Science of the Bible

[MrWonderful]

Redress closed the original thread, Science of the Bible, with this warning:

"Please do not necro threads that have not been posted in for months."

I searched the Forum Rules in vain for the word "necro."

Nor is there the slightest hint that you must not respond to a thread that has not been posted to in "months."

Accordingly I am beginning this new thread.


Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The Holy Bible was written more than 2000 years ago. In 1924, Edwin Hubble proved that the spiral nebula in the constellation Andromeda was a separate island universe, apart from the Milky Way. This extended the size and scale of our universe by many orders of magnitude. Then, after hearing Albert Einstein's theory of relativity, Georges Lemaître, an ordained Catholic priest, proposed the “primeval atom” in 1927 – in other words, the creation of the universe. This breathtaking advancement in scientific thinking came not from a pontificating atheist, claiming to have exclusive jurisdiction over truth and science, but rather from a devoted follower of the Creator of heaven and earth. Contrary to their pretensions, atheists do not possess the only key to discovery and knowledge.

In 1929, Fred Hubble discovered the Red Shift, eliminating any doubt that Lemaitre was right and Einstein wrong. Einstein had said to Lemaître , "your mathematics is correct but your physics is abominable." This phenomenon, Red Shift, shows that some galaxies are moving away from us at greater speeds than others, and that such velocities are proportional to their distance. This gave strong corroboration to the Big Bang theory of creation. The residual heat predicted in 1927 by Lemaître, and derisively dismissed by Albert Einstein, was later confirmed by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson who in 1965 discovered the residual background radiation which is a remnant of the Big Bang. Penzias and Wilson of course received the Nobel Prize for their discovery, which was accidental. The penning of Genesis 1:1 was not.

Prior to Lemaître’s radical proposal, scientists believed that the universe was eternal, that it had always been as we see it today. An inherent aspect of the Steady State Universe is the assumption that matter is continuously being created, somewhere, somehow. This passed for science, until it was disproved in the 1965 Astrophysical Journal.

So we see Twentieth Century confirmation of the profoundly deep science originally expressed in the first sentence of the first paragraph of the first book of the Bible, and scientifically advanced centuries later by a Catholic priest (A “Fundie”), before anyone else.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Modern chemistry could not have begun before 1802, when John Dalton formally provided experimental evidence that matter is composed of discrete atoms. Everything before this was mere speculation – guesswork. Nevertheless, it is clearly stated in Genesis that man is “formed of the dust of the ground”, which is to say, the same elements of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, iron, nitrogen, etc, that we find in . . . dust of the ground, minerals.


Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every foul of the air;

The same elements which form humans also form animals everywhere. However, there is no Biblical reference to “a living soul” with respect to animals. Nor do animals have the capacity to worship and appreciate the spirituality and hope that is one of the premier hallmarks of mankind, and our supreme bequest.

 

[MrWonderful]

Genesis 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

One would think that as a result of the disciplines and analyses and benefits of human enlightenment, mankind should have been able to eliminate corruption and violence so prevalent thousands of years ago. Today, we have tools of production and health and social enlightenment unimaginable when the book of Genesis was written. But the earth today is still full of corruption and violence. Cornucopias of goods and services have not satisfied mankind’s lust for more, nor have psychologists and sociologists resolved the complex issues that lead people into destructive behavior. With burgeoning prison populations, and monstrous acts of evil on the increase worldwide, there seems little hope that corruption and violence will ever be eradicated.

Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

Although the North American Continent was unknown when the Bible was written, paleontologists confirm that the interior of North America was once covered by shallow seas. Fossil evidence from distant parts of the globe that were unknown to inhabitants of ancient Israel lends scientific confirmation to the Noachian Flood described in the most ancient book of science known to man, the Holy Bible. I do not pretend to know the length of the six "days" of creation. However it is abundantly clear to me that the Elegance of Everything and the insuperable statistics of abiogenesis1 and the Anthropic Principle2 are eternally inexplicable by any exclusively naturalistic method. To those with eyes, God’s Hand is clearly visible everywhere one looks.

Exodus 3:14 I am hath sent me unto you.....

John 9:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The naturalistic, if you will, “scientific” approach to explaining how man and energy and matter and space originated is to examine what is observable, and formulate hypotheses and theories based on observation and reason. There is no scientific explanation for the origin of matter and energy and information at the Moment of Creation, the Singularity, and obviously no experiment can examine, much less confirm any hypothesis of what first happened to lead to us and everything we see.

In contrast, God defies scientific explanation because He is outside its purview. If miracles were scientifically explicable, they would not be miracles. After all, God created the physical realm that is the subject of scientific inquiry and we are still desperately trying to understand that aspect of His handiwork. Had mere mortals written where God came from without divine inspiration, they surely could not have presented such an elegant explanation as “I am” – an explanation that suffices even two thousand years later. Where did God come from? "I am." The universe is not eternal, but God is.

I have only a vague notion of how my computer works as I type this on it. Although I don’t know how it works, I do know that it is real and that it operates in a marvelous, almost magical way. I don’t need to understand things to believe in and use them. And how much more marvelous is my brain and yours than these primitive computers, not one of which designed, much less built itself.

“Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith. Wonderful things in both science and religion come from our efforts based on observations, thoughtful assumptions, faith and logic. (With the findings of modern physics, it) seems extremely unlikely (that the existence of life and humanity are ) just accidental.” – Charles Townes, Nobel Laureate and Professor of Physics at UC Berkeley

 

[RabidAlpaca]

The same elements which form humans also form animals everywhere. However, there is no Biblical reference to “a living soul” with respect to animals. Nor do animals have the capacity to worship and appreciate the spirituality and hope that is one of the premier hallmarks of mankind, and our supreme bequest.

Neither do I, I just can't worship a vindictive asshole. I can't do it, totally incapable. I guess that means I don't have a soul, according to you. Tons of things are not in the Bible but exist, so the lack of the Bible mentioning it is not proof that animals have no souls and you've listed nothing scientific that supports the Bible. We're all animals, so if animals don't have souls, neither do we. Your arbitrarily defined yardstick for having a soul based on having Christian beliefs or not is duly rejected.

 

[Tim the plumber]

In the last thread you claimed to be well versed in science.

What sort of science?

 

[zyzygy]

In the last thread you claimed to be well versed in science.

What sort of science?

Not science as we know it, Jim.

 

[MrWonderful]

In the last thread you claimed to be well versed in science.

What sort of science?

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Chemistry in particular but also physics, astronomy, biology and medicine. My family doctor said to me, "Would you like to stand in for me when I'm on vacation?"

Doctors and nurses kill patients every day, more patients than the number of victims killed by so-called "assault rifles."

 

[Daisy]

Not science as we know it, Jim.

Jim? I thought it was Tim...:2razz:

 

[Hari Seldon]

Neither do I, I just can't worship a vindictive asshole. I can't do it, totally incapable. I guess that means I don't have a soul, according to you. Tons of things are not in the Bible but exist, so the lack of the Bible mentioning it is not proof that animals have no souls and you've listed nothing scientific that supports the Bible. We're all animals, so if animals don't have souls, neither do we. Your arbitrarily defined yardstick for having a soul based on having Christian beliefs or not is duly rejected.

Apparently God has all of Man's weaknesses. You would think a God would be above such imperfection.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Apparently God has all of Man's weaknesses. You would think a God would be above such imperfection.

From the stories in the Bible we can say he's angry, violent, genocidal, unforgiving and tyrannical. Any being that acts like the dickwad described in that book is not the creator of the universe, assuming there was one.

 

[zyzygy]

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Chemistry in particular but also physics, astronomy, biology and medicine. My family doctor said to me, "Would you like to stand in for me when I'm on vacation?"

Doctors and nurses kill patients every day, more patients than the number of victims killed by so-called "assault rifles."

Of course we believe you.

 

[zyzygy]

From the stories in the Bible we can say he's angry, violent, genocidal, unforgiving and tyrannical. Any being that acts like the dickwad described in that book is not the creator of the universe.

Stories being the operative word. Fiction.

 

[MrWonderful]

Neither do I, I just can't worship a vindictive asshole. I can't do it, totally incapable. I guess that means I don't have a soul, according to you. Tons of things are not in the Bible but exist, so the lack of the Bible mentioning it is not proof that animals have no souls and you've listed nothing scientific that supports the Bible. We're all animals, so if animals don't have souls, neither do we. Your arbitrarily defined yardstick for having a soul based on having Christian beliefs or not is duly rejected.

Your errors are many in such few words.

1. Calling God "vindictive" is your interpretation of history. Who are YOU to judge Nature's God? What gives you such arrogant authority?
2. I didn't say you have no soul. Again that is your misinterpretation. Leftists and atheists are infamous for misinterpreting everything, intentionally.
3. That you reject my reflections is simple atheist dogma. It agrees with US or it is discarded. We (atheists) are supreme.
4. Nowhere did I demand Christian beliefs as "a yardstick" for having a soul. Nowhere. Again, your intentional mistake.
5. What you reject or accept has no bearing on reality. Should you think otherwise, I'll give you a goofy repartee so famous among atheists:

"Reject gravity and jump off a cliff. See how well that works." ark, ark, wink, nudge

I recommend you listen to Professor John Lennox' lecture "A Matter of Gravity" on YouTube.

You have much to learn before your time on this earth is up.

 

[Hari Seldon]

From the stories in the Bible we can say he's angry, violent, genocidal, unforgiving and tyrannical. Any being that acts like the dickwad described in that book is not the creator of the universe, assuming there was one.

Or not much of a God.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Your errors are many in such few words.

1. Calling God "vindictive" is your interpretation of history. Who are YOU to judge Nature's God? What gives you such arrogant authority?
2. I didn't say you have no soul. Again that is your misinterpretation. Leftists and atheists are infamous for misinterpreting everything, intentionally.
3. That you reject my reflections is simple atheist dogma. It agrees with US or it is discarded. We (atheists) are supreme.
4. Nowhere did I demand Christian beliefs as "a yardstick" for having a soul. Nowhere. Again, your intentional mistake.
5. What you reject or accept has no bearing on reality. Should you think otherwise, I'll give you a goofy repartee so famous among atheists:

"Reject gravity and jump off a cliff. See how well that works." ark, ark, wink, nudge

I recommend you listen to Professor John Lennox' lecture "A Matter of Gravity" on YouTube.

You have much to learn before your time on this earth is up.

1) I'm not judging nature's god, I'm judging the idiotic caricature of a god you imagined up.
2) You said animals don't have souls because they can't worship, yet we are highly evolved animals and I'm incapable of worship, therefore by your definition I don't have a soul.
3) I don't know what that means.
4) Yes, you literally said that if one lacks the ability to worship the Christian god then he can't have a soul.
5) Exactly, your beliefs have no bearing on reality. You have not a single shred of evidence for god's existence but you choose to believe it anyway because you lack the courage to face your own mortality and the intrinsic meaningless of existence.

There's nothing any of us are required to learn before we die, you're just making things up.

The same elements which form humans also form animals everywhere. However, there is no Biblical reference to “a living soul” with respect to animals. Nor do animals have the capacity to worship and appreciate the spirituality and hope that is one of the premier hallmarks of mankind, and our supreme bequest.

 

[zyzygy]

Your errors are many in such few words.

1. Calling God "vindictive" is your interpretation of history. Who are YOU to judge Nature's God? What gives you such arrogant authority?
2. I didn't say you have no soul. Again that is your misinterpretation. Leftists and atheists are infamous for misinterpreting everything, intentionally.
3. That you reject my reflections is simple atheist dogma. It agrees with US or it is discarded. We (atheists) are supreme.
4. Nowhere did I demand Christian beliefs as "a yardstick" for having a soul. Nowhere. Again, your intentional mistake.
5. What you reject or accept has no bearing on reality. Should you think otherwise, I'll give you a goofy repartee so famous among atheists:

"Reject gravity and jump off a cliff. See how well that works." ark, ark, wink, nudge

I recommend you listen to Professor John Lennox' lecture "A Matter of Gravity" on YouTube.

You have much to learn before your time on this earth is up.

Your proof of the existence of this god is........?

 

[MrWonderful]

Apparently God has all of Man's weaknesses. You would think a God would be above such imperfection.
Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov

Asimov, a blowhard and utterly hateful atheist who cheated on his wife at every opportunity. Was that "right"?
How about neglecting his son, who was arrested a few years back for having hundreds of child porn images on his personal computer? "Right" to own child porn?

Asimov was afraid of flying as he pretended to embrace science. "Right" not to fly for fear?

Asimov couldn't even write right. His book Counting the Eons was fraught with errors and ignorance. I wrote his publisher but the old fool couldn't answer any of my challenges.
So typical of the left. Just attack the person and ignore facts and principles.

 

[zyzygy]

Asimov, a blowhard and utterly hateful atheist who cheated on his wife at every opportunity. Was that "right"?
How about neglecting his son, who was arrested a few years back for having hundreds of child porn images on his personal computer? "Right" to own child porn?

Asimov was afraid of flying as he pretended to embrace science. "Right" not to fly for fear?

Asimov couldn't even write right. His book Counting the Eons was fraught with errors and ignorance. I wrote his publisher but the old fool couldn't answer any of my challenges.
So typical of the left. Just attack the person and ignore facts and principles.

What does that rant have to do with the lack of science in the Bible?

 

[MrWonderful]

1) I'm not judging nature's god, I'm judging the idiotic caricature of a god you imagined up.
2) You said animals don't have souls because they can't worship, yet we are highly evolved animals and I'm incapable of worship, therefore by your definition I don't have a soul.
3) I don't know what that means.
4) Yes, you literally said that if one lacks the ability to worship the Christian god then he can't have a soul.

For your insistence on hateful and inane responses, join your friend on my Ignore List, Rabid(sic)Alpaca.
ciao


The same elements which form humans also form animals everywhere. However, there is no Biblical reference to “a living soul” with respect to animals. Nor do animals have the capacity to worship and appreciate the spirituality and hope that is one of the premier hallmarks of mankind, and our supreme bequest.

 

[zyzygy]

Biblical scientific errors - RationalWiki

 

[zyzygy]

For your insistence on hateful and inane responses, join your friend on my Ignore List, Rabid(sic)Alpaca.
ciao


The same elements which form humans also form animals everywhere. However, there is no Biblical reference to “a living soul” with respect to animals. Nor do animals have the capacity to worship and appreciate the spirituality and hope that is one of the premier hallmarks of mankind, and our supreme bequest.

Keep running away!

 

[Hari Seldon]

Asimov, a blowhard and utterly hateful atheist who cheated on his wife at every opportunity. Was that "right"?
How about neglecting his son, who was arrested a few years back for having hundreds of child porn images on his personal computer? "Right" to own child porn?

Asimov was afraid of flying as he pretended to embrace science. "Right" not to fly for fear?

Asimov couldn't even write right. His book Counting the Eons was fraught with errors and ignorance. I wrote his publisher but the old fool couldn't answer any of my challenges.
So typical of the left. Just attack the person and ignore facts and principles.

Now look who is attacking the person. He was afraid of flying so he should be vilified? He has written numerous books, articles and essays but I am sure you know better. I pretty much stuck to his SF which is extremely entertaining. Apparently he had the same weaknesses as your god, go figure.

 

[zyzygy]

1) I'm not judging nature's god, I'm judging the idiotic caricature of a god you imagined up.
2) You said animals don't have souls because they can't worship, yet we are highly evolved animals and I'm incapable of worship, therefore by your definition I don't have a soul.
3) I don't know what that means.
4) Yes, you literally said that if one lacks the ability to worship the Christian god then he can't have a soul.
5) Exactly, your beliefs have no bearing on reality. You have not a single shred of evidence for god's existence but you choose to believe it anyway because you lack the courage to face your own mortality and the intrinsic meaningless of existence.

There's nothing any of us are required to learn before we die, you're just making things up.

He has no answers for you, all he has is blind belief.

 

[zyzygy]

Now look who is attacking the person. He was afraid of flying so he should be vilified? He has written numerous books, articles and essays but I am sure you know better. I pretty much stuck to his SF which is extremely entertaining. Apparently he had the same weaknesses as your god, go figure.

I am sure that he doesn't know better.

 

[zyzygy]

The Bible is filled with errors and mistakes. Other ancient texts also have errors and mistakes, but this isn't a problem because people don't expect the authors of those texts to be perfect. The Bible, in contrast, is claimed by many believers to be infallible, inerrant and perfect. Many base their entire religious ideology around the presumption that the Bible is free from errors or mistakes, so demonstrating the presence of errors is key to rebutting their religious claims.

Are There Errors & Mistakes in the Bible?
Of course there are errors and mistakes in the Bible; the only people who deny the presence of errors and mistakes are those with a strong ideological commitment to a belief that the Bible is somehow infallible, inerrant, or perfect. We can find errors and mistakes everywhere we look in the Bible because it's a collection of texts written centuries and millennia ago. Not all of the writers agreed and they were all ignorant of things humans have learned since then.

Scientific, Historical Errors and Mistakes in the Bible

 

[RabidAlpaca]

For your insistence on hateful and inane responses, join your friend on my Ignore List, Rabid(sic)Alpaca.
ciao


The same elements which form humans also form animals everywhere. However, there is no Biblical reference to “a living soul” with respect to animals. Nor do animals have the capacity to worship and appreciate the spirituality and hope that is one of the premier hallmarks of mankind, and our supreme bequest.

It's a mark of insecurity in your religious beliefs to block anybody that challenges your fragile world view. Whatever will I do without the musings of some nutty internet Christian?