• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Republicans Ask Democrats To Please Leave Trump's Tax Returns ALONE

The House isn't conducting oversight, they are pursuing political ends.

One does not exclude the other. In fact, we can see clearly that the real oversight can only come from people of the opposite political side and not from minions like Nunes...
 
What you describe is redistribution, and if such socialist ;programs have been a success, you should consider redistribution at a broader level and not only age the veterans level. From other social democracies, we can see that it is possible to do it.

So you believe taking taxes from one class of people and giving them to a bureaucrat that may or may not create programs that benefit the poor is redistribution of wealth? Looks to me like confiscation of wealth from the top and giving it to a bureaucrat

Did you serve in the military? No it isn't possible to do in this country because of the size, history, and the Constitution
 
So you believe taking taxes from one class of people and giving them to a bureaucrat that may or may not create programs that benefit the poor is redistribution of wealth? Looks to me like confiscation of wealth from the top and giving it to a bureaucrat

Did you serve in the military? No it isn't possible to do in this country because of the size, history, and the Constitution

The country did far better when we taxed the wealthy heavily; far better when we didn't, which ended in a depression. Of course, you probably will blame that on the Democrats like you do everything else.
 
So rather than complain do you have a solution? Do you thinking making rich people poorer makes poor people richer?

Your question has a false premise.

How does increasing taxes cause poor people to show more initiative, drive and work harder? What exactly prevents a poor person from moving up in class, higher taxes? Does raising income taxes increase taxable income of a poor person? Solutions not more whining and complaining

The role of the U.S. Gov't is to provide for the common defense. Do you have any idea what percentage of the budget is spent on the military? As for tax cuts allowing people to keep more of what they earn has led to record tax revenues for the states and local gov'ts so why is that a problem for you? Deficits aren't caused by tax cuts they are caused by spending increase and in particular social engineering



You world view is seen through a particular lens. It's not the only lens available, and, in fact, it's one of the worst lenses available.


The huge tax cuts on the rich and corporations is causing Soaring deficits, which, ion turn, cause the government to either borrow and/or create fiat currency to make up the difference. Given that the poorer cannot hedge as well as the rich, the long range effect is to hurt the middle class and poor far more than the rich because the money to fund the government has to come from somewhere, and borrowing just encumbers future generations, and fiat currency eventually causes inflation, and given that the middle class and poor cannot hedge as well as the rich, the burden of that policy, the ultimate effect is to transfer of wealth from the middle class and the poor to the rich. It's the opposite of trickle down economics, it's trickle up economics. This is why wages are now flat, and have been for decades, yet the rich's wealth ands grown faster than inflation, and the rich's income has grown exponentially faster than inflation.

The problem with cutting entitlements is that many who need them, such as my 92 old mother who does not receive enough to live on, it will hurt her even more, and the millions like her who depend on entitlements. The only other way to fund the government other than borrowing money and/or creating fiat currency is to place a tax on where the money is, and where is it? The rich have it. That is where the money is. Giving them too big of a tax cut causes the above scenario, which is occurring now, and it's evil effects will be shouldered by the middle class and the poor in the months to come. So, instead of 8 spoonfuls of caviar, they will have to learn to enjoy only 3 or 4 spoonfuls. I think they will be fine.


You'll never grasp these things because supply side economics is based on a failure to grasp these things.


The way to create jobs is to allow the middle class to have more disposable income, middle class spending is the biggest engine of economic growth, and since corporations and wealth pay as little as the traffic can bear, the only way to raise incomes is to legislate it. This is why we need a minimum wage. Demand side economics, that is the key, the opposite of supply side.

Capitalism will devour itself if left alone to it's own devices. Socialism will collapse if left to it's own devices.

The better solution is to place the pendulum in the center. A strategic blend of socialism and capitalism. Capitalism for wants, socialism for needs. Each needs the other to be viable. This is why when the right, when the left wants more socialism, the right shouts "USSR" or "Cuba" or "Venezuela", but no one on the left is arguing for totalitarian anything. So, it's a strawman argument. As a progressive, I am not suggesting totalitarianism, which is what the USSR, Cuba, and Venezuela are.

For, in the center, that is the only place where the pendulum can rest.
 
Last edited:
So you believe taking taxes from one class of people and giving them to a bureaucrat that may or may not create programs that benefit the poor is redistribution of wealth? Looks to me like confiscation of wealth from the top and giving it to a bureaucrat

Did you serve in the military? No it isn't possible to do in this country because of the size, history, and the Constitution

I believe in the need to give poor people and especially children a decent chance. I also believe in oversight and transparency of the government which includes bureaucrats. The military is one of the biggest bureaucracies, and it was this bureaucracy which helped your father as you told us.
 
The treasury secretary isn't required to turn over anyone's tax records to Congress.

That's why the law says Congress may "request" private tax returns instead of "subpoena".

Unlawfully digging through someine private documents is a sign of tyranny. It violates the 4th and 5th Amendments.

No it doesn't. Congress has the right to see any return from anyone.
 
The presidency is not private property. Potus on assuming office loses much of his own personal privacy due to the nature of the office, i.e., it is public service. Neither is Potus exempt of the laws nor is the presidency exempt from the Constitution.

The Presidency isn't property at all; it's a job. The issue at hand, of course, is how much personal privacy a President is required to lose. The President isn’t breaking the law or behaving extra-constitutionally by not publicizing his tax returns, so spare me your little strawman here.

Emoluments clause requires Potus to disclose when the public demands it. As we are seeing a law on this will be coming sooner or later, i.e., post Trump and post Republican/Conservative control of Congress. Right wingers oppose a new law on this but that too shall pass and it too will be run out of town.

There is no law today, only your short-sighted desire. Should one be passed, any President would have to follow that law. I do oppose a law requiring a President to disclose his or her tax returns, but my opposition isn’t because I am a “rightwinger”; it’s because I believe in privacy rights. Also because I’m a huge fan of Eric Blair.
 
It is the practice and pattern and this matters in a court of law. Practice and pattern is in fact an element of many laws in bringing a cause of action, a complaint, a charge etc. In other words practice and pattern is a basis in law.

It is the practice and pattern of each candidate nominee of a major party for Potus since 1972. That is, release tax filings and do it fully, completely, voluntarily -- all in the public interest.

When there isn't a law that includes practice and pattern then what's done commonly and consistently by each player and the rationale for it tends strongly to establish the legal principle and precedent in and of itself. Even a lay person knows that what is common and regular conduct and behavior by principals is the norm and, well, the rule. It is a form of common law and common law is recognized by both judges and juries.

Major party nominees releasing their tax filings is about public affairs. It is indeed an unwritten policy, practice and pattern of the conduct and behavior of the principal actors. That is, it is public unwritten policy. You are anyway going to get a specific law on this like it or not. Which means your fighting an unrelenting rear guard action to try to get Trump off the hook is regressive. It is much closer to the Russian Way than it is to the American Way.

Oh, that's right--my respect for privacy suggests that I'm unamerican. :roll:

I'm sorry that you're so blinded by your own partisanship. I'm not "fighting a rear guard action to try to get Trump off the hook." How pathetic. I think you should try--just try--to see beyond your aversion to Trump and your ill-will because what is at issue here, at least for me, is the larger issue. Hint: It isn't about Trump.
 
The Presidency isn't property at all; it's a job. The issue at hand, of course, is how much personal privacy a President is required to lose. The President isn’t breaking the law or behaving extra-constitutionally by not publicizing his tax returns, so spare me your little strawman here.



There is no law today, only your short-sighted desire. Should one be passed, any President would have to follow that law. I do oppose a law requiring a President to disclose his or her tax returns, but my opposition isn’t because I am a “rightwinger”; it’s because I believe in privacy rights. Also because I’m a huge fan of Eric Blair.

I see a difference between protecting private citizens from the intrusion of the government and protecting the government from the intrusion of citizens. This is why I am for a law that will make it mandatory for all candidates to reveal such information.
 
Last edited:
The country did far better when we taxed the wealthy heavily; far better when we didn't, which ended in a depression. Of course, you probably will blame that on the Democrats like you do everything else.
Another opinion from a data challenged liberal, prove it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Your question has a false premise.





You world view is seen through a particular lens. It's not the only lens available, and, in fact, it's one of the worst lenses available.


The huge tax cuts on the rich and corporations is causing Soaring deficits, which, ion turn, cause the government to either borrow and/or create fiat currency to make up the difference. Given that the poorer cannot hedge as well as the rich, the long range effect is to hurt the middle class and poor far more than the rich because the money to fund the government has to come from somewhere, and borrowing just encumbers future generations, and fiat currency eventually causes inflation, and given that the middle class and poor cannot hedge as well as the rich, the burden of that policy, the ultimate effect is to transfer of wealth from the middle class and the poor to the rich. It's the opposite of trickle down economics, it's trickle up economics. This is why wages are now flat, and have been for decades, yet the rich's wealth ands grown faster than inflation, and the rich's income has grown exponentially faster than inflation.

The problem with cutting entitlements is that many who need them, such as my 92 old mother who does not receive enough to live on, it will hurt her even more, and the millions like her who depend on entitlements. The only other way to fund the government other than borrowing money and/or creating fiat currency is to place a tax on where the money is, and where is it? The rich have it. That is where the money is. Giving them too big of a tax cut causes the above scenario, which is occurring now, and it's evil effects will be shouldered by the middle class and the poor in the months to come. So, instead of 8 spoonfuls of caviar, they will have to learn to enjoy only 3 or 4 spoonfuls. I think they will be fine.


You'll never grasp these things because supply side economics is based on a failure to grasp these things.


The way to create jobs is to allow the middle class to have more disposable income, middle class spending is the biggest engine of economic growth, and since corporations and wealth pay as little as the traffic can bear, the only way to raise incomes is to legislate it. This is why we need a minimum wage. Demand side economics, that is the key, the opposite of supply side.

Capitalism will devour itself if left alone to it's own devices. Socialism will collapse if left to it's own devices.

The better solution is to place the pendulum in the center. A strategic blend of socialism and capitalism. Capitalism for wants, socialism for needs. Each needs the other to be viable. This is why when the right, when the left wants more socialism, the right shouts "USSR" or "Cuba" or "Venezuela", but no one on the left is arguing for totalitarian anything. So, it's a strawman argument. As a progressive, I am not suggesting totalitarianism, which is what the USSR, Cuba, and Venezuela are.

For, in the center, that is the only place where the pendulum can rest.
A novel with personal opinions no fact and off topic, dismissed

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
I believe in the need to give poor people and especially children a decent chance. I also believe in oversight and transparency of the government which includes bureaucrats. The military is one of the biggest bureaucracies, and it was this bureaucracy which helped your father as you told us.
That military bureaucracy has give you the right to make as ass out of yourself and trash the economy of the country say thank you

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
So these people also have no problem with seeing the Constitution trampled on, because that is what the House Dems are planning to do.

How is asking for tax returns "trampling on the Constitution?"
 
That military bureaucracy has give you the right to make as ass out of yourself and trash the economy of the country say thank you

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Therefore, spare me with the platitudes about the bad bureaucrats. Apparently, you do not have a real issue with them...

Sent from my keyboard using my fingers
 
Therefore, spare me with the platitudes about the bad bureaucrats. Apparently, you do not have a real issue with them...

Sent from my keyboard using my fingers
Your opinion noted as your ignorance of history and civics.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Can't wait to see the same people here lose their minds when a Democratic candidate doesn't release their returns.
 
Yes I learned about the GI bill growing up and wondered why my dad didn't use it

I see, so you don't see a problem with socialism if it helps you or your family. It's only bad if it might help someone else. Got it.


Your entire attitude destroys the basic foundation upon which this country was built

The founding fathers of this country did not believe in social Darwinism, nor the law of the jungle. They believed that it was the job of government to protect the welfare of its citizens and their access to some basic human rights, like a basic education.

"Preach, my dear Sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish & improve the law for educating the common people. Let our countrymen know that the people alone can protect us against these evils, and that the tax which will be paid for this purpose is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests & nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance."
-Thomas Jefferson

There ya go. Thomas Jefferson, the original pinko commie fascist communist, right? :lamo
 
Can't wait to see the same people here lose their minds when a Democratic candidate doesn't release their returns.

I wonder that Obama refuses to release his college transcripts, unless he does not have any or did not graduate at the top of his class like he claimed.
 
I wonder that Obama refuses to release his college transcripts, unless he does not have any or did not graduate at the top of his class like he claimed.

Where's Trump's transcripts? Or his birth certificate for that matter?

Regardless, you proved my point exactly. Thanks.
 
Obama prevented a major financial holocaust, saved the auto industry.

He didn't save the auto industry, he saved one company called GM that we taxpayers lost 11.2 billion in the deal. GM should have been let to fail, and GM would have been broken up to different buyers and the cars would keep rolling. Not one auto worker would lose a job, as the demand for cars would remain the same but some would be built under a different name than GM.

Repubs drove America into one huge ditch, and it was so deep it took one helluva struggle to get us out of it. For a financial collapse of that magnitude, there is only one other event that it could be compared to, and that was the crash of 1929, which also took a long time to climb out of.

And for that Obama borrowed 10 trillion and he presided over the worst economic recover in US History.

So, after Obama got us out of the gargantuan ditch repubs drove us into, they ( and you ) are what, you are now complaining he didn't get us out of the ditch fast enough, the ditch you guys drove us into in the first place?

You keep forgetting he borrowed 10 trillion in just 8 yrs doubling our national debt and borrowing more than all the presidents before him combined. And we get in return the worst recovery in US History.
 
I see, so you don't see a problem with socialism if it helps you or your family. It's only bad if it might help someone else. Got it.




The founding fathers of this country did not believe in social Darwinism, nor the law of the jungle. They believed that it was the job of government to protect the welfare of its citizens and their access to some basic human rights, like a basic education.



There ya go. Thomas Jefferson, the original pinko commie fascist communist, right? :lamo
Socialism that promotes individual economic growth isn't what you are promoting

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
I see a difference between protecting private citizens from the intrusion of the government and protecting the government from the intrusion of citizens. This is why I am for a law that will make it mandatory for all candidates to reveal such information.

So are you saying here that any candidate gives up all his or her rights to privacy once nominated?
 
Socialism that promotes individual economic growth isn't what you are promoting

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

We are promoting things that are in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, spearheaded and signed by the US back in 1948: the right to food, clean water, shelter, a basic education, and access to healthcare.

People who don't have those basic things cannot do much economic growing.
 
So are you saying here that any candidate gives up all his or her rights to privacy once nominated?

Yes, once you enter public service and offer to work for the public, you cannot expect to keep too many secrets from them. That's just public life.
 
Back
Top Bottom