Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline

[SLC]

Don't worry AOC is going to sell her herd of unicorns to help finance the Green New Deal.

 

[upsideguy]

1) Whacko's like AOC

2) The Democratic party is self destructing before our very eyes....Warren, AOC, Schiff, Virginia, Russian/Trump collusion officially debunked etc.

3) Do we really want to talk about polls?

4) The Dems have gone too far too the left. Socialism will be the buzz word in 2020. Socialism....Not good!

5) The wall will get built and the results will show it's value.

6) 88% of independents loved the SOTU.

7) The left's hypocrisy will be revealed regarding the wall and racism and sexual assault.

8) Betting against Trump is like betting against the Patriots. Have you not learned your lessen?

Interesting, a whole lot of hypotheticals that stand without foundation or worse, based on complete delusion. You spend too much time on right wing political porn sites for us to have much of a reasoned discussion. I will point out that I backed up my foundations, you offer none for yours. Russian/Trump collusion "officially debunked".... that's alternate reality territory. You got a cite for that one?

As to polls, perhaps you are being critical of pollsters underestimating the Blue Wave. These things happen in election polls, which are the something as opinion polls. Perhaps I could at least educate you on the difference.

OK, another person that does not know the difference between an election poll and an opinion poll..... so, you get my new boiler plate explanation....

Polling is a science. It is a combination with a hard science (mathematics) and a soft science (psychology/sociology). It is well tried and proven out over the years. Let me help you understand the difference between the statement that nearly 60% of all Americans think Trump is unfit for office and your perception that the polls got it wrong in 2016.

1) there is a big difference between an election poll and an opinion poll. What I cited is an opinion; what you cited was an election poll. An election poll is an opinion poll AND a projection of turn-out. Where election polls typically fail is on projection turn-out, not the opinion side. Projection turnout attempts to predict human behavior on a specific future date. That behavior can ultimately be affected by weather, election management issues, which are outside the purview of the survey.

2) Election polls also are dynamic because you are measuring as of a date certain using historic data. There are underyling shifts that aren't always caught.

3) A presidential election poll consists of 51 election polls. Polling in most states is reasonably sketchy. Trump won an electoral victory by winning a couple of states by less than 1 point.

4) The final polling of the 2016 election had Hillary up by 3 points nationally, she won by 2 points.. pretty much spot on.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

5) Fivethirtyeight.com, the gold standard of poll aggregation, gave Hillary a 67% chance of winning. If the weatherman says there is a 33% chance of rain and it rains, was he wrong? If the weatherman says there is a 10% chance of rain and it rains, was he wrong?

6) Turn-out in the 2016 election was far, far less than forecasted.

The opinion portion of the 2016 election poll with spot on; the turnout forecast (the hard part) was the bust (see #4).
....

But, back to the main point. You failed to give us a clear, coherent, fact-based argument that delineated Trump's path to victory in 2020..... meanwhile, soak in the across the country erosion of Trump support.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-trumps-popularity-is-holding-up-by-state/

He won by 80,000 votes in 3 states. His popularity has fallen. He doesn't have enough margin to work with. There is no realistic path.

 

[Media_Truth]

Let's start with the comprehensive high-speed rail system. I know there have been numerous studies on corridors in this area. Let's bring them to fruition nationwide. We spend so damn much public money on roads. Screw that...

 

[Sandokan]

The Green New Deal Outline read like a propaganda pamphlet, “A Redder Shade of Green” (https://climateandcapitalism.com/2017/06/26/redder-shade-intersections/). In the article, “Angus points out that socialists have to learn to relate to these movements to bring about the change we need and that this can be part of the root towards fundamental social change. As he says, if we can’t stop an oil pipeline, we won’t overthrow capitalism.”

Heil Green New Deal! Like the watermelon, green on the outside, red on the inside.

Green is the new red. You need to look behind the promises of the advocates of The Green New Deal. According to their agenda they want to save the world from global warming, but their true purpose is to redistribute wealth through environmental policies and weakening Capitalism. Their aim is total control of the U.S. economy. It is nothing more than a Trojan horse for socialism, to destroy U.S. capitalist success. History teach us that failure of capitalism like a financial crisis is even much better than the success of socialism of equal sharing of poverty.

 

[zimmer]

Welcome to the new age of politics, everybody:

Although it's just an outline it's a huge step forward to move the conversation in the right direction. Yes there are some problems, but I agree with about 90% of this proposal and if all you do is nit-pick it, then I assume you agree with 90% of it too! :mrgreen:



Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline


If she just gets some of this passed and conventional thinking says she just might pull it off. She'll be on equal playing field with the President of the United States in terms of legislative deals. Trump's comprehensive tax reform plan is the only thing even remotely comparable to this that he's done or thought of.

It’s wonderful to have the mental retardation of the Left on full display.

I’ve wished the Socialists of America Partei (SAPs) would be honest about their ideas and plans. That’s the beauty of Sandy Cortez... she’s laying out the Left’s idiocies for all to see.

For that I’m thankful and grateful.

 

[zimmer]

Enter Democrat Presidential Candidate... Retardicus:

“Retardicus”* Booker was caught on camera today, warning Democrats to buy into the green scam or face serious consequences. During his impassioned speech, the Democrat who is known for imaginary friends and tall tales, compared ignoring the consequences of the controversial theory of man-made climate change to never attempting to save Jews from the Nazis or never attempting to place a man on the moon.

WATCH: “SPARTACUS” BOOKER Says Adopting “New Green Deal” Is Same As Defeating Nazis...Putting A Man On The Moon * 100PercentFedUp.com

https://mobile.twitter.com/GOPChairwoman

Watching Democrats commit political suicide is so enjoyable... ROTFLOL...

*Editor’s improvements in red.

 

[Harshaw]

So AOC and her staff have been going around claiming that conservatives have been flat out lying about her proposal.

For example, a point in contention is that it calls for "economic security" for people "unwilling to work." "All" of them.

Her policy advisor said so to Tucker Carlson:

She retweeted that segment:



And yet, here's NPR with the goods:



Here's the cached version of her own website:

From which, of course, her proposal outline has disappeared.

 

[Lakryte]

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about what this Green New Deal Proposal is. A common criticism is it isn't specific enough, or doesn't say where money will be spent, etc. as if it is an appropriations bill. But it isn't that. It is a broad framework of goals for future legislation to achieve - a set of guiding principles and values to guide more substantial bills.

 

[Lakryte]

My idle thoughts and remembrances:
-Speedy trains as an alternative to air travel work better in the east coast where cities are closer together, or in a much used route like I assume Chicago-St. Louis might be. Out here in California Gov. Brown's train seems strange as an alternative to SF-LA flights, unless one thinks that California's Central Valley from Fresno (or even Stockton) to Bakersfield might look like the the area south of San Francisco, a row of cities w/o discernible borders. Given our history of growth in the state, not a dumb bet.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Many high speed rail systems around the world connect cities that are just as far apart from each other as SF is to LA. For example, in Spain Madrid and Seville are connected by a HSR line, the distance between the two cities being 331 miles. It then continues another 75 miles to a smaller city(Cadiz). SF to LA is about 385 miles, which seems pretty similar to me.

 

[Nickyjo]

So AOC and her staff have been going around claiming that conservatives have been flat out lying about her proposal.

For example, a point in contention is that it calls for "economic security" for people "unwilling to work." "All" of thnnnem.

Her policy advisor said so to Tucker Carlson:

She retweeted that segment:

View attachment 67250130

And yet, here's NPR with the goods:

View attachment 67250126

Here's the cached version of her own website:

From which, of course, her proposal outline has disappeared.

What did that clause mean? I assume she deleted it with good reason. What do you think of the rest of her proposal?

 

[Harshaw]

What did that clause mean? I assume she deleted it with good reason. What do you think of the rest of her proposal?

The clause is pretty self-explanatory; it (in part) seeks to "guarantee" "economic security to all who are . . . unwilling to work."

Not just the clause disappeared. The entire outline for the plan disappeared.

The rest of her plan (such as it is) is pretty much insanity.

 

[Harshaw]

So, as of a few hours ago, AOC's official spin is that the FAQ documents were "doctored."

 

[Fenton]

So, as of a few hours ago, AOC's official spin is that the FAQ documents were "doctored."

View attachment 67250150

It shows you just how much contempt these people have for their own supporters.
They obviously think their supporters are complete morons

 

[Fenton]

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about what this Green New Deal Proposal is. A common criticism is it isn't specific enough, or doesn't say where money will be spent, etc. as if it is an appropriations bill. But it isn't that. It is a broad framework of goals for future legislation to achieve - a set of guiding principles and values to guide more substantial bills.

It was specific enough to receive wide spread criticism to the point where it had to be removed from her website.

Even as a broad framework ( it was very specific ) it came off as sophomoric, as something that someone in grade school would have come up with

 

[exoplanet]

So, as of a few hours ago, AOC's official spin is that the FAQ documents were "doctored."

View attachment 67250150

or that it was DRAFT. Did you even read this?

 

[Harshaw]

or that it was DRAFT. Did you even read this?

I, in fact, did.

 

[exoplanet]

The final version, seeks to "ensure" rather than "guarantee" economic security to "all people of the United States". The best explanation for how this would happen at the moment is by guaranteeing a living wage job. I'm not sure how this would be guaranteed, but the scope of the projects outlined certainly sound like a lot of jobs. How the wages are paid, isn't clear. Presumably it is through a tax on wealthy individuals and profitable corporations. Although there is also talk about "financing" and "investing" which suggests low interest loans could be involved as well.

Keep in mind that in some ways, we already provide economic security to those "unwilling" to work through FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act). Presumably people could be working instead of taking care of their ailing grandmothers, but overall, but maybe that isn't such a bad thing for society. I would venture that having gainful employment isn't the only way to contribute to society and not every exchange of labor needs to be directly monetized. Other worthwhile alternatives could include going to school, or volunteering.

It's possible that she had in mind something like a Universal Basic Income, which oddly enough is supported by Mark Zuckerberg (a guy would presumably be hit pretty hard by any new wealth taxes), then decided to fight that fight another day. I don't think it's quite the time for UBI yet, but we will be there eventually. Artificial Intelligence creates quite a different threat to a human's ability to be useful than mere machines.

 

[exoplanet]

I, in fact, did.

So you chose to mischaracterize her remarks then?

 

[Harshaw]

So you chose to mischaracterize her remarks then?

I didn't.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

If we made 1600 buildings a day green we could have them all green by 2030. This assumes no more building in the next ten years.

We could also go with more modest proposals and try for starting greenovation on 160 buildings a day, or sixty a day.
Still beats pretending we don't need to do anything.

 

[Nickyjo]

The clause is pretty self-explanatory; it (in part) seeks to "guarantee" "economic security to all who are . . . unwilling to work."

Not just the clause disappeared. The entire outline for the plan disappeared.

The rest of her plan (such as it is) is pretty much insanity.

I suspect that people who assume that human caused warming exists and is problematic will accept her memo as a series of suggestions, some of which have merit, some not. Those who don't accept theory will be subject to the Ocasio Obsession and mock everything she does, ignoring the fact that the notion of a green new deal has been around awhile.

And the notion of a guaranteed annual income is as old as Nixon. He first suggested it during his first term I believe: $2400 for a family of four.

 

[Perotista]

Welcome to the new age of politics, everybody:

Although it's just an outline it's a huge step forward to move the conversation in the right direction. Yes there are some problems, but I agree with about 90% of this proposal and if all you do is nit-pick it, then I assume you agree with 90% of it too! :mrgreen:



Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline


If she just gets some of this passed and conventional thinking says she just might pull it off. She'll be on equal playing field with the President of the United States in terms of legislative deals. Trump's comprehensive tax reform plan is the only thing even remotely comparable to this that he's done or thought of.

There seems to be a growing number of Americans very unhappy with Trump's tax cuts. Seems refunds are way down and more people owe taxes this year than last.

Average Tax Refunds Down 8.4 Percent As Angry Taxpayers Vent On Twitter

 

[exoplanet]

I didn't.

Must be a reading comprehension fail on your part then. Try re-reading.

 

[Harshaw]

I suspect that people who assume that human caused warming exists and is problematic will accept her memo as a series of suggestions, some of which have merit, some not. Those who don't accept theory will be subject to the Ocasio Obsession and mock everything she does, ignoring the fact that the notion of a green new deal has been around awhile.

And the notion of a guaranteed annual income is as old as Nixon. He first suggested it during his first term I believe: $2400 for a family of four.

Well, if the nonsense in that little manifesto is your cup of tea, so be it.

 

[dobieg]

I saw this somewhere else and thought it was pretty amusing.


"Having an AOC moment will replace the "blonde" jokes"


She means well but like most who live in the world of unicorns and fairy tales, she could use a little ritalin to settle down.