Sea ice extent falls to new record low

[Threegoofs]

It is clear you are not here to have an honest debate, just deflect or not even try to see the obvious point I made that others here already understood.

By the way ALL those links you didn't Perouse was about THIS interglacial period, which showed there were a lot less to NO summer ice in the Arctic region than now which lasted a few THOUSAND years. The last time it was like that was during the MWP.

That was the obvious you keep fighting against.

So you can be that little child Linus hanging onto a 4 decade sea ice record blanket, which actually started in 1973 if that make you feel any better.

Still not seeing your point. It seems if it was so ‘obvious’ you’d be able to state it directly in a single sentence.

But I will note that you really support the validity of paleoclimate studies. We’ll see how long you go with that tack.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Still not seeing your point. It seems if it was so ‘obvious’ you’d be able to state it directly in a single sentence.

But I will note that you really support the validity of paleoclimate studies. We’ll see how long you go with that tack.

This point you incredibly not seeing, it right there in front of you:

By the way ALL those links you didn't Perouse was about THIS interglacial period, which showed there were a lot less to NO summer ice in the Arctic region than now which lasted a few THOUSAND years. The last time it was like that was during the MWP.

You keep saying it is a record low based on a 4 decade time frame, while I showed PEER REVIWED science papers showing much longer time frames with much lower sea ice levels.

You finally get it?

 

[Threegoofs]

This point you incredibly not seeing, it right there in front of you:



You keep saying it is a record low based on a 4 decade time frame, while I showed PEER REVIWED science papers showing much longer time frames with much lower sea ice levels.

You finally get it?

Again, I’m glad you are impressed by paleoclimate data. And are into peer reviewed studies.

Still not sure what you’re trying to imply. Of course the Arctic was ice free in the past. Sea level has also been much higher, and global temperature has been warmer.

But this was all before we adapted to the present temps and sea level, and the changes in the past would have been much, much more gradual.

 

[Jack Hays]

Again, I’m glad you are impressed by paleoclimate data. And are into peer reviewed studies.

Still not sure what you’re trying to imply. Of course the Arctic was ice free in the past. Sea level has also been much higher, and global temperature has been warmer.

But this was all before we adapted to the present temps and sea level, and the changes in the past would have been much, much more gradual.

IIRC, the Arctic was ice free, or nearly so, as recently as the MWP.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Again, I’m glad you are impressed by paleoclimate data. And are into peer reviewed studies.

Still not sure what you’re trying to imply. Of course the Arctic was ice free in the past. Sea level has also been much higher, and global temperature has been warmer.

But this was all before we adapted to the present temps and sea level, and the changes in the past would have been much, much more gradual.

You do not know that the climate changes were gradual.

You do know that the polar bears survived the no ice situations.

You have failed to show any sort of bad thing as a consequence of ice free Arctic oceans.

The loss of Arctic ocean ice will not effect sea level at all.

Basic stuff. Even for a store's man.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Again, I’m glad you are impressed by paleoclimate data. And are into peer reviewed studies.

Still not sure what you’re trying to imply. Of course the Arctic was ice free in the past. Sea level has also been much higher, and global temperature has been warmer.

But this was all before we adapted to the present temps and sea level, and the changes in the past would have been much, much more gradual.

I am glad that you finally acknowledge science papers showing credible evidence of low to no sea ice coverage.

You seem to forget that Humans LIVED through all those climate changes for THOUSANDS of years WITHOUT that wonderful technology and energy sources that help us survive better today. Surely they survived the higher sea levels and rapid sea level increase early in the interglacial period. Gosh even Cavemen knew this when they were painting in caves long ago!

That they manage to make it through a much warmer early interglacial climate without AC and that they learned how to grow crops in that much warmer higher faster changing level changes, attest that we are more adaptive then you give them credit for.

Today it is easier to survive the smaller climate changes of today........

 

[Threegoofs]

IIRC, the Arctic was ice free, or nearly so, as recently as the MWP.

Oh!

Now you are comfortable with paleoclimate data!

 

[Threegoofs]

I am glad that you finally acknowledge science papers showing credible evidence of low to no sea ice coverage.

You seem to forget that Humans LIVED through all those climate changes for THOUSANDS of years WITHOUT that wonderful technology and energy sources that help us survive better today. Surely they survived the higher sea levels and rapid sea level increase early in the interglacial period. Gosh even Cavemen knew this when they were painting in caves long ago!

That they manage to make it through a much warmer early interglacial climate without AC and that they learned how to grow crops in that much warmer higher faster changing level changes, attest that we are more adaptive then you give them credit for.

Today it is easier to survive the smaller climate changes of today........

Humans lived through it.

They had no civilization that did though.

Humanity will survive rapid climate change quite well. It’s the infrastructure that won’t.

This seems like it might be new information for you...

 

[Jack Hays]

Oh!

Now you are comfortable with paleoclimate data!

Always have been.

 

[Jack Hays]

Humans lived through it.

They had no civilization that did though.

Humanity will survive rapid climate change quite well. It’s the infrastructure that won’t.

This seems like it might be new information for you...

Hmmm. You're claiming "no civilization" during the MWP?

 

[Threegoofs]

Hmmm. You're claiming "no civilization" during the MWP?

 

[Sunsettommy]

Humans lived through it.

They had no civilization that did though.

Humanity will survive rapid climate change quite well. It’s the infrastructure that won’t.

This seems like it might be new information for you...

Climate change swings were larger in the Early Holocene, hotter too.

C3 Headlines

Are Modern Temperatures "Unprecedented"? Greenland Ice Core Research Finds They're Not Even Close, U.S. Climate Agency

The UN's IPCC political leaders, bureaucrats and the Climategate scientists have said for years that today's temperatures are "unprecedented." They also claim that all temperatures to the right of the black-dash line on the graph below are natural; and, all temperatures to the left of the black-dash line are unnatural, due to human CO2. The past visible history (as shown) of temperature records makes both these claims flat-out lies. The historical record also indicates that temperatures fluctuate up and down without any relationship to the CO2 level. (click on image to enlarge)

LINK

 

[Sunsettommy]

Ha ha ha, did you read the Abstract from the Kinnard et all 2011 paper?

 

[Jack Hays]

[h=1]Surprise: Peer reviewed study says current Arctic sea ice is more extensive than most of the past 9000 years[/h]While Joe Romm and Mark Serreze bloviate about the current Arctic sea ice being “lowest in history”, science that doesn’t have an agenda (or paying thinktank) attached says otherwise: “More importantly, there have been times when sea-ice cover was less extensive than at the end of the 20th century.” From the Hockey Schtck: Paper: Current…

 

[Threegoofs]

Ha ha ha, did you read the Abstract from the Kinnard et all 2011 paper?

Yeah.

It says...

both the duration and magnitude of the current decline in sea ice seem to be unprecedented for the past 1,450 years....

These results reinforce the assertion that sea ice is an active component of Arctic climate variability and that the recent decrease in summer Arctic sea ice is consistent with anthropogenically forced warming.

N.B. As usual, AGW is taken as a given, because outside of wingnut birther blogs, there is no scientific controversy.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Yeah.

It says...




N.B. As usual, AGW is taken as a given, because outside of wingnut birther blogs, there is no scientific controversy.

That is not the entire abstract with no link either.

Here is the whole Abstract:

Abstract

Arctic sea ice extent is now more than two million square kilometres less than it was in the late twentieth century, with important consequences for the climate, the ocean and traditional lifestyles in the Arctic1,2. Although observations show a more or less continuous decline for the past four or five decades3,4, there are few long-term records with which to assess natural sea ice variability. Until now, the question of whether or not current trends are potentially anomalous5 has therefore remained unanswerable. Here we use a network of high-resolution terrestrial proxies from the circum-Arctic region to reconstruct past extents of summer sea ice, and show that—although extensive uncertainties remain, especially before the sixteenth century—both the duration and magnitude of the current decline in sea ice seem to be unprecedented for the past 1,450 years. Enhanced advection of warm Atlantic water to the Arctic6 seems to be the main factor driving the decline of sea ice extent on multidecadal timescales, and may result from nonlinear feedbacks between sea ice and the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation. These results reinforce the assertion that sea ice is an active component of Arctic climate variability and that the recent decrease in summer Arctic sea ice is consistent with anthropogenically forced warming.

LINK

The abstract is damaging itself, can you spot it?

 

[lefty louie]

The polar ice caps just keep on shrinking, and global polar sea ice extent has reached a new satellite-era record low. This would appear to contradict repeated AGW-denier claims that a new ice age is beginning. Strange that there has been no mention of this on WUWT.

"January of 2018 began and ended with satellite-era record lows in Arctic sea ice extent, resulting in a new record low for the month. Combined with low ice extent in the Antarctic, global sea ice extent is also at a record low."

Sea ice tracking low in both hemispheres

So what's that a record since the beginning of satellite time, must be all of what, 50-60 years? What will they do when they find foot prints up there when all the ice is gone? Say well, so it has happened before!

Why is everything the end of the world? Amazingly we have polar bears today, even though the earth is far from the warmest it's ever been, I guess the bears adapt.

 

[Threegoofs]

That is not the entire abstract with no link either.

Here is the whole Abstract:

Abstract

Arctic sea ice extent is now more than two million square kilometres less than it was in the late twentieth century, with important consequences for the climate, the ocean and traditional lifestyles in the Arctic1,2. Although observations show a more or less continuous decline for the past four or five decades3,4, there are few long-term records with which to assess natural sea ice variability. Until now, the question of whether or not current trends are potentially anomalous5 has therefore remained unanswerable. Here we use a network of high-resolution terrestrial proxies from the circum-Arctic region to reconstruct past extents of summer sea ice, and show that—although extensive uncertainties remain, especially before the sixteenth century—both the duration and magnitude of the current decline in sea ice seem to be unprecedented for the past 1,450 years. Enhanced advection of warm Atlantic water to the Arctic6 seems to be the main factor driving the decline of sea ice extent on multidecadal timescales, and may result from nonlinear feedbacks between sea ice and the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation. These results reinforce the assertion that sea ice is an active component of Arctic climate variability and that the recent decrease in summer Arctic sea ice is consistent with anthropogenically forced warming.

LINK

The abstract is damaging itself, can you spot it?

Why can’t you actually make your point?

 

[Lord of Planar]

It is clear you are not here to have an honest debate, just deflect or not even try to see the obvious point I made that others here already understood.

By the way ALL those links you didn't Perouse was about THIS interglacial period, which showed there were a lot less to NO summer ice in the Arctic region than now which lasted a few THOUSAND years. The last time it was like that was during the MWP.

That was the obvious you keep fighting against.

So you can be that little child Linus hanging onto a 4 decade sea ice record blanket, which actually started in 1973 if that make you feel any better.

Sunny how he loses an argument of sheet ice, so he throw a spitwad on sea ice, hoping it will stick.

My answer is the ice albedo changes due to soot. Not warming because of CO2.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Why can’t you actually make your point?

Why can't you see the weak spot in the abstract?

it is not hard to find.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Ha ha ha, did you read the Abstract from the Kinnard et all 2011 paper?

3fools has never read any paper.

 

[code1211]

The polar ice caps just keep on shrinking, and global polar sea ice extent has reached a new satellite-era record low. This would appear to contradict repeated AGW-denier claims that a new ice age is beginning. Strange that there has been no mention of this on WUWT.

"January of 2018 began and ended with satellite-era record lows in Arctic sea ice extent, resulting in a new record low for the month. Combined with low ice extent in the Antarctic, global sea ice extent is also at a record low."

Sea ice tracking low in both hemispheres

Apparently this has less to do with the air temperature than one might have guessed.

Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis | Sea ice data updated daily with one-day lag
<snip>
Antarctic sea ice also low, leading to low global sea ice extent
In the Southern Hemisphere, after January 11 sea ice began tracking low, leading to a January average extent that was the second lowest on record.

The lowest extent for this time of year was in 2017. Extent is below average in the Ross Sea and the West Amundsen Seas, while elsewhere extent remains close to average.

The low ice extent is puzzling, given that air temperatures at the 925 hPa level are near average or below average (relative to the 1981 to 2010 period) over much of the Southern Ocean.

The Weddell and Amundsen Seas were 1 to 2 degrees Celsius (2 to 4 degrees Fahrenheit) below average.

Slightly above-average temperatures were the rule in the northwestern Ross Sea.
<snip>

 

[Jack Hays]

[h=4]A New Paper Documents An Overall Rising Sea Ice Trend Since The 1920s-’40s In West Greenland[/h]
In a new paper, Allan et al. (2018) find the months-per-year sea ice cover during the last century (1900-2007) are quite similar to the average months-per-year sea ice cover during the 1600 B.C.E. to 500 C.E. period in West Greenland. Upon close inspection, their reconstruction also shows that most of the lowest sea ice cover values of the last century occurred during the 1920s to 1940s, with a sharp spike and an overall increase after the 1950s.
Allan et al., 2018
[h=6]“Our record shows variations with a mean 200 years periodicity until ~2 ka BP, which supports the hypothesis of climate variations driven by solar variability. After 1.5 ka BP, our data show a variability characterized by a 60–70 year periodicity, which suggests linkages with the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation and southwestward migration of the atmospheric polar front. The most recent part of the record, from ~1900 CE to 2007 CE, is characterized by assemblages reflecting warmer surface conditions and reduced sea ice cover.”[/h]

---

 

[Sunsettommy]

3fools has never read any paper.

Even with this hint, he won't see it:

Here we use a network of high-resolution terrestrial proxies from the circum-Arctic region to reconstruct past extents of summer sea ice, and show that—although extensive uncertainties remain, especially before the sixteenth century—both the duration and magnitude of the current decline in sea ice seem to be unprecedented for the past 1,450 years.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Even with this hint, he won't see it:

Yep, confirmation bias at full throttle!