School Shootings: The 'Elephant in the Room'

[Cardinal]

Pinocchio, my what a long nose you have...
Be sure not to trip over it.

Post #95. The Pinocchio nose is your own.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

@Bob

He is fabricating a horrible slander as a means to not engage with the issue.

I see that as do most others, he is only fooling himself and maybe a few of the gullible types.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

Throughout the thread.

So, nothing you can point to? That's what I thought, you made the claim, now back it up or be known for making dishonest claims and running from them.

 

[trixare4kids]

Post #95. The Pinocchio nose is your own.

Where's the vilification? Where did I abuse or disparage this student I quoted below?

My post about you stands. Deal with it, Pinocchio.

Former classmates would mock Cruz for posting pictures of himself with knives and guns on social media, according to Manolo Alvarez, 17, a student at the campus.

“They would say he looked like a school shooter,” Alvarez said.
Confessed Parkland school shooter, like others before him, left ominous signs | Miami Herald

 

[Tigerace117]

So, nothing you can point to? That's what I thought, you made the claim, now back it up or be known for making dishonest claims and running from them.

Nope, actually he makes the claim throughout the thread, so just listing one or two posts is irrelevant.

But then again, everyone already knows you struggle with basic reading and comprehension, so it’s no surprise you weren’t competent enough to notice it.

 

[xMathFanx]

@Trix

[In response to your quote]

Yes, which are all clear signs of a desperate, troubled boy crying out for help. Hence, society failed him and itself--as he ultimately claimed the lives of others and lost his own; when things could have, should have, been very different.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

Nope, actually he makes the claim throughout the thread, so just listing one or two posts is irrelevant.

But then again, everyone already knows you struggle with basic reading and comprehension, so it’s no surprise you weren’t competent enough to notice it.

What a post fail, first give an excuse on why you cant back your claim, then go on to deflect by a weak attempt to insult me. How pathetic.

Your inability to back your dishonest claim has nothing to do with me personally, now back your false and slanderous claim.

 

[Trinnity]

Throughout the thread.

Can't defend your argument with specifics so you point to "the whole thread".

So funny.

 

[trixare4kids]

@Trix

[In response to your quote]

Yes, which are all clear signs of a desperate, troubled boy crying out for help. Hence, society failed him and itself--as he ultimately claimed the lives of others and lost his own; when things could have, should have, been very different.

Scapegoating the type of gun, ammo, bumpstocks, the NRA, the lawful gun owner does not cut it. Inanimate objects, law abiding gun owners, and lastly an organization called the NRA did not fail Cruz.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

I'd also like to know how he stockpiled all those weapons in the last year and his guardians seemed to not know or didn't care.

They used it as a tool for his obedience. They kept it locked away and only let him touch his guns once even though he was 18. The day he shot the school up he accessed it without permission. The cops said they werent allowed to take his guns away so instead they just made a rule where he was never allowed to touch them.

 

[VanceMack]

Is this problem exclusive to America?

Is there no bullying in the UK or Japan or France for example?

No violent video games, no social media, no violent movies and music?

Well, then why is there such disparity in school shootings?

THAT is the "elephant in the room."

Thx

Reports indicate that in Japan, the tendency is towards internal response vs external. The more common response to bullying is suicide. Anecdotally..."70,000 reported cases of bullying in Japan, legal affairs bureaus made cases out of a record 3,988 acts of bullying in 2012. The national police agency fully investigated 260 cases of school bullying that year, more than twice the number in 2011, which was the highest in 25 years. The report said 511 students were arrested or taken into custody for bullying, more than twice the 219 in 2011."

"One student was, over months, taunted, then beaten, then forced to shoplift items for the bullies, and eventually forced to eat dead bees. That student sparked a recent national outcry on bullying when he committed suicide at the age of 13. Teachers at the school were aware of the problem, but had only responded with a verbal warning.

One student came to class to find his desk had been transformed into a memorial, with a wreath and a picture of him in the center, incense lit and a condolence card filled with mocking messages from students and some teachers, including his 57-year-old homeroom teacher who was aware the student hadn’t died.

In Japan, bullying is called ijime, and it has some distinctive differences from Western bullying in that it is rooted in psychological cruelty which may or may not be attached to violence. Some 80% of bullying among school students in Japan qualifies as “collective” violence, meaning entire classrooms vs a single victim, and 90% of the cases are considered ongoing, lasting more than a week."

 

[VanceMack]

I'd also like to know how he stockpiled all those weapons in the last year and his guardians seemed to not know or didn't care.

As I understand it, the people he was staying with were not his guardian (he was already 19). His guardian ended up kicking hm out of the house after insisting he get rid of the guns and him openly defying her, then breaking things in the home (she was the one that repeatedly called the cops who did nothing to help her). The people he lived with tate they insisted he keep the guns locked up...but all they could do was kick him out since he is an adult.

 

[xMathFanx]

Reports indicate that in Japan, the tendency is towards internal response vs external. The more common response to bullying is suicide. Anecdotally..."70,000 reported cases of bullying in Japan, legal affairs bureaus made cases out of a record 3,988 acts of bullying in 2012. "

@VanceMack

Yes--I saw that person's post as well and was going to get back with the obvious reply "It is a problem elsewhere in the world, it simply manifests itself differently in other areas for a variety of reasons."

 

[VanceMack]

@VanceMack

Yes--I saw that person's post as well and was going to get back with the obvious reply "It is a problem elsewhere in the world, it simply manifests itself differently in other areas for a variety of reasons."

Im not surprised the people in the UK dont lash out. The royals subjects have been conditioned to just eat ****. When they allowed themselves to be arrested for joking comments on Facebook, you had to know the end was nigh.

 

[poweRob]

They used it as a tool for his obedience. They kept it locked away and only let him touch his guns once even though he was 18. The day he shot the school up he accessed it without permission. The cops said they werent allowed to take his guns away so instead they just made a rule where he was never allowed to touch them.

So much for, "My house my rules!"

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

@FreedomFromAll

Society has not been addressing bullying for decades--in fact, as another member pointed out, things have gotten much worse (though, in a different way). That is, the legal structure now gives highly passive aggressive people free reign on their victims, as they know as long as the 'touch barrier' is not crossed, there is nothing the other person (the target) can do to fight back (in any direct way). If the target ever did fight back through physical force, they are liable to get suspended, expelled, and/or face permanent legal charges against them. Actually, this is, in my view, a huge part of the reason why we see more of these school shootings. As, in previous decades, the target could blow off some steam and set some sort of boundaries for the harassment/abuse as they were able to physically confront their bullies. Also, note, the main type of bullying that Cruz, the Columbine shooters, etc. faced was extreme social ostracism/rejection, which really can only be addressed from a collaborative effort of some significant portion of people who stand up for them, refuse ostracize them, and go out of their way to socially include them in some relevant (however small) way. Which, overwhelming, has not been the case--hence, why people want to brush the whole thing under the rug.

Those are all interesting opinions but, That is all they seem to be.

https://www.stopbullying.gov/laws/index.html

"
Laws & Policies

State and local lawmakers have taken action to prevent bullying and protect children. Through laws (in their state education codes and elsewhere) and model policies (that provide guidance to districts and schools), each state addresses bullying differently. Find out how your state refers to bullying in its laws and what they require on part of schools and districts.

Bullying, cyberbullying, and related behaviors may be addressed in a single law or may be addressed in multiple laws. In some cases, bullying appears in the criminal code of a state that may apply to juveniles.

In December 2010, the U.S. Department of Education reviewed state laws and identified 11 key components common among many of those laws.

Click on your state below to find out more about your state’s anti-bullying laws and policies and which of the key components they contain."

 

[xMathFanx]

Those are all interesting opinions but, That is all they seem to be.

https://www.stopbullying.gov/laws/index.html

"
Laws & Policies

State and local lawmakers have taken action to prevent bullying and protect children. Through laws (in their state education codes and elsewhere) and model policies (that provide guidance to districts and schools), each state addresses bullying differently. Find out how your state refers to bullying in its laws and what they require on part of schools and districts.

Bullying, cyberbullying, and related behaviors may be addressed in a single law or may be addressed in multiple laws. In some cases, bullying appears in the criminal code of a state that may apply to juveniles.

In December 2010, the U.S. Department of Education reviewed state laws and identified 11 key components common among many of those laws.

Click on your state below to find out more about your state’s anti-bullying laws and policies and which of the key components they contain."

@FFA

No, these policies, campaigns, etc. are analogous to gilded jewelry--put a thin gold layer on top of a rotten core, and it superficially looks nice. Not only does it not address the problems, but it opens the door for self-delusion, where people can lead themselves to imagine everything is good--and people will do anything to stay in 'Disneyland'.

I would really like someone who takes the position you have adopted to engage with my reference to the Netflix show, "13 Reasons Why". It does a good job of presenting a very soft version of what this looks like IRL.

 

[Thx]

Reports indicate that in Japan, the tendency is towards internal response vs external. The more common response to bullying is suicide. Anecdotally..."70,000 reported cases of bullying in Japan, legal affairs bureaus made cases out of a record 3,988 acts of bullying in 2012. The national police agency fully investigated 260 cases of school bullying that year, more than twice the number in 2011, which was the highest in 25 years. The report said 511 students were arrested or taken into custody for bullying, more than twice the 219 in 2011."

"One student was, over months, taunted, then beaten, then forced to shoplift items for the bullies, and eventually forced to eat dead bees. That student sparked a recent national outcry on bullying when he committed suicide at the age of 13. Teachers at the school were aware of the problem, but had only responded with a verbal warning.

One student came to class to find his desk had been transformed into a memorial, with a wreath and a picture of him in the center, incense lit and a condolence card filled with mocking messages from students and some teachers, including his 57-year-old homeroom teacher who was aware the student hadn’t died.

In Japan, bullying is called ijime, and it has some distinctive differences from Western bullying in that it is rooted in psychological cruelty which may or may not be attached to violence. Some 80% of bullying among school students in Japan qualifies as “collective” violence, meaning entire classrooms vs a single victim, and 90% of the cases are considered ongoing, lasting more than a week."

Yes, it is all but officially institutionalized.

And the UK also has a reputation for it.

So, let's contrast that to the number of school shootings between the US and those places and see if we can find, well, something that might correlate to this disparity, some "elephant in the room."

Thx

 

[braindrain]

Okay righties... you came out of the gates defending the NRA by blaming mental health. Now you guys are saying that he was mentally fine but drove over the edge by these other kids. When this tactic fails, what other excuses are you going to come up with? The grass was wet? The sun was in your eyes? What?

And I am sure you can quote someone saying he was mentally fine. Because I am sure you wouldn't just be making crap up.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

While I am not a proponent of more gun control laws, I also don’t buy the “they will just use a bomb instead” argument. For regular terroristic attacks with a political motive, sure, but not these school attacks. These school shooters want to kill people up close and personal. They want to see the people running in fear and getting hit by their bullets. They want to look bad ass while doing. And many if not most want to go out in a blaze of glory. They aren’t going to use bombs, even if they were mentally together enough to figure out how to make and use them.

 

[VanceMack]

Yes, it is all but officially institutionalized.

And the UK also has a reputation for it.

So, let's contrast that to the number of school shootings between the US and those places and see if we can find, well, something that might correlate to this disparity, some "elephant in the room."

Thx

Oh YOU mean 'guns'. Right? Sorry...thats just not the case. The Japanese culture leads to an INTERNAL response. The British culture leads to a bend over and take it in the ass response. In the US...the response is RADICALLY mixed, BUT considering the fact that there have been only 16 mass shootings in schools in 36 years (and that there is no indication that the Umpqua Community College shooter, the VA Tech shooter, The Sandy Hook shooter, the Oikos University shooter, The Northern Illinois Shooter, etc ever suffered bullying) and that there are 360,000 schools in the country, and approx 120 million gun owners, the fact remains that while sensational and tragic, school shootings remain an infinitesimally small percentage of occurrences (.0000011%) in this country...so trying to make THAT equal 'causation' means one thing....you are trying too hard to make reality fit your cause.

 

[poweRob]

And I am sure you can quote someone saying he was mentally fine. Because I am sure you wouldn't just be making crap up.

The many on the right in here were claiming he was pushed over the edge by these kids that are speaking up today. Either he was over the edge already or he was pushed over the edge. Your troops you are deflecting for in this thread are claiming the survivors pushed him.

 

[xMathFanx]

(and that there is no indication that the Umpqua Community College shooter, the VA Tech shooter, The Sandy Hook shooter, the Oikos University shooter, The Northern Illinois Shooter, etc ever suffered bullying)

@VanceMack

You know, when you talk off the top of your head, you tend to get things wrong..

(A) Ex-classmates say gunman was bullied - US news - Crime & courts - Massacre at Virginia Tech | NBC News

(B) Seung-Hui Cho of Virginia Tech, a victim of bullying and repetitive humiliation? - CNN iReport

(C) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1549197/School-bullying-clue-to-killers-motive.html

 

[Thx]

Oh YOU mean 'guns'. Right? Sorry...thats just not the case. The Japanese culture leads to an INTERNAL response. The British culture leads to a bend over and take it in the ass response. In the US...the response is RADICALLY mixed, BUT considering the fact that there have been only 16 mass shootings in schools in 36 years (and that there is no indication that the Umpqua Community College shooter, the VA Tech shooter, The Sandy Hook shooter, the Oikos University shooter, The Northern Illinois Shooter, etc ever suffered bullying) and that there are 360,000 schools in the country, and approx 120 million gun owners, the fact remains that while sensational and tragic, school shootings remain an infinitesimally small percentage of occurrences (.0000011%) in this country...so trying to make THAT equal 'causation' means one thing....you are trying too hard to make reality fit your cause.

Great, so all we have to do is change human nature.

No, the US is only unique by the number of school shootings and access to guns.

"If guns made you safer, then America would be the safest country on Earth."

Thx

 

[Tigerace117]

Can't defend your argument with specifics so you point to "the whole thread".

So funny.

Just as funny as you gleefully talking about how you "won't miss" McCain when he dies, yet trying to exploit him to use as a political tool.