Should Catlyn Jenner's medals and awards be taken from her?

[vegas giants]

Some poster here loves saying that. Use your echo chamber as you send him the sandwich.

What?

 

[vegas giants]

That is why you post here. You do not enjoy men.

As a good^^^^^^^^^ democrat, you please me by granting me the freedom to have my own tastes.

My tastes definitely is a full life of enjoying women.

Whatever you say. Lol

 

[Robertinfremont]

Whatever you say. Lol

Boppity. :shock:

 

[vegas giants]

Boppity. :shock:

Okay dokey pokey

 

[Nickyjo]

No, Jenner - despite having $100 million dollars - never had a sex change operation.

The poll is questioning how quickly people will deny their own slogans when in comes to PCism. On other threads, they will furiously claim a transgender was "born that way," while on this thread those same people do not hold to that position.

I always disliked the "born that way" claim as an excuse - when no excuse or explanation is necessary and it is extremely demeaning - like claiming being gay, lesbian or trans is a birth defect deserving pity and protection under the Americans With Disabilities Act. In my own opinion. some people probably are born gay. Others become gay by social and life experience forces. For example, two lesbians I know clearly state they became lesbians due to extreme abuse - including sexual assaults - by men to the point that men are repulsive, and even hate or fear men, do not trust men. Men in prison often become "gay" - with excuses explaining what that somehow just doesn't count.

Rather, in my opinion merely saying "I am ______" is sufficient, with no rationalizations or excuse required. If a person wants to speculate why? Sure, go ahead. But slogans are not self proving truisms.

Really, he didn’t have an operation? Just looked it up. 1917 is when it happened.

 

[joko104]

Really, he didn’t have an operation? Just looked it up. 1917 is when it happened.

Thank you. I truly did not know that and this very much changes my opinion about Jenner.

 

[eohrnberger]

Silly poll and dismal choices.........

And no Jenner won the medals/awards fair and square! Next......

Agreed. Jenner won those metals, and they are Jenner's.

 

[Nickyjo]

Thank you. I truly did not know that and this very much changes my opinion about Jenner.

Awww... you’re getting soft, Joko.

Back to the fray soon.

 

[joko104]

Awww... you’re getting soft, Joko.

Back to the fray soon.

:lol:

 

[COTO]

You're not seeing truth, your being pedantic for the sake of hate.

On what basis do you--a stranger who knows nothing about me, my reasoning, my background, my moral upbringing--presume to call me hateful?

Calling me small-minded, ignorant, deceived, or even bigoted I can understand coming from someone with an opposing moral opinion. You think I'm dead wrong; that transgenderism is a solution to a problem, that there's far more good than harm in it. You think I'm standing in the way of progress, comity, and happiness.

Obviously I disagree with you, but I can at least understand the basis for your position.

But this isn't the entirety of your position, is it? You go on to accuse me of hatred. You call me mean and rude. You wantonly ignore my arguments and suppose I revile transgenderism dogma "just because someone is different than [I am]".

What basis do you have for any of these claims? None.

I don't hate Mr. Jenner. I don't condemn transgenderism because it's some alien doctrine I can't wrap my mind around. I certainly don't begrudge people their differences for the sake of differences, which is fortunate considering I live in one of the most culturally and socially diverse cities on Earth.

I revile transgenderism dogma because it's a profound social harm, no different from alcoholism, anorexia, adultery, and a host of others. It is foremost a deceit and a delusion. As a solution to the problem of gender dysphoria, although it may provide a mild reprieve for some, it irreparably damages countless others. It's insidious. In every OECD nation on Earth, children are being indoctrinated into the belief that gender is not a real thing, that "choosing" one's gender is natural and beneficial. Not surprisingly, the problem of gender dysphoria has exploded from what was once a tiny handful of intersex individuals with a legitimate genetic abnormality to the mess we see today: where the fleeting whims of millions of children who can't tell their heads from a hole in the ground can put them on the path to transvestitism, hormone treatments, barbaric surgeries, and totally unnecessary "treatments" with irreversible consequences.

And what to say of the people the "treatment" even works for? Fragile, self-deceived individuals demanding universal recognition of their delusions, trapped in discomfited one-dimensional lives, with astronomical rates of mental illness, drug abuse, and suicide.

Add to all this chaos and confusion: people inventing new pronouns, inventing absurd "non-binary" genders with no basis in biology whatsoever, demanding to compete in sports with the opposite sex, forcing themselves into organizations for the opposite sex, and worse. People taking grave offense when strangers predictably fail to recognize their "new gender" even whilst cross-dressing and mutilating themselves in an attempt to resemble the opposite sex. All the chaos and confusion we'd expect from a society embracing a delusion in its vanity.

What is the only reasonable conclusion? That this doctrine of transgenderism is deceitful, insidious, indefensible, and a profound social harm.

If you disagree, so be it. I certainly don't expect everyone on a political forum to agree with me. But to call me hateful because I'm speaking out against a doctrine I reasonably, sincerely believe to be profoundly harmful? You presume too much. You have no leg to stand on.

 

[Common Sense 1]

I well recall when SHE won. She, to play fair, belonged in the Woman's class. Clearly SHE could have easily defeated all women on Earth.

See how her argument merits argument .

The poll could be improved but when she impregnated women, she should have told the women she mated with she was not a he at all.

Jenner has lived a life of deceit. His children paid for his crimes by refusing to be with white men.

This is one screwy post! Crazy talk and nothing more!

 

[goldkam]

You openly support discrimination against females on behalf of males who want to enter female-only competition - no different than claiming old men like you should be able to play football on a team limited to little children - "because you feel young."

That is completely and utterly false and your attempt to manipulate what I said so you can embark on this personal attack. Everything you have stated is full of assumptions, manipulation and hate. I find it offensive but non-surprising that you assume my age.

Just to be clear woman should not be discriminated against, woman should be given equal opportunity and woman should treated with respect. But I will not accept this trade off you are proposing….that woman can only have this if transgender people miss out. Your views are discriminative because of this tradeoff you propose.

The majority of MTF are gay. There are exceptions, like Renae - and accordingly Renae fully acknowledges the physiological differences between someone born with the generic SEX of male over female, which is an entirely different matter than "gender."

I understand what you are saying but once again you present a hypocritical view. Where do transgender people fit into sport then?

No, you look down on females, you are fine with - even support - females being punished, basically banned, from serious athletics SPECIFICALLY because of what makes them female from evolution - all related to childbearing and childrearing. Everything that actually is the difference between females and males are all traits NO MTF transgender nor transexual can every obtain.

You cannot tell the truth, it’s that simple. What you have done is contorted, twisted and manipulated everything I have stated once again. Please provide quotes of where I have stated the following (based on the claims you have made):

- Where did I state I support females being punished?
- Where did I state or imply I look down on females?

So if those traits cannot ever be attained by someone who is transgender….they can’t ever obtain any acceptance or status within society?

Males don't have the weight of breasts.
Males don't have wide hips.
Males don't have shorter legs per height for a lower center of gravity - safer in pregnancy and carrying a child on her wide hip not to trip and fall.
Females burn less calories per food consumption - being more efficient with food because sometimes she'll be eating for 2 and because when food becomes scarce, males tend to eat first - this means also slower energy conversion to muscles usage. Males don't have a menstrual cycle.

I respect all those unique and challenging things females face but you seem to be trying to make this a competition between males and females. It’s indicative of this rhetoric you are now using to undermine males because of their gender. Its an unnecessary stereotype of past views and actions by SOME males, ones that are not reflective of ALL males. Why you find it necessary to make this into a competition between genders, undermining the very thing you triumph; equality?

EVERYTHING in real terms that separates females from males are all traits NO transgender can ever have BECAUSE THEY ALL RELATE TO PREGNANCY, CHILDBIRTH and FEEDING children with her own body. Greater physical power is how males have always been able to dominate women - literally by beating them. You fully support males beating women. Physically beating them - claiming it is because you feel sorry for transgender males and don't give a damn about any female who won't accept she was born to be beaten by men - her punishment for being female by males if she enters any athletic competition.

You have once against manipulated facts for your own gain. I am not going to cop this outright and disgusting treatment of males in general and myself, particularly given you have absolutely no information on me or understanding of who I am. Its disappointing that you are conducting the very thing you are talking about; discrimination.

I will put on the record once again to make it as clear as possible. I support woman, men and transgender people and the ability to all cooperate and live together within the world. You cannot to seem to comprehend or respect this very fact. Hypocrisy at its very worst.

So because gender, according to you, has nothing to with it that suddenly validates your ability to discriminate against those who are transgender?

I ask you this….would you accept the situation where a transgender male outperformed a female colleague in monthly sales at their workplace?

 

[goldkam]

You have NO respect for what makes a female a female. I don't give a damn if a male wants to think of him/herself as a "woman." Gender has NOTHING to do with athletics.

For the rules, I can not really write my true opinion of men who support such grotesque abuse and trivialization of females as you in your message. I read NOTHING indicating ANY respect of females - only you sobbing for men who want to steal from females, being too much losers to compete against other males nor competing against others like themselves.

Loser men like women to be beaten. Such men are scum, regardless of their diversionary rationalizations.

As women increasingly enter athletics and gain income and benefits that otherwise still would 100% go to males, males like you found a way to get male to beat - literally physically beat in physical competitions - females. Don't pretend you believe in equality nor actually do respect females in TRUE respect. I respect females because of what makes them female. YOU declare that is NOTHING, absolutely nothing. You claim what makes them female is NOTHING, irrelevant to being a woman. You could not more insult and trivialize females.

Well I will say this….. as long as I know that I respect woman, will stand against discrimination against woman and will continue to advocate an agenda that is supportive of woman than your personal attacks are meaningless. I will not be lied about. I will not have my words manipulated. How you have treated the issue and males on this forum is quite disgraceful.

I was putting a valid point regarding respecting the rights and journey of those who are transgender, an accepted and championed point by some in society.

 

[goldkam]

I dissected that paragraph out. Rather than write it all out, that indicates serious hang-ups and declared victimhood by you by females. That paragraph reads like it is straight out of incel materials.

The topic is not how you suffer across all of society as a male by evil females or your perception of discrimination against males on behalf of females. This topic is singular - genetic males entering female-only athletic competitions being genetic males. Nothing else.

It has nothing to do with "wilfully." That's why those 3 are suing, isn't it?

You accept males beating women in physical competitions limited only to females. Of course you do. You even declare is should be a human and civil right males have towards females.

So you believe woman should be allowed to win everything in society?

The point I made is highly relevant to the subject matter and makes a strong case. Society has not and should not suddenly provide woman immunity when it comes to every aspect of competition in life based on a hateful comment made by someone. That’s actually disintegrating the very progress made regarding woman’s position in society.

Interestingly what you are doing is discriminating and treating males horrifically by stereotyping the historical and current actions of a few….yet disallowing me to comment on it. Once again that is hypocrisy. You are a hypocrite.

I don’t agree with your view…they are transgender males and there is a difference. You discriminate against them; I like to seek solution where everyone can maintain their rights and coexist within the world.

 

[joko104]

So you believe woman should be allowed to win everything in society?

The point I made is highly relevant to the subject matter and makes a strong case. Society has not and should not suddenly provide woman immunity when it comes to every aspect of competition in life based on a hateful comment made by someone. That’s actually disintegrating the very progress made regarding woman’s position in society.

Interestingly what you are doing is discriminating and treating males horrifically by stereotyping the historical and current actions of a few….yet disallowing me to comment on it. Once again that is hypocrisy. You are a hypocrite.

I don’t agree with your view…they are transgender males and there is a difference. You discriminate against them; I like to seek solution where everyone can maintain their rights and coexist within the world.

Your point is to create a totally false claim of what this topic is about, and then rant about.

Female-only athletics restricted to females only, with male-only athletics restricted to males only - for which 99% of all professional athletics money is still going to males - does not equal claiming "woman should be allowed to win everything in society" as you bizarrely claim.

What about adults competing against children IF the adult says "I feel like I'm 8 years old." Same thing, isn't it. Age is only a psychological perspective and has nothing to do with physiology, like the claim at a person's biological sex is solely determined by a person's frame of mind - physiology irrelevant.

Your position is that women should be allowed to win nothing on behalf of males who want to compete against females in female-only events - and conclude with some fashion of incel male victimhood.

You have yet to even acknowledge why females physiologically are different from males - pregnancy, birthing and childrearing. To you, that is NOTHING, literally nothing, and trivialize/degrade being female is nothing but a psychological attitude. It would not be possible to more degrade being a female to nothingness other than some inferior creature to homo sapien males.

Don't you have compassion for people who desperately want to be a child? Don't you support some way to compromise to allow a 19 year old to compete with 10 year olds in soccer and the 100 yard dash like you claim should be done for males who want to enter female-only events?

Shouldn't a man who feels handicapped - with no physical and only mental handicaps - be allowed to compete against people in wheelchairs playing basketball in Special Olympics? I mean, you have compassion for men who believe they are physically handicapped, don't you?

 

[Lisa]

This is one screwy post! Crazy talk and nothing more!

I doubt that even Mashmont or Marke would have made those claims, especially the last sentence.

 

[BrotherFease]

The claim of some transgender activists is that a MTF transgender was actually born a female/woman - and therefore should compete in women's athletic events. In this, they claim Catlyn Jenner was actually born a woman/female.

However, she didn't enter events for women, but for men - when she was NEVER a man according to the transgender activist claims. Thus, Jenner was never eligible to enter any even as a male. She has openly admitted she is MTF transgender.

Which one is it? Jenner was born a male/man, or born a female/woman? Pick one. If the latter, all medals and awards should be stripped from Catlyn Jenner.

Lots of problems here. Hopefully I can shred some light in your confusion, ignorance (lacking knowledge) and preposterous commentary. I get that the trans thing is "new" to you and conservatives by nature are skeptical of anything appearing to be "new" or "deviant".

For starters, ask yourself why do you care about this issue? Why? The trans community is made up of a whopping .6% of the U.S population. That means that 99.4% of us are not trans. Why can't see accept the concept they are the anomaly or the except to the rule?

The base of your problem lies in not understanding the main principles being presented/argued. I hope, you're going to actually read what I write below. It's important in your trans obsession quest. Lets start off with the basics. When people say a trans woman was always a woman or a trans man was always a man, it's not a reference to ones genitals or sex chromosomes. It's a reference to their psychological and cultural identity, meaning they are naturally build to have a masculine personality or a feminine personality. Through the study of neurology for at least the last 40 years, we have discovered that males and females have different structure brains, and transgender people's brains are shaped more like their gender (cultural identity) rather than their biological sex. In other words, trans man = male brain, female body. Trans woman = female brain, male body. If you look at Caitlyn Jenner for example, she was born with a female brain and male body. You look at Chaz Bono. He was born with a male brain, female body.

Lets look at your 2nd fallacy. You referenced trans females on female sports league. Ms. Jenner would have been a woman playing in a male sport. So your example doesn't follow through logically. If we're talking about trans women in women's leagues, Jenner wouldn't be applicable here, therefore she gets to keep her medals.

Lastly, I really have no idea why you think Jenner should be stripped of her metals. Transgenderism wasn't really taken seriously in the 70s and lacked the knowledge we have today, both in treatment and cultural acceptance. I think most people embrace that she had the courage to come out of the closet and become who she was born to be.