by removing the monuments to treason and slavery is simply laughable. No one is going to forget about the civil war just because there aren't statues of slavers everywhere.

 

[Tigerace117]

Being in my late 60's, it is interesting how people are so sensitive to things now days. imo, we are going overboard on trying to be "politically correct". Sorry, but the US had a civil war. News flash, the South lost. Sorry, that back 40-60 years ago "black face" was used in certain social settings. News Flash: It is not acceptable TODAY. Sorry, that we have some sport teams that have Native American references. News Flash: Have yet to see the teams use the logo in a derogatory way.

Some people just need to toughen up. Treat people with respect and one should expect it to be returned. MLK , stated it well.

Gee bud, how respectful to African Americans do you think having statues of the people who literally bought, sold and often raped members of their families is?

 

[Tigerace117]

It was to preserve slavery, yes, however, your reductionist take is far from the truth of the matter.

When one reads those declarations of succession with the clarity of mind that comes from not having one's head up one's ass, it is plainly and painfully obvious that it wasn't for the continuation in and of itself that brought about succession but that it was the indomitable feeling that the Northern States had no right, no legal or moral standing to bring about its abolition in the states of which upheld the necessity and rightfulness of the institution or practice. Neither did they believe going forward that it should be predetermined by outside parties the legality of the institution. Consistent in their thinking they believed it should be the territories themselves to decide if the institution of slavery should be accepted or rejected. The original 13th Amendment, well, not the original, that didn't have anything to do with this, but the 2nd take, the Corwin Amendment which had passed and ratified by a handful, and fully accepted as settled law by Abraham Lincoln gives veracity to this interpretation. Had succession not already begun, the law would have been in favor of the Southern States rightful mode of reasoning.

So to say that their declaration, if you were explaining it to a child, was about upholding slavery you would be factually correct, however, a mature take on the matter clearly shows that this is far from the truth.

The fact that the pro-slavery settlers attempted to flood into Kansas and routinely conducted violence against anti-slavery settlers shows this to be a lie, as does the treatment of West Virginia.

 

[Superfly]

Robert Byrd recanted his former views and spent his career fighting against them.

Which liberals are supporting Northham?

Not it.

 

[Nickyjo]

No.

It should stand as a monument to the Democrat Party history.

Nice try. You mean the democrat-now-republican party, right? Read your history. In the post civil rights south, white voters turned from democrats to republicans, black voters from republicans to democrats. (Jackie Robinson was a good example.) Same people, similar political leanings, different wine skins, as Jesus might say. But people will keep bringing the old segregationist Democratic Party up as if it means anything.

Strange question: is the monument considered to have artistic merit, like the overtly racist film "Birth of a Nation"? (The latter is worth seeing if you hold your nose.) An alternative might be to carve images of slaves working cotton fields or in shackles surrounding the figures.

 

[Waddy]

So that's why the Germans don't know anything about the Nazis, right?

Oh wait.......

The argument that one is "covering up" history by removing the monuments to treason and slavery is simply laughable. No one is going to forget about the civil war just because there aren't statues of slavers everywhere.

Most people know very little about it even with reminders right in front of them. And yes, go to Germany or Japan; WWll is seldom mentioned. The Japanese don't even cover it in their school textbooks.

 

[apdst]

Medicare for all would not eliminate Private insurance.
Can you provide the quote where Harris wants to eliminate private insurance? Your source failed to do so.

No one wants to confiscate your guns (well, only crazies on the left, that have no power)
Banning assault style weapons, and strengthening background checks does not equate to taking your guns.

Your last link does not work....but it is from the Moonie...I mean WA Times, so it is probably BS anyway.

1. Harris said it would eliminate private insurance.

"Who of us has not had that situation where you’ve got to wait for approval, and the doctor says, well, I don’t know if your insurance company is going to cover this. Let’s eliminate all of that. Let’s move on," Harris explained.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...arket_eliminate_all_of_that_lets_move_on.html

2. "We don't want to confiscate your guns" is a lie.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw3sRfTsi_nlUTRq46Q3uFlo&ust=1549319125181460

3. Try this link:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw1bTDmyRfpKEbSQ6bRFVVus&ust=1549319049364155

 

[mike2810]

Gee bud, how respectful to African Americans do you think having statues of the people who literally bought, sold and often raped members of their families is?

Gee bud, did I say anything about praising what happened in the past? To take your statement to the nth degree , then let's get rid of many of the founding fathers. Didn't Washington have slaves?

Why are you so offended of your past? Why not learn from it instead of hiding it?

 

[Tigerace117]

Gee bud, did I say anything about praising what happened in the past? To take your statement to the nth degree , then let's get rid of many of the founding fathers. Didn't Washington have slaves?

Why are you so offended of your past? Why not learn from it instead of hiding it?

The Founding Fathers, unlike the Confederates, did not fight for slavery. The desperate attempts to equate them is truly despicable.

The monuments were specifically created to glorify and celebrate the slaveocracy.

The main thing one “learns” from the Civil War is white supremacists will constantly crawl out from under their rocks and try to brutally oppress Americans.

 

[Tigerace117]

Most people know very little about it even with reminders right in front of them. And yes, go to Germany or Japan; WWll is seldom mentioned. The Japanese don't even cover it in their school textbooks.

That’s patently false; the Japanese don’t go into great detail about the war—-largely due to their right wing’s interests in rewriting history and avoiding the facts about the crimes committed—-but claiming that they don’t mention it at all is laughably inaccurate.

 

[mike2810]

The Founding Fathers, unlike the Confederates, did not fight for slavery. The desperate attempts to equate them is truly despicable.

The monuments were specifically created to glorify and celebrate the slaveocracy.

The main thing one “learns” from the Civil War is white supremacists will constantly crawl out from under their rocks and try to brutally oppress Americans.

Correct. Why didn't they have to fight for slavery? Was it because at the time it was socially acceptable? Did not having to "fight" makes slavery ok?

imo, white supremacists are no better than Louis Farrakhan or any group that preaches supremacy over another. It is interesting how after all these years the Confederate statues are now an issue. Social acceptance is ever changing.

 

[bongsaway]

Well the south has yet to get over the fact they lost the civil war, which they were fighting to retain the 'right' to own black folks. Should it be removed, yes, it should have never been built. Anyone who is not so prejudiced that they can't see it for what it is, well, no help for you you're still lost. For everyone else we see it for what it is, a monument to the folks who fought to uphold slavery. These people should not be honored the civil war is america's biggest blemish. History can keep them alive and should but not with statues and certainly not with honor. The south was a traitor to america. Fighting a war for all the wrong reasons.

 

[bongsaway]

They didn't fight to enslave humans. Since you don't have a basic grasp of history, your vote on the issue is null. Slavery was an economic system which the South was moving away from anyway due to the industrial revolution replacing the need for forced labor with automation. The Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery within the Union and also exempted all border states. The Civil war was over who would control the new country, since if the Union lost there would be no Union at all as it couldn't pay for itself. The Civil War was about economic viability so of course, the Union won given its technological advancements.

Uh huh, and that's why jim crow was put into place after the south lost the war because they were moving away from slavery before the war. So slavery was an economic system, not a system of enslaving people against their will? I hope you don't have a day job writing history books.