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Separate But Equal

OrphanSlug said:
That is not accurate. Universities and their various departments are offering these additional ceremonies, and they are just as stupid and based on prejudice now as they were then.
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If you're talking about the Jim Crow era, that's just complete nonsense. George Wallace's segregation was involuntary, these not-graduation side ceremonies are completely voluntary.

This is nuts. Here's wiki's entry on Wallace's antics with the University of Alabama. It took Kennedy calling out the National Guard to get Wallace to back down and ADMIT black students. Both sides! is just ludicrous in this context. They're really nothing alike.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
One excuse (touted as a reason?) for having a second yet limited (by race) graduation ceremony is that "this ceremony gave me, my family, and friends an even more intimate and community-based setting to celebrate this huge achievement'. That, of course, suggests (boasts?) that a segregated community is more intimate (and thus desirable?) than an integrated community. It seems hard (hypocritical?) to celebrate having a racially segregated community while opposing that concept throughout society at large or in an employment setting.
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OK, so every Saturday and Sunday, 10s of millions of Americans segregate themselves into religious groups because this segregated community is more intimate than a secular gathering. Does this mean those attending church, therefore, oppose racial and religious integration in society at large? Of course not....
 
JasperL said:
OK, so every Saturday and Sunday, 10s of millions of Americans segregate themselves into religious groups because this segregated community is more intimate than a secular gathering. Does this mean those attending church, therefore, oppose racial and religious integration in society at large? Of course not....
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I am not saying (arguing?) that continuing racial (self?) segregation does not exist or even that racial (self?) segregation is not more comfortable since change is harder (reqiuires at least some effort) than not changing. Perhaps my military exposure (my father was career Army) growing up and as a white person living in a predominantly "minority" (previously black in Prnce George's County MD, Asian in Guam and now Hispanic in Uhland, TX) community has tainted my thinking on the matter but I do not feel more comfortable in a racially segregated environment or more uncomfortable in a racially integrated environment.

IMHO, it is how many see "assimilation" (fitting in?) as requiring that the minority give up (change?) much more than the majority in order to "assimilate" (fit in?) which may help drive the desire for self-segregation. That is one argument for self-segregation which may have some merit (especially in terms of religious matters) but few (if any) religions have racial segregation as a central tenent or requirement.

Why Are American Churches Still Segregated? - Legacy Disciple
 
ttwtt78640 said:
One excuse (touted as a reason?) for having a second yet limited (by race) graduation ceremony is that "this ceremony gave me, my family, and friends an even more intimate and community-based setting to celebrate this huge achievement'. That, of course, suggests (boasts?) that a segregated community is more intimate (and thus desirable?) than an integrated community. It seems hard (hypocritical?) to celebrate having a racially segregated community while opposing that concept throughout society at large or in an employment setting.
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The personal experience/opinion of the one person I posted was reflective of several others I found.

You’re entitled to believe what you want, but a reasonable person accepts their perception is just that.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
The personal experience/opinion of the one person I posted was reflective of several others I found.

You’re entitled to believe what you want, but a reasonable person accepts their perception is just that.
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My point, which you seem to want to avoid addressing, is that if racial segregation based on the "comfort" argument is valid then it is equally valid for every racial, ethnic and/or religious group. If taken to its possible (logical?) conclusion, the for everyone graduation ceremony would be followed by far better (more meaningful and intimate?) racially, ethnically and/or religiously segregated "supplemental" graduation ceremonies for each "special" group - in that case, few (if any) would bother attending the larger ceremony and opt for attending the more "personal" ceremony instead.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
My point, which you seem to want to avoid addressing, is that if racial segregation based on the "comfort" argument is valid then it is equally valid for every racial, ethnic and/or religious group. If taken to its possible (logical?) conclusion, the for everyone graduation ceremony would be followed by far better (more meaningful and intimate?) racially, ethnically and/or religiously segregated "supplemental" graduation ceremonies for each "special" group - in that case, few (if any) would bother attending the larger ceremony and opt for attending the more "personal" ceremony instead.
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Within the context of this conversation, let’s not lose sight of why segregation was forced on African Americans in the first place. It was, in no way, intended to comfort anyone. Rather it was to keep African Americans “in their place”.

Racial, ethnic, and religious groups have had exclusive community gatherings from the beginning of time, so I gotta ask why is a separate additional celebration a problem for you or anyone else? Seriously, can’t you even try to see another’s point of view?
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Within the context of this conversation, let’s not lose sight of why segregation was forced on African Americans in the first place. It was, in no way, intended to comfort anyone. Rather it was to keep African Americans “in their place”.

Racial, ethnic, and religious groups have had exclusive community gatherings from the beginning of time, so I gotta ask why is a separate additional celebration a problem for you or anyone else? Seriously, can’t you even try to see another’s point of view?
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I see the other "point of view" completely and have pointed out the very real dangers of having racially segregated 'private and voluntary' whites only events touted as "exclusive community gatherings".
 
JasperL said:
OK, so every Saturday and Sunday, 10s of millions of Americans segregate themselves into religious groups because this segregated community is more intimate than a secular gathering. Does this mean those attending church, therefore, oppose racial and religious integration in society at large? Of course not....
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MLK wasn’t happy about that situation:

One of Martin Luther King Jr.’s most enduring statements regarding the church was his observation that “the most segregated hour of the week” was 11 a.m. on Sunday.

50 Years After MLK, Sunday Segregation Isn’t Theological...... | News & Reporting | Christianity Today
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I see the other "point of view" completely and have pointed out the very real dangers of having racially segregated 'private and voluntary' whites only events touted as "exclusive community gatherings".
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You have repeatedly tried to reshape the narrative to one that suits your POV, and the only possible source of danger comes from ignorant/evil minded bigots who are enraged by innocent gatherings of people who aren’t “like them”.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
You have repeatedly tried to reshape the narrative to one that suits your POV, and the only possible source of danger comes from ignorant/evil minded bigots who are enraged by innocent gatherings of people who aren’t “like them”.
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I am not the least bit "enraged". That source of danger is certainly worth noting - I am simply cautioning what precedent these "progressive" racially segregated gatherings may be setting.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I am not the least bit "enraged". That source of danger is certainly worth noting - I am simply cautioning what precedent these "progressive" racially segregated gatherings may be setting.
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I wasn’t thinking of or referring to you as enraged, and I don’t think you are an ignorant/evil minded bigot either.

How exactly do you figure the gatherings are precedent setting and progressive?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I see the other "point of view" completely and have pointed out the very real dangers of having racially segregated 'private and voluntary' whites only events touted as "exclusive community gatherings".
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There would likely be little to no problem with "whites only" events if the country didn't have a more than a century problem of the evils of slavery followed by a century of Jim Crow-style white supremacy, not to mention "whites" wiping out entire populations of natives in the Caribbean, central and s. America.
 
snakestretcher said:
It isn't the universities who are initiating this, but the students themselves. It says so in your links within your right-wing student rag. What is the purpose of this thread?
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That makes segregation ok?
 
RaleBulgarian said:
You have repeatedly tried to reshape the narrative to one that suits your POV, and the only possible source of danger comes from ignorant/evil minded bigots who are enraged by innocent gatherings of people who aren’t “like them”.
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So you have no problem with a whites only graduation ceremony. Or school. Or business. Or neighborhood.
 
snakestretcher said:
If the students are doing it of their own volition, why not? Jews do it and many live in tight-knit, self-segregated communities. The only issue with segregation is if it is forcibly imposed.
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I think if a white person tried to graduate in the blacks only ceremony their might be some force imposed on his rear.
 
LowDown said:
So you have no problem with a whites only graduation ceremony. Or school. Or business. Or neighborhood.
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Continues to attempt twisting the narrative, suggesting completely dissimilar hypotheticals.

I wonder, do you really believe what you post, or do you just post nonsense like your above comment as smokescreens to cover your real bias?
 
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