School Shootings: The 'Elephant in the Room'

[xMathFanx]

More projection, I see. In your own words:

"The girl who has gained fame for moralizing to all of the Nation openly admitted in a highly public forum that she and much of the rest of people in school intentionally ostracized him as a means of 'social punishment' for being a 'weirdo'--for, at minimum, 5-6 years (when he was only 19 years old--hence, a lifetime)."

And as I already demonstrated, the premise the shooting victims were bullies was a disgusting lie just to vilify kids for holding opinions you don't like.

@Cardinal

First, I obviously stand by my statement--as it is accurate.

Now, your partisan membership has clearly fogged your glasses to the point you can no longer distinguish a square from a circle.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

The new right wing narrative is that the 17 murdered kids were bullies and Cruz is the real victim here.

I'm amazed that I still have the capacity to be surprised by how low Republicans will continue to lower the bar. You'd think I would have learned by now.

Someone doesnt grow to hate the society around them on accident. Noone is giving him an excuse, they are searching for a problem

 

[Cardinal]

@Cardinal

First, I obviously stand by my statement--as it is accurate.

Now, your partisan membership has clearly fogged your glasses to the point you can no longer distinguish a square from a circle.

So you stand by a statement I showed to be false in post #61. You might want to check out the partisan fog on your own glasses. You revealed in post #52 that you started this thread because you blame the victims for Cruz's rampage, and when you were shown to be wrong you just dismissed the truth and held on to your false belief anyway. That's partisan hackery so gigantic it could be classified as an art installation.

Someone doesnt grow to hate the society around them on accident. Noone is giving him an excuse, they are searching for a problem

Read the thread. And the person who started this thread has stated quite specifically that the Parkland victims bullied Cruz.

 

[xMathFanx]

Its true when I was a kid I was bullied into oblivion. It got so bad that both the good people and the bad people started asking me "Are you gonna blow the school up? Are you gonna blow the school up?" Let that sink in. Even the good people saw me get bullied and instead of stopping the bully they choose to ask me, "Are you gonna blow the school up?" Just because I got bullied so much they started asking me this.... It got to the point to where when a kid was done bullying me the other kids would tell me "Your not gonna kill me are you? If you ever blow up the school." Like I was somehow transformed into a potential monster in their eyes JUST because I was bullied. It was just weird seeing these kids try to goad these archetypes into place.

Good thing I was a very intelligent, tolerant kid. The thought never even crossed my mind.

Now if I woulda had a dad that abused me or not felt comfortable at home who knows what my life woulda been like instead.

@dirtpoorchris

That is tragic, and I am sorry you had to go through that. I also think it is sad that the standard for 'good person' had to be lowered so much as to include those people (you discussed), since truly morally upright & courageous people are so rare. Again, this is something that should be taught in schools, as part of becoming 'mature', 'developed', etc. should include strength of moral fiber.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

No one is "using those kids". They came up with their own opinions. You're just butthurt towards them because they have an opinion that differs from yours and you can't have that so you want to discredit them any way you can.

Ya and now they have been in national news interviews for weeks. Someone is obviously using them.

 

[Trinnity]

It's a political topic. Has been for a very long time. Stop being pissed just because everyone doesn't agree with you.

I don't care if you don't agree with me. You don't get to outlaw guns. Not worried.

It's just a matter of differing opinions. Opinions that are news. All you are doing here is growing the size of your snowflake because you can't handle differing opinions.

Another angry liberal. Shocked, I am.

Here... let me help you with that word you aren't using correctly...

Hypocritical

Read it yourself, it's your problem, not mine.

 

[Tigerace117]

What post numbers?

Throughout the thread.

 

[Tigerace117]

@Tigerace

Okay--you clearly do have substantial issues with reading comprehension. That would also explain why your writing is so poor.

What a surprise, you can't handle being called on your bull**** so you whine endlessly about being exposed.

Your entire premise is false.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

This post explains more than you realize.

But the real thing that kids need to learn about in dealing with bullies is 'their own feelings.'...not more violent methods to retaliate.

I dont disagree that there are times when a kid needs to stand up to a bully but when it is written, like on social media, that is a very different thing than a school grounds confrontation.

Note: yes, 'their feelings' is pretty sappy but it's true...what we are seeing from these POS losers is that this is the only way they decided that they could resolve their problems. Thru violence. Then need to learn to control their anger and to understand that disappointments, failures, lost girlfriends, are all part of life and how to deal with that.

Thats not true man some kids get bullied farrrrrr more than others. To the point where its considered torture. And even the teachers get in on it.

 

[trixare4kids]

You're asking the real questions here, and I thank you for it.


But many won't like it.... those are hard questions without simple sound-bite solutions, and many people don't appreciate having these things pointed out.

We should call you Goshin, the Prophet. By the looks of this thread, you couldn't be more correct.

 

[poweRob]

Ya and now they have been in national news interviews for weeks. Someone is obviously using them.

You think perhaps because right-wing powerhouses are attacking them with their radio programs, tv shows and national psersonalities while these kids are kicking there collective asses with a twitter account might cause it to be reported?

 

[xMathFanx]

And the person who started this thread has stated quite specifically that the Parkland victims bullied Cruz.

@Cardinal

Yes--are simply refusing to watch the public admission?

Again, I should not have to keep explaining--that in no way justifies homicidal behavior of the type the shooter engaged in. And yet, it certainly is a significant variable in the equation which explains how/why this event happened. That is rather obvious, I would think--if people are willing to honest about it.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

@Lursa

If his family truly cared for him, he would have been pulled out of school for a homeschooling option. Nobody should be expected to endure that level of abuse, most especially when other solid options are readily available.

The problem is that noone is witness. The parents cant truly KNOW how bad it is. They can only get it word of mouth and assume. Most kids that are bullied feel they cant even tell their parents about it because it wont actually solve the problem, just focus attention on it for a little bit and then everyone will forget. And now the victim will be targeted even harder because he tattletelled. Orrrr. The parent is abusive too. So the kid gets zero comfort, even at home.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

I did watch the video. It's one third of her full statement and one fiftieth of the whole story.

Her full statement:

"So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities again and again. We did, time and time again. Since he was in middle school, it was no surprise to anyone who knew him to hear that he was the shooter. Those talking about how we should have not ostracized him, you didn’t know this kid. OK, we did. We know that they are claiming mental health issues, and I am not a psychologist, but we need to pay attention to the fact that this was not just a mental health issue. He would not have harmed that many students with a knife."

And a bit more about the poor victim Cruz and these awful, awful bullies that ostracized him:

Robinson wrote that she first encountered Cruz when he hit her in the back with an apple and displayed no remorse. A year later, she recalled, she was assigned to tutor him as part of the school’s peer counseling report:

"Being a peer counselor was the first real responsibility I had ever had, my first glimpse of adulthood, and I took it very seriously.

Despite my discomfort, I sat down with him, alone. I was forced to endure his cursing me out and ogling my chest until the hourlong session ended. When I was done, I felt a surge of pride for having organized his binder and helped him with his homework.

Looking back, I am horrified. I now understand that I was left, unassisted, with a student who had a known history of rage and brutality."

Suggesting that Cruz’s issues could have been remedied by being “loved more by his fellow students,” Robinson wrote, represented both a fundamental misunderstanding of mental health and a dangerous idea. “It is not the obligation of children to befriend classmates who have demonstrated aggressive, unpredictable or violent tendencies,” she said. “It is the responsibility of the school administration and guidance department to seek out those students and get them the help that they need, even if it is extremely specialized attention that cannot be provided at the same institution.”

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-gonzalez-admit-bullying-school-shooter/

Everything about your position and this thread is built on a lie.

And thanks for finally admitting what your thread is really about.

Wow so the parents ostracized him and then blame gun control.... What ****ing douchebags.

 

[poweRob]

I don't care if you don't agree with me. You don't get to outlaw guns. Not worried.

Who said outlaw guns? Now you are inventing a straw man to get your victimhood on.

Another angry liberal. Shocked, I am.

Read it yourself, it's your problem, not mine.

lol... I'm not the one telling everyone what a victim they are and trying to delegitimize kids who have a differing opinion than I. The anger is all yours. The yucks are all mine. :lol:

 

[Cardinal]

@Cardinal

Yes--are simply refusing to watch the public admission?

Again, I should not have to keep explaining--that in no way justifies homicidal behavior of the type the shooter engaged in. And yet, it certainly is a significant variable in the equation which explains how/why this event happened. That is rather obvious, I would think--if people are willing to honest about it.

You lied when you said they admitted to bullying Cruz.

Do you need me to repost the full quote and the corroborating evidence that you lied, or is it too difficult to go back and read post #61 for yourself? I'll assume the latter:

Her full statement:

"So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities again and again. We did, time and time again. Since he was in middle school, it was no surprise to anyone who knew him to hear that he was the shooter. Those talking about how we should have not ostracized him, you didn’t know this kid. OK, we did. We know that they are claiming mental health issues, and I am not a psychologist, but we need to pay attention to the fact that this was not just a mental health issue. He would not have harmed that many students with a knife."

And a bit more about the poor victim Cruz and these awful, awful bullies that ostracized him:

Robinson wrote that she first encountered Cruz when he hit her in the back with an apple and displayed no remorse. A year later, she recalled, she was assigned to tutor him as part of the school’s peer counseling report:

"Being a peer counselor was the first real responsibility I had ever had, my first glimpse of adulthood, and I took it very seriously.

Despite my discomfort, I sat down with him, alone. I was forced to endure his cursing me out and ogling my chest until the hourlong session ended. When I was done, I felt a surge of pride for having organized his binder and helped him with his homework.

Looking back, I am horrified. I now understand that I was left, unassisted, with a student who had a known history of rage and brutality."

Suggesting that Cruz’s issues could have been remedied by being “loved more by his fellow students,” Robinson wrote, represented both a fundamental misunderstanding of mental health and a dangerous idea. “It is not the obligation of children to befriend classmates who have demonstrated aggressive, unpredictable or violent tendencies,” she said. “It is the responsibility of the school administration and guidance department to seek out those students and get them the help that they need, even if it is extremely specialized attention that cannot be provided at the same institution.”

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-gonzalez-admit-bullying-school-shooter/

Everything about your position and this thread is built on a lie.

And thanks for finally admitting what your thread is really about.

 

[xMathFanx]

The problem is that noone is witness. The parents cant truly KNOW how bad it is. They can only get it word of mouth and assume. Most kids that are bullied feel they cant even tell their parents about it because it wont actually solve the problem, just focus attention on it for a little bit and then everyone will forget. And now the victim will be targeted even harder because he tattletelled. Orrrr. The parent is abusive too. So the kid gets zero comfort, even at home.

@dirtpoorchris

Well, exactly. That is, do you not think a person that cares about your life would be able to tell if you are profoundly emotionally distressed? If that does not register with them, then they are necessarily extremely neglectful. If they do recognize it, but refuse to empathize given the magnitude of the situation, and say 'tough it out, if they can't take--they can't take it'; that is necessarily neglectful and/or abusive. Friendship & Love are on the opposite end of the spectrum of Neglect & Abuse. If the parents/guardians do not take proper action when this is going on--face it, they don't Love the kid (and, really, had no business having kid(s)).

 

[Trinnity]

Who said outlaw guns? Now you are inventing a straw man to get your victimhood on.

How entirely ignorant.


Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment

lol... I'm not the one telling everyone what a victim they are and trying to delegitimize kids who have a differing opinion than I. The anger is all yours. The yucks are all mine. :lol:

They're kids. You're an adult. They're mush-minds, you should know better.

What did you win in the interwebz with with your yucks?

 

[Lursa]

@Lursa

Which, of course, only makes the treatment he suffered much worse. Also, the foster home should clearly be aware of what is going on and respond appropriately.

So....you didnt read any of the interviews with his current and previous foster parents?

 

[trixare4kids]

The OP is pseudo-intellectualism to disguise the fact that vilifying the Parkland survivors is precisely the intended implication, as you see right here in this thread by apdst. And all because kids want more gun control laws.

Want to try this again?

Former classmates would mock Cruz for posting pictures of himself with knives and guns on social media, according to Manolo Alvarez, 17, a student at the campus.

“They would say he looked like a school shooter,” Alvarez said.

Confessed Parkland school shooter, like others before him, left ominous signs | Miami Herald

 

[Lursa]

The media sure did not demand the authorities that dropped the ball be held to account. And if they demanded the ridiculous policy of ignoring serious juvenile crime end, I must have missed it. No, they were to busy using the kids to push another narrative.

I saw quite a bit of outrage and discussion into looking into better follow up. I have no idea if they're acting on it but by no means was this not front and center after that incident.

 

[poweRob]

How entirely ignorant.


Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment



They're kids. You're an adult. They're mush-minds, you should know better.

What did you win in the interwebz with with your yucks?

Former Justice Stevens isn't me nor is he one of those kids that this topic was about. But I understand you are desperate enough to move goal posts to keep your victim-hood mentality going.

Those kids speak rather eloquently for their age and it's scaring the bejesus out of righties. As far as what did I win? I told you... it won lots of laughs watching you trying to delegitimize kids only because you disagree with them.

 

[MrMike]

Emma Gonzalez admitted to treating Cruz like ****. She justified it by claiming, "You didn't know this kid".

Of course what Cruz did was wrong and deserves to be executed for it, but his actions don't forgive the conduct of his classmates that may have driven him to it.

I hadn't seen that. If she did do what you say (or is reported) she may indeed share in some of the conditional blame of what finally made that crazy murderer snap?

 

[Lursa]

Thats not true man some kids get bullied farrrrrr more than others. To the point where its considered torture. And even the teachers get in on it.

What's not true?

 

[poweRob]

Okay righties... you came out of the gates defending the NRA by blaming mental health. Now you guys are saying that he was mentally fine but drove over the edge by these other kids. When this tactic fails, what other excuses are you going to come up with? The grass was wet? The sun was in your eyes? What?