Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

And hopelessly so. That's why it's reasonable to let a professional law enforcement agency address this.

Address what? Ford has not ever given any specific indication of when or where this alleged crime occurred.

 

[HumblePi]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...r_needs_to_be_believed_and_i_believe_her.html
She also gave orders to the press demanding that they run stories on how unfairly Ford is being treated.

This lady is scary. Straight up, demanding we toss aside such things as:
Presumption of Innocence
Due Process
Freedom of Speech

This is not a good look for the Democrat's, and they should distance themselves from her.

Maizie Hirono is fiercely correct. It's about time someone spoke the truth to the old fart misogynist dinosaur relics like Orrin Hatch and Chuck Grassley. Listen up guys, it's 2018 not 1991 and nobody is going to tolerate disregard and disdain for any woman who makes the decision to admit to being sexually molested. No more will they be able to flick her away like a fly on their lunch. They shamed and denigrated Anita Hill in 1991 but oh no, it's not going to be that easy this time. They need to put on their 'real man' pants and understand that women are no longer subservient to their male counterparts in the Senate. Women have found their voices and using it. Thank God. Good for Mazie Hirono. :applaud:applaud:applaud:applaud:applaud

 

[Diving Mullah]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...r_needs_to_be_believed_and_i_believe_her.html
She also gave orders to the press demanding that they run stories on how unfairly Ford is being treated.

This lady is scary. Straight up, demanding we toss aside such things as:
Presumption of Innocence
Due Process
Freedom of Speech

This is not a good look for the Democrat's, and they should distance themselves from her.

Yeah! It is Scary...specially when Candidate for the presidency of Untied States and His supporters are shouting lock her up, lock her up! Even though that person was not charged with one single criminal activity after 8 years of investigation! Imagine that!

Diving Mullah

 

[braindrain]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

Yes. Women should get back in the kitchen...Man the right is getting more delirious by the minute in this case.

Making up stupid srawmen to argue things no one but you is even talking about not only doesn't help your argument but it gives everyone reason to ignore anything you say.

 

[Renae]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

Maizie Hirono is fiercely correct. It's about time someone spoke the truth to the old fart misogynist dinosaur relics like Orrin Hatch and Chuck Grassley. Listen up guys, it's 2018 not 1991 and nobody is going to tolerate disregard and disdain for any woman who makes the decision to admit to being sexually molested. No more will they be able to flick her away like a fly on their lunch. They shamed and denigrated Anita Hill in 1991 but oh no, it's not going to be that easy this time. They need to put on their 'real man' pants and understand that women are no longer subservient to their male counterparts in the Senate. Women have found their voices and using it. Thank God. Good for Mazie Hirono. :applaud:applaud:applaud:applaud:applaud

So Guilty by accusation only right? Is that what you are saying?

 

[HumblePi]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

So Guilty by accusation only right? Is that what you are saying?

What I'm saying is that Orrin Hatch, McConnell and Grassley have all basically labeled her a liar already and haven't heard a word of testimony from her yet. She absolutely cannot trust these bullying Senators to treat her fairly. It's the very least anyone can do, treat her equally.

 

[braindrain]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

Pot, meet Kettle.

I have seen nothing from Republicans in these threads except the conclusion that she's a liar out to get their precious Kavanaugh. They've already made up their minds on the matter and are absolutely dead set against any further investigation.

And you think it's not super obvious that you and many on the left have done nothing but call Kavanaugh a liar and a rapists since the moment this letter cost came out. You and many others on the left have already made up your minds on the matter and are absolutely dead set against the possibility he may be innocent.

 

[trixare4kids]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...r_needs_to_be_believed_and_i_believe_her.html
She also gave orders to the press demanding that they run stories on how unfairly Ford is being treated.

This lady is scary. Straight up, demanding we toss aside such things as:
Presumption of Innocence
Due Process
Freedom of Speech

This is not a good look for the Democrat's, and they should distance themselves from her.

Schumer and the rest of his male lemmings must have taken Mazie Hirono's threats to shut up seriously. :wink: Not a word from these cowards yet.

You know though, if you go back to the confirmation hearings, she's said some pretty weird and awful things about Kavanaugh. It's obvious she thinks her high drama is going to stop Kavanaugh from being confirmed.

Another thing... if the Dems. keep this transparent charade going, they are not going to do well in the midterms winning back the Independents. People aren't stupid. They know the Dems have bit off more than they can chew this time. There is no reason that Judge Kavanaugh should be ruined without the benefit of being given due process.

 

[marke]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

I'd prefer the Democrats keep their dirty underwear to themselves. Seeing their faces on TV is disturbing enough.

Agreed. I was disgusted when Bubba Clinton donated his used underwear to charity for a tax deduction.

 

[ludin]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

And no physical evidence.

well physical evidence would have been no where, but if he had done that people would have seen
her the next day with some bruising or some other marks more so if he had really put his hands on her throat
etc ... he would have had scratches where she tried to fight him etc ...

but you would need witnesses to that and since no one has said anything that she looked beat up.
her parents surely would have seen it as well.

why is your neck red? why is your mouth all red as well etc ...
they would have gone to the police or filed something.

 

[Ikari]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

So Guilty by accusation only right? Is that what you are saying?

No, but at the same accord, you cannot treat these allegations lightly. As I said, I don't think she [Dr. Ford] needs to be immediately believed, but we should look into this to see if there's any truth to it. Also, she doesn't deserve to be victimized or smeared either. She's been forced to leave her house because of multiple threats made against her. This is where we are at in America, this is how wretched our partisanship has become. A women comes out with allegations of sexual assault, and we threaten her life and her family's life.

I don't know what could be discovered after so long, but we shouldn't dismiss the claim immediately nor should we accept it as verified truth immediately. We should look into it.

 

[Wan]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

This isn't a court that will be determining if Kavanaugh goes to jail. Being appointed to the Supreme Court is an incredible privilege and an honor. It's one that comes with an immense responsibility. Innocent until proven guilty is fine if he was being charged with sexual assault and facing prison time, but we have a duty to make sure that we have complete confidence in someone who would serve a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the land. Just like any other election the people voting on his nomination should use and consider any and all information about the candidates past when weighing in their decision. If they trust her word over his they are under no requirement to need further proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Not sure what you are saying. We should totally doubt a person's suitability as SCOTUS just because someone else made an accusation against him? Maybe the accuser has something personal against him. Or maybe she was paid to sabotage his chances of becoming Scotus. Or there could be a number of reasons. My point is, just because someone is being considered for scotus it does not mean we should automatically take all accusations against him as true. It does not matter that he is not being tried in a court. Presumption of innocence, as the OP pointed out, should apply to everyone in all settings.

 

[marke]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

No, but at the same accord, you cannot treat these allegations lightly. As I said, I don't think she [Dr. Ford] needs to be immediately believed, but we should look into this to see if there's any truth to it. Also, she doesn't deserve to be victimized or smeared either. She's been forced to leave her house because of multiple threats made against her. This is where we are at in America, this is how wretched our partisanship has become. A women comes out with allegations of sexual assault, and we threaten her life and her family's life.

I don't know what could be discovered after so long, but we shouldn't dismiss the claim immediately nor should we accept it as verified truth immediately. We should look into it.

Nobody needs to be smeared here, whether male or female. If the accuser has a legitimate claim then let her confront the accused in some sort of setting where her claims can be measured against his. That is how guilt or innocence is determined in civilized nations.

 

[MrWonka]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

Not sure what you are saying. We should totally doubt a person's suitability as SCOTUS just because someone else made an accusation against him?

If there appears to be merit to the accusation, and it's a very bad accusation then it should absolutely be factored in. There are a lot of good judges in this country that are more than capable of doing this job, and doing it well. Far better than this Kavanaugh idiot. Is it really that difficult to find one that we're confident hasn't sexually assaulted anyone?

Maybe the accuser has something personal against him.

Being sexually assaulted by a person does tend to make you hate that person.

Or maybe she was paid to sabotage his chances of becoming Scotus.

Can you provide any evidence to indicate she was? This woman is receiving death

My point is, just because someone is being considered for SCOTUS it does not mean we should automatically take all accusations against him as true.

This woman is receiving death threats every day. For the rest of her life, she will remember in the same context as Anita Hill and Monica Lewinski. Everywhere she goes, every job she holds people are going to recognize her and regardless of whether she's telling the truth or not she'll be verbally attacked by a good chunk of the country. You really think she would risk telling a bold-faced lie just to have all of this happen to her for the rest of her life?

Presumption of innocence, as the OP pointed out, should apply to everyone in all settings.

I see. So the only way you can justify ignoring her accusations is if you're flatly accusing her of lying. Don't you owe her the same presumption of innocence?

We know why Brett Kavanaugh and Republicans would lie in this scenario. They absolutely have a motive. There is no questioning that. They have a lot to gain if this **** head is confirmed to the court. But at best all you can do is speculate as to why this woman would tell a bold-faced lie. The best thing you can come up with is that she is a citizen of the United States who knew Kavanaugh well and believes so strongly that he should not be on the court that she would be willing to tell a bold-faced lie that could potentially jeopardize her life and career to keep him off of it. Even if what Republicans are was true(it almost certainly isn't) that should tell you something about his character.

 

[Wan]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

If there appears to be merit to the accusation, and it's a very bad accusation then it should absolutely be factored in.

A lot of accusations have some "merit". It does not automatically make them true. We need evidence.

There are a lot of good judges in this country that are more than capable of doing this job, and doing it well. Far better than this Kavanaugh idiot.

Calling Kavanugh an "idiot"...your bias is showing.

Is it really that difficult to find one that we're confident hasn't sexually assaulted anyone?

Prove that he sexually assaulted this woman.

Being sexually assaulted by a person does tend to make you hate that person.

You are assuming that she did get sexually assaulted. You need to prove this.

Can you provide any evidence to indicate she was? This woman is receiving death

I am not claiming that this woman did get paid to do this. I was just giving you examples to show how it's possible that sometimes people make false accusations.

This woman is receiving death threats every day. For the rest of her life, she will remember in the same context as Anita Hill and Monica Lewinski. Everywhere she goes, every job she holds people are going to recognize her and regardless of whether she's telling the truth or not she'll be verbally attacked by a good chunk of the country. You really think she would risk telling a bold-faced lie just to have all of this happen to her for the rest of her life?

So, if she will go through life being hated and attacked by everyone, this automatically makes her accusation true? Note I am not saying this woman lied. All I am saying is that we need evidence before we can decide whether an accusation is true or not.

I see. So the only way you can justify ignoring her accusations is if you're flatly accusing her of lying. Don't you owe her the same presumption of innocence?

I am not "ignoring" anything. Nor am I accusing her of lying. All I am saying is that we need evidence. Maybe this woman is lying, or maybe she is telling the truth. We don't know.

We know why Brett Kavanaugh and Republicans would lie in this scenario. They absolutely have a motive. There is no questioning that. They have a lot to gain if this **** head is confirmed to the court. But at best all you can do is speculate as to why this woman would tell a bold-faced lie. The best thing you can come up with is that she is a citizen of the United States who knew Kavanaugh well and believes so strongly that he should not be on the court that she would be willing to tell a bold-faced lie that could potentially jeopardize her life and career to keep him off of it. Even if what Republicans are was true(it almost certainly isn't) that should tell you something about his character.

I am not an American, much less a Republican. I also don't care whether Kavanugh is appointed to the supreme court or not. It would not affect me one bit. But what I find problematic is that you automatically assume that kavanaugh is guilty.

 

[jimbo]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

My guess is the "I won't testify until FBI investigates" thing came from her hack lawyer, who is no doubt colluding with the Senate Dumbs to delay or outright squash Kavanaugh.

Either testify on Monday or retract your claim. Those are your only 2 choices, lady!

There is a third choice. The most likely choice. The weak willed Republicans, who have already had hearings where stuff like this is brought up and disclosed, will again capitulate and give her another day or 6, until the next unfounded claim comes along.

The real problem once again rears its ugly head, and it's not the Democrats.

 

[MrWonka]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

A lot of accusations have some "merit". It does not automatically make them true. We need evidence.

Testimony is evidence.

Calling Kavanaugh an "idiot"...your bias is showing.

No, it isn't. The man is an idiot. That is known with 100% certainty already. The only question is if he's stupid enough to sexually assault a woman.

Prove that he sexually assaulted this woman.

I don't need to. It's his job to convince us that he didn't.

There is a very big difference between punishing someone and not rewarding them. If you want to punish someone then it is your job to prove they deserve the punishment. But if you want to be rewarded it is your job to prove you deserve the reward.

 

[Wan]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

I don't need to. It's his job to convince us that he didn't.

I can't tell if you are serious or not. You realize it's not possible to prove a negative empirically, right?

 

[Mr Person]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

This lady is scary. Straight up, demanding we toss aside such things as:
Presumption of Innocence
Due Process
Freedom of Speech
.

You don't have any idea about what those constitutional rights apply to, do you?

The first two would apply if Kavanaugh was being criminally charged with a sexual assault. He isn't.

The third....just what? This congress critter did not demand government punish anyone for the content of their speech.






It really is amazing, the way you can take a subject most people could probably agree with, then screw it up with over-the-top melodrama and stupidity.

Of course people shouldn't decide to automatically believe an accuser in any case. But that's not what's going on here, that's not what the senator said, and energetic squawking about constitutional rights that don't apply doesn't change any of that.

 

[Mr Person]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

A lot of accusations have some "merit". It does not automatically make them true. We need evidence.
.

If she testifies under oath, that will be evidence. I haven't seen one single individual complaining about how an accuser against Kavanaugh came forward EVER post a criticism of ordinary accused criminals being convicted on eye witness testimony alone, so......

:shrug:



It's like the FISA courts, the faux concern about a "deep state", the sudden convenient attacks on the FBI/CIA/Etc. A whole lot of people did not give a **** about any of that in the past or argued the opposite, and will go back to doing what they did before once it is no longer necessary to defend/deflect/deny on anything related to Trump.

 

[Renae]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

You don't have any idea about what those constitutional rights apply to, do you?

The first two would apply if Kavanaugh was being criminally charged with a sexual assault. He isn't.

The third....just what? This congress critter did not demand government punish anyone for the content of their speech.






It really is amazing, the way you can take a subject most people could probably agree with, then screw it up with over-the-top melodrama and stupidity.

Of course people shouldn't decide to automatically believe an accuser in any case. But that's not what's going on here, that's not what the senator said, and energetic squawking about constitutional rights that don't apply doesn't change any of that.

You're being your usual pedantic self and completely mischaracterizing the situation to make yourself feel better.

 

[Mr Person]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

You're being your usual pedantic self and completely mischaracterizing the situation to make yourself feel better.

When you've got nothing, attack the person.




Don't post meladramatic stupidity if you don't want to be called out for doing so. Don't base your thread on a lie if you don't want it revealed. The person you created this thread about did not say the things you claimed.

:shrug:

 

[Wan]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

If she testifies under oath, that will be evidence.

Well I am not sure how it works in your country, but it seems to me that people can still lie after they have sworn to tell the truth in a court. It's very bad and probably illegal but some people do it anyway. Also, what if the accused also swears under oath that he did not rape her? Now we would have two totally contradictory and mutually exclusive statements. So who should we listen to?

 

[Mr Person]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

If she testifies under oath, that will be evidence. I haven't seen one single individual complaining about how an accuser against Kavanaugh came forward EVER post a criticism of ordinary accused criminals being convicted on eye witness testimony alone, so......

:shrug:



It's like the FISA courts, the faux concern about a "deep state", the sudden convenient attacks on the FBI/CIA/Etc. A whole lot of people did not give a **** about any of that in the past or argued the opposite, and will go back to doing what they did before once it is no longer necessary to defend/deflect/deny on anything related to Trump.

Well I am not sure how it works in your country, but it seems to me that people can still lie after they have sworn to tell the truth in a court.

It's very bad and probably illegal but some people do it anyway. Also, what if the accused also swears under oath that he did not rape her? Now we would have two totally contradictory and mutually exclusive statements. So who should we listen to?

Lying under oath is called perjury.

The fact that someone might lie does not mean that testimony is not evidence, which is how you appear to be trying to use it. Testimony under oath is evidence, and even in a criminal trial - with the highest standard of proof - the testimony of a single witness is sufficient to convict.

The only reason most people are posting angrily about this is political. They have no problem if someone accused of rubbing an old woman at gunpoint for drug money is convicted on the testimony of a single eyewitness. They are posting hypocrisy. It's a common occurrence here.





Note: I have included the entirety of my post, since you chose to only quote one line.

 

[Renae]

Re: Sen. Hirono: Men Need To "Shut Up," Kavanaugh Accuser Needs To Be Believed And I Believe Her

Well I am not sure how it works in your country, but it seems to me that people can still lie after they have sworn to tell the truth in a court. It's very bad and probably illegal but some people do it anyway. Also, what if the accused also swears under oath that he did not rape her? Now we would have two totally contradictory and mutually exclusive statements. So who should we listen to?

Obviously Mr. Person would tell you to listen to her, she's got nothing to gain by lying where as Kavanaugh is a man, and has everything to lose so of course he's lying. See, it's lose lose for Kavanaugh atm.