• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Self Identification Demands Placed On Others

AProudLefty said:
N. O. B. O. D. Y. Claimed that imagining things make it so. Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

It seemed as if you were presenting the idea of a phantom limb as proving that the imagined limb was real and actually existed in the real world.

What was the point of presenting that idea in this context relating to this topic?
 
code1211 said:
It seemed as if you were presenting the idea of a phantom limb as proving that the imagined limb was real and actually existed in the real world.

What was the point of presenting that idea in this context relating to this topic?
Click to expand...

The point is the amputated people can still feel as if legs are still there. Transgender people see themselves as an opposite sex.
Now let's go back to the vet in question. If you just met him and he was standing wearing pants over fake leg, would you have known he's missing a leg? You would have thought he was a whole man. That is what he wanted. Same with transgender people. If you met some of them, you would have not known.

You are too fixated on the physical aspect only, expecially what's between the legs. A person is the whole being. The self expresses itself externally.
 
code1211 said:
The depth of your misunderstanding in this reflects that same depth in all areas we have touched.
Click to expand...

The depth of your misunderstanding is paralleled by your inability to comprehend whatever it was you think you had a point about...

...and the bird in my picture is still prettier than the bird in yours.
 
AProudLefty said:
The point is the amputated people can still feel as if legs are still there. Transgender people see themselves as an opposite sex.
Now let's go back to the vet in question. If you just met him and he was standing wearing pants over fake leg, would you have known he's missing a leg? You would have thought he was a whole man. That is what he wanted. Same with transgender people. If you met some of them, you would have not known.

You are too fixated on the physical aspect only, expecially what's between the legs. A person is the whole being. The self expresses itself externally.
Click to expand...

So, then, you agree that the inner gender ID of the person who wants me to pretend along with their fantasy is as real as a leg that does not exist.

If it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

Good! That is my point.
 
Rich2018 said:
The depth of your misunderstanding is paralleled by your inability to comprehend whatever it was you think you had a point about...

...and the bird in my picture is still prettier than the bird in yours.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to be able to give you the bird. ;)
 
code1211 said:
When I make known my new self identification, is everyone now obligated to treat me in the way that my new self identification demands?
Click to expand...

I think this is a good question.

I wonder what would happen if someone decided to identify as a "normal male" or a "normal female" and then demanded in social, professional, and all other settings that they are referred to by that self identification term?

Not saying that is what I do, just wondering what the reaction to that would be, and if it would honored by the same people demanding their self identification terminology be respected?
 
Court Jester said:
...I wonder what would happen if someone decided to identify as a "normal male" or a "normal female" and then demanded in social, professional, and all other settings that they are referred to by that self identification term?
Click to expand...



I would think that is not an uncommon occurrence.
 
code1211 said:
So, then, you agree that the inner gender ID of the person who wants me to pretend along with their fantasy is as real as a leg that does not exist.

If it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

Good! That is my point.
Click to expand...

Uh duh? We know it was your point. You're the one who keep insisting that we claim that the physical body will magically change. I am sorry but you have wasted your hours trying to explain the obvious to us. I've told and told and told you and you wouldn't listen.
 
code1211 said:
Terrific!

Now, why does my acceptance of a notion that is absolutely internal to the consciousness of another person either make it more or less real or more or less imagined?

If we play along sharing the same imagined reality, does that change anything in the real world? Is William Shatner really Captain James T. Kirk?
Click to expand...

Does calling yourself a Christian change anything in the real world? If I refuse to call you a Christian and decide that you are a Muslim due to some beliefs that I don't agree with, which one of us is correct? Am I being rude by doing this?

A male calling himself or herself a female does not make them a female. A male calling herself a woman makes her a woman just like a male calling himself a Christian makes him a Christian.
 
Court Jester said:
I think this is a good question.

I wonder what would happen if someone decided to identify as a "normal male" or a "normal female" and then demanded in social, professional, and all other settings that they are referred to by that self identification term?

Not saying that is what I do, just wondering what the reaction to that would be, and if it would honored by the same people demanding their self identification terminology be respected?
Click to expand...

It seems to me that this is the real goal of the constant slicing and dicing of the populace into ever smaller fragments of specialized departures from a shared recognition of sharing a common and worthwhile goal.

If we are not a whole, then we are easily pitted against one another. The alphabet gender recognition, the endless racial qualifications, the agism, the religions- it goes on and on.

With all of the various qualifiers, it's very easy to forget that we are all part of a whole in which we share far more commonalities than differences.

This is EXACTLY the reason that when Trump says "All Americans" the raving zealots cry foul.

There is no advantage for despots in facing an ideologically unified populace.

It's easier to control a fragmented collection of envious special interests all vying for their piece of the pie to be granted by the largesse of the empowered.
 
AProudLefty said:
Uh duh? We know it was your point. You're the one who keep insisting that we claim that the physical body will magically change. I am sorry but you have wasted your hours trying to explain the obvious to us. I've told and told and told you and you wouldn't listen.
Click to expand...

You have told me that a fantasy is not real and that I need to accept that it is real.

If there is another thing you are trying to tell me, you are not actually stating it.
 
lwf said:
Does calling yourself a Christian change anything in the real world? If I refuse to call you a Christian and decide that you are a Muslim due to some beliefs that I don't agree with, which one of us is correct? Am I being rude by doing this?

A male calling himself or herself a female does not make them a female. A male calling herself a woman makes her a woman just like a male calling himself a Christian makes him a Christian.
Click to expand...

That last statement is not founded in reality.

There are no physical markers present at birth that define a person as Christian or Muslim or Jewish or Shinto. Very literally, we are what we say we are in the area of religion.

Being born is only being born. Biologically, if a living being being born is of the genus homo sapien, that living being is a person. Within that general identification, there are various biological differences including age, race, size and gender.

You can say you are whatever you want to say you are. It does not change the biological reality.
 
lwf said:
Does calling yourself a Christian change anything in the real world? If I refuse to call you a Christian and decide that you are a Muslim due to some beliefs that I don't agree with, which one of us is correct? Am I being rude by doing this?

A male calling himself or herself a female does not make them a female. A male calling herself a woman makes her a woman just like a male calling himself a Christian makes him a Christian.
Click to expand...

hmm well is jesus his savior or a lesser prophet who came before muhammad?

ther are things that divide the 2 faiths even though they can be very similar

when a woman is a female and man is a male the words have a clear meaning not perfect but the 2 seem to be dived along naturally formed genitals and xx or xy chromosomes

the problem with females being men and women and males being women and men is they are the same thing at that point so every gender(most formerly sex) specific word are rendered useless and people are getting pissed off about the use of completely interchangeable words

so they can more closely be identified with a group they have striped the identity from because they value the similarities they have to (many but not all) people in that group,

the alternative is to still base gender on sex by some list of stereotypes common to most members of a sex but then you're still deciding who can be a man or a woman only now your booting females out of women if they don't conform and men out males if they don't conform.

then your only a man some place and only a woman in some places depending on local norms and you get to keep track of what gender someone is in their own time and place and your if norms shift


i think instead of treating a person's anxiety about what sex/gender a person generally fits in more with that a better approach would to be to broaden people's views about what someone with an xx chromosome and common female bits or xy chromosome with common male can be in the 1st place

people who have genetic difference to either of those or different anatomy and chromosome combo will need ther own definitions but no one should bat an eye about ther nature and what they choose to do based ther sexual classification either ( though all parties involved have a right to make an informed choice when it comes to sexul activitys based on ther own preferences for which sexes they want to get sexy with )

differences should be acknowledged between the sexes/genders but stigma for not conforming to gender/sex stereotype should be combated
 
code1211 said:
...within that general identification, there are various biological differences including age, race, size and gender...
Click to expand...

Really? So race can be identified at birth too ?

Nurses have some sort of color scale to determine it ?
 
code1211 said:
You have told me that a fantasy is not real and that I need to accept that it is real.

If there is another thing you are trying to tell me, you are not actually stating it.
Click to expand...

Did I tell you to accept that the leg exists? Did I tell you to accept that transgender person's biological sex magically changed? That's your fantasy of what I am trying to tell you and YOU want me to accept your interpretation of what I told you. :lamo

One example of "fantasy" (your word) that you might understand. You have seen women with beautiful, full and firm cleavages? The reality is that some of them have droopy and disappointing breasts. Some of them have them pushed up with tighter or special bras because they want you to see them as attractive. Same goes with make ups. With some of them you'd be screaming in horror when you wake up to their faces in the morning after one night stand. But you have no problem with calling them beautiful and attractive.
 
AProudLefty said:
Did I tell you to accept that the leg exists? Did I tell you to accept that transgender person's biological sex magically changed? That's your fantasy of what I am trying to tell you and YOU want me to accept your interpretation of what I told you. :lamo

One example of "fantasy" (your word) that you might understand. You have seen women with beautiful, full and firm cleavages? The reality is that some of them have droopy and disappointing breasts. Some of them have them pushed up with tighter or special bras because they want you to see them as attractive. Same goes with make ups. With some of them you'd be screaming in horror when you wake up to their faces in the morning after one night stand. But you have no problem with calling them beautiful and attractive.
Click to expand...

Is it true that women wear make-up just to either attract men or intimidate other women (or both) ?
 
code1211 said:
With the recent insanity regarding individuals demanding that the rest of us accept their insanity of self identification counter to reality, a thought struck me.

I happen to be an old guy about 10 or 20 pounds heavier than I would like to be. I have numerous skin areas that have veins displayed resembling maps of river deltas.

My face has wrinkles and my posture is less straight than I would prefer. My movements are far from silky smooth and my attitudes are sometimes a tad uncaring and abrasive to those around me.

I'm pretty sure that if the great majority of women witnessed my naked body, locally or internationally, they would ask me to please put some clothes on ASAP.

All of that said, I would like to self identify immediately as a very handsome, intelligent and graceful young man, physically beautiful and unblemished, with an engaging manner that is the fantasy dream of women.

When I make known my new self identification, is everyone now obligated to treat me in the way that my new self identification demands?

Just wondering... At what point will the stupid insanity of the insane Left be called out for what it is?
Click to expand...

I stumbled upon something regarding this PC ideology. And I think this probably permeates much of our ideology.

Stay with me on this. I'm going to use some examples.

It is a way for people to feel more sophisticated. Just think of the emperor's New clothes.

So an example. You have neighborhood where the housing market is real low in the property value is real low. All the sudden you see it start being gentrified. Of course people say this raises property values but it's what happens before the gentrification that raises property values.

People who had nothing to do with this neighborhood start moving in they buy houses neighborhood businesses and they upgrade them make them nice. They are sophisticated once everyone starts moving in. It's not sophisticated any more.

At one point drinking Pabst blue ribbon beer what is sophisticated then everybody started drinking it so it's no longer sophisticated.

The same thing occurs with PC culture. The create new words and new ideas to show how sophisticated they are. If you doubt this just look at the arrogance. They may not use the word unsophisticated to describe the Neanderthals that don't hold their Hi brow new age views. But they will call you bigot, knuckle dragger the most recent one mouth breather. Then they'll tell you how you need to be educated cutting edge sciences.

Have you ever wondered why it keeps going further and further out into outer space? Seems 15 years ago it was all about gay people and how we need to accept that once most people did it wasn't sophisticated any more.

The worst thing you can do to these people, the thing that will break them. Is agree. Especially if you're a Christian white gun-toting man. Because you are not sophisticated.

Another example, think about hipsters. They would wear ski caps and scarves when it's 90 degrees outside and 80% humidity. Because that was what you weren't doing. And the fact that you thought it was stupid made it cool.

The problem they will encounter there will be no place left to go.

It makes me wonder what would happen if people just embraced this crap right away. How long will the fad last
 
code1211 said:
With the recent insanity regarding individuals demanding that the rest of us accept their insanity of self identification counter to reality, a thought struck me.

I happen to be an old guy about 10 or 20 pounds heavier than I would like to be. I have numerous skin areas that have veins displayed resembling maps of river deltas.

My face has wrinkles and my posture is less straight than I would prefer. My movements are far from silky smooth and my attitudes are sometimes a tad uncaring and abrasive to those around me.

I'm pretty sure that if the great majority of women witnessed my naked body, locally or internationally, they would ask me to please put some clothes on ASAP.

All of that said, I would like to self identify immediately as a very handsome, intelligent and graceful young man, physically beautiful and unblemished, with an engaging manner that is the fantasy dream of women.

When I make known my new self identification, is everyone now obligated to treat me in the way that my new self identification demands?

Just wondering... At what point will the stupid insanity of the insane Left be called out for what it is?
Click to expand...
This professor does a great job explaining it.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I stumbled upon something regarding this PC ideology. And I think this probably permeates much of our ideology.

Stay with me on this. I'm going to use some examples.

It is a way for people to feel more sophisticated. Just think of the emperor's New clothes.

So an example. You have neighborhood where the housing market is real low in the property value is real low. All the sudden you see it start being gentrified. Of course people say this raises property values but it's what happens before the gentrification that raises property values.

People who had nothing to do with this neighborhood start moving in they buy houses neighborhood businesses and they upgrade them make them nice. They are sophisticated once everyone starts moving in. It's not sophisticated any more.

At one point drinking Pabst blue ribbon beer what is sophisticated then everybody started drinking it so it's no longer sophisticated.

The same thing occurs with PC culture. The create new words and new ideas to show how sophisticated they are. If you doubt this just look at the arrogance. They may not use the word unsophisticated to describe the Neanderthals that don't hold their Hi brow new age views. But they will call you bigot, knuckle dragger the most recent one mouth breather. Then they'll tell you how you need to be educated cutting edge sciences.

Have you ever wondered why it keeps going further and further out into outer space? Seems 15 years ago it was all about gay people and how we need to accept that once most people did it wasn't sophisticated any more.

The worst thing you can do to these people, the thing that will break them. Is agree. Especially if you're a Christian white gun-toting man. Because you are not sophisticated.

Another example, think about hipsters. They would wear ski caps and scarves when it's 90 degrees outside and 80% humidity. Because that was what you weren't doing. And the fact that you thought it was stupid made it cool.

The problem they will encounter there will be no place left to go.

It makes me wonder what would happen if people just embraced this crap right away. How long will the fad last
Click to expand...

So "cool" has to be a minority expression ?


What is the latest "cool" expression ?
 
code1211 said:
That last statement is not founded in reality.

There are no physical markers present at birth that define a person as Christian or Muslim or Jewish or Shinto. Very literally, we are what we say we are in the area of religion.

Being born is only being born. Biologically, if a living being being born is of the genus homo sapien, that living being is a person. Within that general identification, there are various biological differences including age, race, size and gender.

You can say you are whatever you want to say you are. It does not change the biological reality.
Click to expand...

False. Gender has no biological basis. Just because it is often associated with sex does not mean that it is the same thing. Religion is often associated with ethnicity, but they are not the same thing. There are as many physical markers of gender as there are of religion. A nude corpse has no religion and no gender, just a sex and an ethnicity. Maybe they were a Muslim in life, maybe they were a woman, but all you can truly tell from physical and biological markers are sex and ethnicity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom